[nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Thu Mar 6 20:09:05 UTC 2014
I just had help from someone to drive me back to my house because I left my
power cord. I could have called a cab to do it, but it would have cost me
another 12 to 14 dollars. If there was no one around, then I would have
done so, but I used the best and quickest option.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 1:08 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
I have enough vision to serve myself at the buffet line but I still ask
someone what each of the food items is because I cannot tell.
I don't think asking for help takes away from independence. If I can get a
ride somewhere and save myself two hours of bus I am going to do it. I know
I can do it, I have done itso I dont' feel any less independent getting a
ride form my fiance or daughter. I do think it is a waste of my time taking
4.5 hours per day to ride the bus to and from school.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:03 PM, justin williams
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>wrote:
> However, just do the best you can, and enjoy yourself.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Loren
> Wakefield
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:55 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list';
> jsoro620 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> To me, if I ask someone to help with the buffett, than I am still in
> control of the situation. That is part of independence to me.
> Because of other health issues, I seldom carry my plate in a public
> restaurant.
>
> I think that sometimes a le dysfunction of the wonderful federation
> philosophy is that it makes one feel like if he or she is not a
> superstar, than you are letting down other blind individuals. Even
> cDoctor Jernigan walked with someone if it was more productive to do
> so. Independence does not mean one is a super human. If it does,
> I've failed many times and probably will never achieve it. And what
> does it say if you determination to do absolubely everything on your
> own, stops you from enjoying life or advancing in your career? Doesn't
that dreffeat the purpose?
>
> Loren
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris
> Nusbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:01 PM
> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> Dear Listers:
>
> Joe, very well said. Regarding buffet lines, sighted people in my
> experience often ask someone else to load their plate for them,
> whether a staff member or another person with whom they are eating.
> This, in fact, is a principle which sighted people tend to follow in
> many situations--they ask for help when that would best serve their
> needs at any given time, and they go it alone when that is preferred.
> I often wonder then why this is a subject with which our community
> struggles as much as we do. The object of independence for us, I
> believe, is to function on a level similar to that of our sighted
> counterparts. If this is true, are we placing unrealistic expectations
> on ourselves and others? It seems to me that in striving to be
"independent,"
> some of us expect ourselves to be *more* independent than our sighted
> colleagues. If sighted people ask for someone to load their plate in a
> buffet, why oughtn't we? Because we are blind and Federationists,
> should that make us super-independent? Just some food for thought for
> whatever it's worth.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 7:49 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> Excellent post, Arielle. I wrote on this subject in my blog. I'll post
> the relevant portion here:
>
> Speaking for myself, I don't really look forward to buffet lines.
> Independence is partially about looking graceful, and in my opinion
> there is nothing graceful about feeling around for serving spoons and
> running the risk of dipping a finger in the casserole, embarrassing
> yourself and making the other guests feel dubious about where your
> fingers may've been. There are methods to handling such tasks of
> course. You could move your hand inward over the table surface, find
> the rim of the dish and move around its edge until you find the
> utensil. I paid attention in my independent living classes. Yet
> independence is also about seizing conveniences, so you could also
> just ask someone to help load your plate and go on about your
> business.
> I feel far more confident about carrying a tray and drink to my table
> than I do about navigating someone else's logic about the way dishes
> should be laid out.
>
> I walk fast when I walk alone. In fact I experience my own version of
> pedestrian's sidewalk rage, but I feel slow and stumbling when walking
> with someone else because my attention is divided between carrying a
> conversation and stopping myself from colliding with a lamp post. In
> some cases I would rather walk with a hand on the person's elbow to
> ensure the smooth continuity of both our conversation and our journey.
> This is especially true in crowded restaurants.
>
> Something else that comes to mind is my attitude about how the rest of
> the world perceives me. As I grow older it matters less. If truth be
> told it probably never mattered enough, but there was a point when I
> wondered about the stain on my shirt or the syrup on my cheek or the
> rip in my jeans. If you saw either on a fellow sighted person, you
> would attribute it to laziness or wouldn't think of it at all. If you
> saw this on a blind person, however, your first thought might be that
> it was because the person was blind. I'd like you to point it out to
> me in the spirit of open communication. No one likes to walk around
> attracting the wrong kind of attention, but don't be surprised to
> discover that I can be every bit as careless or clumsy as you.
>
> When you see me board a train or bus, it'd be nice if you offered me
> the seat near the door. I will turn you down, but it's the thought that
counts.
> My independence will not be threatened by the same type of courtesy I
> would extend if I were sighted and came upon a blind person. To that
> end, I may not always take advantage of the discounts and freebies
> offered to senior citizens and persons with disabilities. If I don't,
> chalk it up to a desire to equally contribute to society and not because I
am an ungrateful person.
