[nabs-l] question about independence
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at comcast.net
Wed Mar 5 06:38:34 UTC 2014
I used to be all about "blending" in until it miandered across my
understanding that, if this human experiment has room for everyone
then, why not represent for the blind people? Why play an
instrumental actor in the denial of blind people's right to "live" in
the "world"?"
I presume you are talking about these sorts of discussions that are
held at places like the Louisiana Center for the Blind. These types
of training facilities believe that teaching blind people to blend in
with others is part of the rehabilitation process. Each teacher and
each center has a different idea of what that means. My idea of
blending in tends to be a little more liberal than some. But that is
typical of my attitudes generally and these attitudes reflect in the
way I teach my students. But if you want a better put rationale for
why these issues are addressed at a rehabilitation center such as
LCB, you may want to consider reading Freedom for the Blind: The
Secret Is Empowerment. It explains the five phases of good
rehabilitation in the opinion of the author. Blending in is one of
these phases.
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 4, 2014, at 8:49 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why do rehabilitation agencies feel blind people need social
> skills training? Isn't that the rehabilitation centers job? RJ
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman"
> <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 9:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about independence
> >
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> It's true that, unfortunately, the actions or non-actions of one blind
> >> person can impact how other blind people are viewed. However, I agree
> >> with Jedi that trying to take on responsibility for how other blind
> >> people are perceived is more unhealthy than it's worth. It makes me
> >> think of research showing just how stressful trying not to confirm
> >> negative stereotypes can be for members of other minority groups.
> >> I think all we can do is the best we can. We should be concerned with
> >> managing interactions with sighted people in a way that preserves our
> >> own dignity and autonomy while also allowing us to build positive
> >> relationships with others around us.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Arielle
> >>
> >>> On 3/4/14, Antonio Guimaraes <freethaught at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Very well said, Jedi. You really packaged the entire thing very nicely.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Antonio
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 4, 2014, at 12:25 AM, Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Greetings.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let me apologize in advance for any errors as I used Siri to
> produce this
> >>>> message.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have been hesitant to comment on this thread because it is so
> >>>> complicated.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think someone's level of actual independence has to be
> assessed based on
> >>>> behavioral patterns rather than incidences. If we are just talking about
> >>>> blindness skills, there is a big difference between somebody who
> >>>> occasionally takes a human guide or someone who takes one intermittently
> >>>> or situationally versus someone who takes one on such a
> regular basis that
> >>>> they do not ever move on their own volition. That can be said
> for any task
> >>>> of independence. If an individual hardly ever does something
> on their own,
> >>>> it might be rightfully presumed that such an individual may need further
> >>>> training.
> >>>>
> >>>> If we are talking about personal choice, it can be said that a person is
> >>>> independent to the extent that their personal choices stick. Also, Dr.
> >>>> Jernigan adds that independence is also a function of how much
> >>>> inconvenience is involved for the self and others. Sometimes, it is more
> >>>> convenient to do something on one's own. Sometimes, it is more
> convenient
> >>>> to get help. Sometimes, helping another person is convenient
> for someone.
> >>>> Sometimes not. These things have to be negotiated on a case-by-case
> >>>> basis.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then, there's the issue of identity. As a community, people with
> >>>> disabilities tend to prefer that the outside population sees us as
> >>>> autonomous. We also want to see ourselves as autonomous.
> Whether you take
> >>>> a human guide most of the time or choose to walk on your own,
> this thread
> >>>> seems to bind all of us. I think personal choice is wrapped up in this
> >>>> concept of autonomy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is an issue often overlooked by the disability community
> even though
> >>>> it is often of central focus. Boundaries. I have been around a while and
> >>>> have noticed that people tend to be most upset by potential helpers when
> >>>> some helper violates a boundary. For instance, when a sighted person
> >>>> insists that a blind person needs help, when a sighted person grabs a
> >>>> blind person, when a sighted person tells a blind person something the
> >>>> blind person already knows, etc. I think most people would
> find themselves
> >>>> equally annoyed or they in our place. In fact, they often do.
> How many of
> >>>> your cited friends are annoyed by backseat drivers? How many
> sided people
> >>>> are annoyed and frustrated by overbearing parents? The reason why these
> >>>> things are so annoying is because they interfere with a sense
> of autonomy
> >>>> and personal choice. Also, people do not like to be messed
> with when they
> >>>> already have a skill required to perform a task. Does any of this sound
> >>>> familiar? It should be. But for those of us with disabilities,
> the problem
> >>>> is compounded by low expectations of what we can do. These expectations
> >>>> are both internal and external.
