[nabs-l] question about independence

Mon Mar 3 21:31:22 UTC 2014

I actually did use LCB training to my advantage when a prospective
landlady questioned how I would keep the place clean. I told her that
I had been expected to keep my apartment clean at LCB when they did
inspections and I did so successfully. Fortunately, she offered me the
place. Later I found out that her previous tenant (sighted) was very
messy. She thanked me many times for keeping the place clean and
encouraged me to keep the place when my husband-to-be moved in.

Arielle

On 3/3/14, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> RJ,
> I beg to differ. While they m may not care which center you obtained your
> training, a sighted person close to you will care about your well being and
>
> independence. Doing things for someone day in and day out gets tiring.
> With training someone can do it themselves. Many sighted people will be glad
>
> you can do it yourself, and not inconvenience them. Sometimes the help the
> person offers us is inconveneint to them, yet they do it because they do not
>
> feel we can do for ourselves. but with more training we show we can.
>
> So they will care then. it transforms our image the more we can do on our
> own.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 3:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about independence
>
> Sighted people do not care wheather or not you've been to CCB, LCB, or
> blind
> inc. They want action and not just talk. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 3:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about independence
>
>
>> Ol' sighty cares how we do things when considering us for employment, or
>> entering into a contract with us, or deciding whether their kids can sleep
>>
>> over with our kids under our supervision, etc, etc, etc. I had a would-be
>>
>> landlord deny me housing once because he didn't understand how I would
>> climb the stairs into the house, or write a check for the rent, or keep
>> the place clean unassisted by a caregiver. I think if help isn't needed,
>> it's valid to say so and then demonstrate so in hopes of creating one less
>>
>> ignorant person to make life harder for the rest of us. Accept help if you
>>
>> need or want it, but don't do it simply because you don't think it leaves
>>
>> an impression on sighted folks. That seems irresponsible. .
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 3, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning, Antonio,
>>>
>>>        I'm glad you shed that chip from your shoulder, too! In my
>>> experience, sighted people are most impressed by what they see and  not
>>> so much by what someone is lecturing them about regarding their
>>> particular special interest. So, I tend toward yes, accepting more help
>>> from sighted people than probably do you and your Federationist peers.
>>> Also, Antonio, in the end, someone's actual means of achieving don't
>>> matter to l' Sighty. I feel the Federation loses sight of this, as well.
>>>
>>> Ol' Sighty cares not how we do something. All that tends to matter to
>>> them is that we do it. If you have a sighted person help you, then so be
>>>
>>> it It doesn't matter, in the end.
>>>   It's okay for me, though. I am a people person, finding it much more
>>> fulfilling to interact with people than try proving some usually abstract
>>>
>>> point about what blind people are able or unable to do. In this way,
>>> blind person can just recruit a shoulder (I walk sighted guide simply by
>>>
>>> grabbing a shoulder. This way, you glide seamlessly over that awkward
>>> moment in which ol' Sighty and you try to figure out who is supposed to
>>> grab who's arm.) I appreciate how you said people need to travel in
>>> whichever way works best for them. It is not only about blinks. There are
>>>
>>> others inhabiting this earth, with their own special interests and
>>> philosophies. I feel like those wrapped up in Federationism lose sight of
>>>
>>> this reality.
>>> loving, for today, Car08:58 AM 3/3/2014, you wrote:
>>>> Our opinion matters a great deal, since we are a Community that talks
>>>> about independence as a core of our philosophy.
>>>>
>>>> What I think about another's approach to independence, and how they deal
>>>>
>>>> with the public will very likely determine how we interact, how close
>>>> friends we are, and how highly we might regard that person in our social
>>>>
>>>> groups.
>>>> This is an interesting question that bears no right answer. We may
>>>> choose to refuse help in such a way that puts people off. That is okay
>>>> at times if that is how we feel at the time, as Arielle said. If I feel
>>>>
>>>> like taking someone's arm to deal with navigating through tight
>>>> quarters, that is my own call to me. Instead, if I feel like dealing
>>>> with the same environment on my own, independently if you will, someone
>>>>
>>>> will have a perception of that.
>>>>
>>>> As a matter of fact, someone will have a perception of everyone know
>>>> matter what they do. If one day I want to deal with airports on my own,
>>>>
>>>> and another day I choose to accept more assistance, there is nothing
>>>> wrong with my approach on either day.
>>>>
>>>> If sometimes a stranger grabs me by the jacket to guide me down the
>>>> stairs, you bet I will do something about it. I don't want to lose my
>>>> footing, and tumble down because this person is dragging me over. I may
>>>>
>>>> not want help, need help, and so I will refuse it, turn it down, and
>>>> will do so very firmly.
>>>>
>>>> If someone offers me to guide me by the cane, yes by the king, pulling
>>>> it I had of me, I may turn this scenario into a great opportunity to
>>>> educate someone about proper techniques of sighted guide.
>>>>
>>>> Most likely I will ask to follow the person by the elbow not because
>>>> they need to learn something, but because I need to get somewhere, and
>>>> quick.
>>>> Most times I will be put off, and endangered by losing control of how I
>>>>
>>>> interact during travel, and keep myself safe.
>>>>
>>>> But there have been a handful of times when I was cool with traveling a
>>>>
>>>> short distance guided by the cane direction.
>>>>
>>>> If there are no steps to worry about, and I am not worried about safety,
>>>>
>>>> I will be guided by Cain.
>>>>
>>>> Mostly when this happened, there work some cultural differences between
>>>>
>>>> me, and the guy.
>>>>
>>>> Consider the Muslim woman who could not have contact with males. She
>>>> offered to help me, and explained her situation. She guided me by Cain,
>>>>
>>>> and I got to where I was just fine. And she wasn't in any spiritual
>>>> trouble from that.
>>>>
>>>> We are always being observed by the public. How we behave matters. How
>>>> we feel very safe from time to time, they today, situation to situation.
>>>>
>>>> It changes with time also.
>>>>
>>>> But even if you have a day when everyone is doing what you think is the
>>>>
>>>> right way to interact with the blind, you could be annoyed with
>>>> something or another.
>>>>
>>>> I remember one day traveling in the city, and being asked over, and
>>>> over, and over by different people at different places at different
>>>> times if I needed help getting somewhere. I wasn't sure how to think
>>>> about this after the 20th time. Do I look that lost?
>>>>
>>>> That day, I had the choice to be stern, say no, and turn away from help,
>>>>
>>>> or I could smile, say no, and continue on.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad I chose to take the chip off my shoulder that day.
>>>>
>>>> Antonio
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > If you didn't need his help and didn't really want it, then what you
>>>> > did is fine. Why does our opinion matter?
>>>> >
>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Mar 1, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Mohamed <malhajamy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi all, I have a question about independence.  Earlier, someone
>>>> >> brought up the what is independence thread.  That reminds me of
>>>> >> something.  So, this friday, I was in a cab.  I go to school by
>>>> >> taking cabs.  So, this driver in  particular, he wanted to help me
>>>> >> with practically everything.  Putting my stuff in, opening the cab's
>>>> >>
>>>> >> door, getting into the school, everything.  This is what I'm
>>>> >> wondering.  When is it best to not accept help, and when should I ask
>>>> >>
>>>> >> for help? In this situation, should I have accepted help? Or should I
>>>> >>
>>>> >> have done what I did, and politely said no?
>>>> >> Thanks.
>>>> >>
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