> I worked hard to be a tax payer.
>
> You can read the post in its entirety here:
>
> http://joeorozco.com/blog_facts_about_blindness_according_to_me
>
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 12:22 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> Hi all,
>
> OK. Since it was brought up here, I feel compelled to share some of my
> experiences and controversial views on how blind people should learn
> social skills. Some of you have heard this rant before in part, but I
> think it is important enough to bear repeating every few years. I
> guess I'm also curious if any of you have had similar experiences
> growing up or if the things I am about to advocate make any sense to
> others besides me.
>
> I have been blind my whole life and I was always an introverted
> person. As a child I had few close friends, read a lot by myself.
> When I did hang out with kids my age I tended to be bossy and want to
> control what we were doing. When adults came into my house and tried
> to interact with me in ways I thought were childish or silly, I would
> go to my room and read. I never was one for a lot of physical
> affection, hugging, touching etc.
> When I was growing up it was assumed that all my undesirable traits
> linked back to my blindness. So it was assumed that because of my
> blindness I had poor social skills. There were goals on my IEP
> throughout elementary and middle school that dealt with my social
> skills and my TVI was tasked with evaluating my progress. For example,
> in elementary school I would get graded on goals like "Shows interest
> in other children" or "asks others about their day". In middle school,
> one goal on my IEP was "compliments others when she likes something".
> I am not even slightly joking. My TVI would ask me every day to tell
> her how many people I had complimented that day and she wrote it down
> on her clipboard. The number of compliments I gave was expected to
> increase over time. Since I was usually a good student and I liked
> and respected this teacher a lot, I tried my hardest to give her a
> good compliment report every day, by contriving situations where I
> could compliment my family and classmates. I still don't understand
> what this had to do with my blindness.
> If I complimented people less than my parents or teachers expected it
> was because that just wasn't a big part of how I liked to interact with
people.
> Had I been sighted, I wouldn't have been graded on such a silly thing.
> She also read me passages from a social skills book as a way to teach
> me social skills.
> Eventually my TVI and I discussed this and she told me that my parents
> had really expected her to do these things and she did even though she
> knew they were ridiculous.
> When people in the blindness world talk about social skills, it seems
> they're usually referring to two things: skills at winning friends and
> influencing people (charisma, likability, popularity) or following
> social conventions like being places on time, attempting eye contact,
> etc. (what Jedi refers to as "blending in"). By the first set of
> criteria, winning friends and influencing people, Adolf Hitler had
> wonderful social skills. I think there are other social skills that
> are much more important for having lasting relationships: things like
> sharing, helping others in need, being sensitive to other people's
> feelings, respecting other people's opinions, not holding grudges.
> There are many sighted politicians who have absolutely terrible social
> skills by these criteria! These are all things that blind people can
> learn just as well as sighted people by listening to other people's
> conversations, talking about issues going on in the world, and
> actually being a part of close relationships. I think the most social
> skills I ever learned was by becoming friends with blind people who
> were willing to be blunt and tell me if I was doing something
> obnoxious. There is a lot we can learn about social interaction just
> by listening, talking and sharing with others. Reading about this
> stuff in a book, or being required to engage in artificial
> interactions with others, doesn't help build these social skills in
> the long term. Role-playing social interactions doesn't help when
> you're out in the real world and the thing you practiced feels really
> awkward and fake.
> On blending in, I do think there are certain nonverbal things that
> congenitally blind people should be explicitly told about so we can
> make informed decisions about whether or not we want to blend in. For
> example, of course blind folks should be told about which colors
> people usually wear together or what kind of clothing is appropriate
> for a job interview vs.
> the
> movies. But then, we still have the right to choose to blend in or
> not. So often it seems that blind folks are labeled as having poor
> social skills when the fact is that they've learned what is
> "appropriate" but chosen not to follow these norms for whatever reason.
> I realize now that my parents and teachers were unfortunately using
> blindness and the IEP system to try to change who I fundamentally
> was--to turn me into an extroverted, gregarious, charismatic person.
> It took a long time for me to realize that I was OK being myself, and
> that I was just reared in an environment where I didn't quite belong.
> Although I don't have tons of friends, I have great relationships with
> the friends I do have, a loving husband and co-workers who respect me,
> and I try to be the best person I can. Most of the things I learned
> to get me to this place came from my firsthand experiences making
> friends, my real discussions with others and a lot of trial and error.
> I don't think I missed out on the process because I am blind, but I
> also don't think the attempts to teach me social skills from a
> textbook were either effective or necessary.
> In closing, I hope that any good blindness center would support
> students in developing social skills--by giving them opportunities to
> make friends and have real social encounters--instead of
> indoctrinating them with lessons based on a narrow definition of social
competence.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
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