> >>>>
> >>>> Negotiating the topic of independence is tricky. I think this
> is the case
> >>>> for most anybody with a disability no matter what type. On one hand, we
> >>>> want to honor the fact that we are capable people with a life experience
> >>>> as rich and meaningful as someone else. We believe that we can
> contribute
> >>>> to society and we want the opportunity to do it on our own terms. At the
> >>>> same time, we want to honor other people's goodwill. We don't want to be
> >>>> seen as a people with a chip on their shoulder. In my opinion, this is a
> >>>> very difficult situation to be in. We are all human and we
> will never get
> >>>> it right all the time. To expect otherwise is ridiculous.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll tell you what I tell my students about the concept of
> independence as
> >>>> it relates to all the topics discussed above.
> >>>>
> >>>> Independence is your ability to make choices and to have those choices
> >>>> stick. The most independent of us have a variety of options
> for ways to do
> >>>> something. Every situation is different and every situation will dictate
> >>>> the manner in which something should be done. Sometimes, it is
> best to get
> >>>> help. Sometimes, it is best to do something on your own. You have to be
> >>>> equally prepared to do either. If you are not, then it can be said that
> >>>> your choice making ability is limited. If you find yourself
> limited, then
> >>>> it is worth your while to learn a set of skills for using help
> effectively
> >>>> and working on your own.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you find that help is required, the best way to negotiate
> the situation
> >>>> is to view the other person as an extension of yourself. In other words,
> >>>> you need to be in control of what help you receive as only you will know
> >>>> how someone else's help will best accommodate your needs. This technique
> >>>> also ensures that you are not defined by the help you need, but are
> >>>> defined in instead by the contributions you make with and without
> >>>> assistance. It is important to remember though, that the people who help
> >>>> you are human beings. I find that whatever you can do to break the ice
> >>>> helps to alleviate discomfort and can reduce the amount of
> awkward between
> >>>> you and the person who helps you. This eliminates all kinds of problems
> >>>> including boundary crossing. When I get help, I make sure to be the one
> >>>> who initiates the interaction. I introduce myself, smile, and make
> >>>> pleasant conversation that has nothing to do with my blindness and the
> >>>> help I need. If at all possible, I try to focus on the individual who
> >>>> helps me or uncommon topics we can both discuss. If there is any
> >>>> information that I can provide that would make there helping
> me easier, I
> >>>> provided freely. For instants, if I know where a product is generally
> >>>> located in a grocery store or on the shelf, I will provide that
> >>>> information to make my helpers search easier. If there is
> something that I
> >>>> can get for myself well my helper grabs something else, I will
> if it means
> >>>> making the experience faster. A lot of folks who have helped me say that
> >>>> they learn from me about where we are and what we are doing that makes
> >>>> their job better in the long run. I feel that that's a pretty even trade
> >>>> for the help they give me.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you prefer to work on your own, that's okay too. Dealing
> with unwanted
> >>>> assistance can be tricky and none of us get it right all of the time. I
> >>>> think we tend to believe that an interaction with one of us will set the
> >>>> tone for how a sighted person feels about all of us. I have
> learned to do
> >>>> away with this notion as I find it puts more pressure on me then is
> >>>> helpful and necessary. I also find that believe myself to be
> an ambassador
> >>>> for the blind creates an invisible audience. Communication
> research tells
> >>>> us that people tend to respond more negatively to face threats
> when there
> >>>> is and audience. Face threat is any action that causes someone to feel
> >>>> like their sense of identity is being threatened. In this case, autonomy
> >>>> is in question. Remember that autonomy is not whether or not
> someone gets
> >>>> help, but whether or not somebody is able to make a choice
> between getting
> >>>> help or not getting it. No matter how we handle the situation,
> the reality
> >>>> is that sometimes, we can only do our best and except it. And sometimes,
> >>>> our best may not be a shining example of what could be possible for all
> >>>> kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with blindness.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just as we need to get rid of the notion that independence means let's
> >>>> roll and dependence all of the time, we also must do away with
> the notion
> >>>> that the individual who refuses help has a chip on their shoulder.
> >>>>
> >>>> And one more thing, it's important to recognize that, though the
> >>>> Federation has a philosophy of independence, we all express that
> >>>> philosophy differently. That said, I would be particularly careful about
> >>>> stereotyping all Federation us as dogmatic in their approach to
> >>>> independence. I have found this to be less so than not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Respectfully,
> >>>> Jedi
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mar 3, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Good morning, Antonio,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm glad you shed that chip from your shoulder, too! In my
> >>>>> experience, sighted people are most impressed by what they see and not
> >>>>> so much by what someone is lecturing them about regarding their
> >>>>> particular special interest. So, I tend toward yes, accepting more help
> >>>>> from sighted people than probably do you and your Federationist peers.
> >>>>> Also, Antonio, in the end, someone's actual means of achieving don't
> >>>>> matter to l' Sighty. I feel the Federation loses sight of
> this, as well.
> >>>>> Ol' Sighty cares not how we do something. All that tends to matter to
> >>>>> them is that we do it. If you have a sighted person help you,
> then so be
> >>>>> it It doesn't matter, in the end.
> >>>>> It's okay for me, though. I am a people person, finding it much more
> >>>>> fulfilling to interact with people than try proving some
> usually abstract
> >>>>> point about what blind people are able or unable to do. In this way,
> >>>>> blind person can just recruit a shoulder (I walk sighted
> guide simply by
> >>>>> grabbing a shoulder. This way, you glide seamlessly over that awkward
> >>>>> moment in which ol' Sighty and you try to figure out who is supposed to
> >>>>> grab who's arm.) I appreciate how you said people need to travel in
> >>>>> whichever way works best for them. It is not only about
> blinks. There are
> >>>>> others inhabiting this earth, with their own special interests and
> >>>>> philosophies. I feel like those wrapped up in Federationism
> lose sight of
> >>>>> this reality.
> >>>>> loving, for today, Car08:58 AM 3/3/2014, you wrote:
> >>>>>> Our opinion matters a great deal, since we are a Community that talks
> >>>>>> about independence as a core of our philosophy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What I think about another's approach to independence, and
> how they deal
> >>>>>> with the public will very likely determine how we interact, how close
> >>>>>> friends we are, and how highly we might regard that person
> in our social
> >>>>>> groups.
> >>>>>> This is an interesting question that bears no right answer. We may
> >>>>>> choose to refuse help in such a way that puts people off. That is okay
> >>>>>> at times if that is how we feel at the time, as Arielle
> said. If I feel
> >>>>>> like taking someone's arm to deal with navigating through tight
> >>>>>> quarters, that is my own call to me. Instead, if I feel like dealing
> >>>>>> with the same environment on my own, independently if you
> will, someone
> >>>>>> will have a perception of that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As a matter of fact, someone will have a perception of everyone know
> >>>>>> matter what they do. If one day I want to deal with airports
> on my own,
> >>>>>> and another day I choose to accept more assistance, there is nothing
> >>>>>> wrong with my approach on either day.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If sometimes a stranger grabs me by the jacket to guide me down the
> >>>>>> stairs, you bet I will do something about it. I don't want to lose my
> >>>>>> footing, and tumble down because this person is dragging me
> over. I may
> >>>>>> not want help, need help, and so I will refuse it, turn it down, and
> >>>>>> will do so very firmly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If someone offers me to guide me by the cane, yes by the king, pulling
> >>>>>> it I had of me, I may turn this scenario into a great opportunity to
> >>>>>> educate someone about proper techniques of sighted guide.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Most likely I will ask to follow the person by the elbow not because
> >>>>>> they need to learn something, but because I need to get somewhere, and
> >>>>>> quick.
> >>>>>> Most times I will be put off, and endangered by losing
> control of how I
> >>>>>> interact during travel, and keep myself safe.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But there have been a handful of times when I was cool with
> traveling a
> >>>>>> short distance guided by the cane direction.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If there are no steps to worry about, and I am not worried
> about safety,
> >>>>>> I will be guided by Cain.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mostly when this happened, there work some cultural
> differences between
> >>>>>> me, and the guy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Consider the Muslim woman who could not have contact with males. She
> >>>>>> offered to help me, and explained her situation. She guided
> me by Cain,
> >>>>>> and I got to where I was just fine. And she wasn't in any spiritual
> >>>>>> trouble from that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We are always being observed by the public. How we behave matters. How
> >>>>>> we feel very safe from time to time, they today, situation
> to situation.
> >>>>>> It changes with time also.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But even if you have a day when everyone is doing what you
> think is the
> >>>>>> right way to interact with the blind, you could be annoyed with
> >>>>>> something or another.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I remember one day traveling in the city, and being asked over, and
> >>>>>> over, and over by different people at different places at different
> >>>>>> times if I needed help getting somewhere. I wasn't sure how to think
> >>>>>> about this after the 20th time. Do I look that lost?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That day, I had the choice to be stern, say no, and turn
> away from help,
> >>>>>> or I could smile, say no, and continue on.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm glad I chose to take the chip off my shoulder that day.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Antonio
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you didn't need his help and didn't really want it, then what you
> >>>>>>> did is fine. Why does our opinion matter?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Mohamed <malhajamy at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all, I have a question about independence. Earlier, someone
> >>>>>>>> brought up the what is independence thread. That reminds me of
> >>>>>>>> something. So, this friday, I was in a cab. I go to
> school by taking
> >>>>>>>> cabs. So, this driver in particular, he wanted to help me with
> >>>>>>>> practically everything. Putting my stuff in, opening the
> cab's door,
> >>>>>>>> getting into the school, everything. This is what I'm wondering.
> >>>>>>>> When is it best to not accept help, and when should I ask
> for help? In
> >>>>>>>> this situation, should I have accepted help? Or should I have done
> >>>>>>>> what I did, and politely said no?
> >>>>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>>>
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