[nabs-l] Social skills and blindness

Thu Mar 6 18:07:55 UTC 2014

I have enough vision to serve myself at the buffet line but I still ask
someone what each of the food items is because I cannot tell.

I don't think asking for help takes away from independence. If I can get a
ride somewhere and save myself two hours of bus I am going to do it. I know
I can do it, I have done itso I dont' feel any less independent getting a
ride form my fiance or daughter. I do think it is a waste of my time taking
4.5 hours per day to ride the bus to and from school.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:03 PM, justin williams
<justin.williams2 at gmail.com>wrote:

> However, just do the best you can, and enjoy yourself.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Loren
> Wakefield
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:55 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list';
> jsoro620 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> To me, if I ask someone to help with the buffett, than I am still in
> control
> of the situation.  That is part of independence to me.  Because of other
> health issues, I seldom carry my plate in a public restaurant.
>
> I think that sometimes a le dysfunction of the wonderful federation
> philosophy is that it makes one feel like if he or she is not a superstar,
> than you are letting down other blind individuals.  Even cDoctor Jernigan
> walked with someone if it was more productive to do so.  Independence does
> not mean one is a super human.  If it does, I've failed many times and
> probably will never achieve it.  And what does it say if you determination
> to do absolubely everything on your own, stops you from enjoying life or
> advancing in your career?  Doesn't that dreffeat the purpose?
>
> Loren
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:01 PM
> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> Dear Listers:
>
> Joe, very well said. Regarding buffet lines, sighted people in my
> experience
> often ask someone else to load their plate for them, whether a staff member
> or another person with whom they are eating. This, in fact, is a principle
> which sighted people tend to follow in many situations--they ask for help
> when that would best serve their needs at any given time, and they go it
> alone when that is preferred. I often wonder then why this is a subject
> with
> which our community struggles as much as we do. The object of independence
> for us, I believe, is to function on a level similar to that of our sighted
> counterparts. If this is true, are we placing unrealistic expectations on
> ourselves and others? It seems to me that in striving to be "independent,"
> some of us expect ourselves to be *more* independent than our sighted
> colleagues. If sighted people ask for someone to load their plate in a
> buffet, why oughtn't we? Because we are blind and Federationists, should
> that make us super-independent? Just some food for thought for whatever
> it's
> worth.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 7:49 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> Excellent post, Arielle. I wrote on this subject in my blog. I'll post the
> relevant portion here:
>
> Speaking for myself, I don't really look forward to buffet lines.
> Independence is partially about looking graceful, and in my opinion there
> is
> nothing graceful about feeling around for serving spoons and running the
> risk of dipping a finger in the casserole, embarrassing yourself and making
> the other guests feel dubious about where your fingers may've been. There
> are methods to handling such tasks of course. You could move your hand
> inward over the table surface, find the rim of the dish and move around its
> edge until you find the utensil. I paid attention in my independent living
> classes. Yet independence is also about seizing conveniences, so you could
> also just ask someone to help load your plate and go on about your
> business.
> I feel far more confident about carrying a tray and drink to my table than
> I
> do about navigating someone else's logic about the way dishes should be
> laid
> out.
>
> I walk fast when I walk alone. In fact I experience my own version of
> pedestrian's sidewalk rage, but I feel slow and stumbling when walking with
> someone else because my attention is divided between carrying a
> conversation
> and stopping myself from colliding with a lamp post. In some cases I would
> rather walk with a hand on the person's elbow to ensure the smooth
> continuity of both our conversation and our journey. This is especially
> true
> in crowded restaurants.
>
> Something else that comes to mind is my attitude about how the rest of the
> world perceives me. As I grow older it matters less. If truth be told it
> probably never mattered enough, but there was a point when I wondered about
> the stain on my shirt or the syrup on my cheek or the rip in my jeans. If
> you saw either on a fellow sighted person, you would attribute it to
> laziness or wouldn't think of it at all. If you saw this on a blind person,
> however, your first thought might be that it was because the person was
> blind. I'd like you to point it out to me in the spirit of open
> communication. No one likes to walk around attracting the wrong kind of
> attention, but don't be surprised to discover that I can be every bit as
> careless or clumsy as you.
>
> When you see me board a train or bus, it'd be nice if you offered me the
> seat near the door. I will turn you down, but it's the thought that counts.
> My independence will not be threatened by the same type of courtesy I would
> extend if I were sighted and came upon a blind person. To that end, I may
> not always take advantage of the discounts and freebies offered to senior
> citizens and persons with disabilities. If I don't, chalk it up to a desire
> to equally contribute to society and not because I am an ungrateful person.
> I worked hard to be a tax payer.
>
> You can read the post in its entirety here:
>
> http://joeorozco.com/blog_facts_about_blindness_according_to_me
>
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 12:22 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Social skills and blindness
>
> Hi all,
>
> OK. Since it was brought up here, I feel compelled to share some of my
> experiences and controversial views on how blind people should learn social
> skills. Some of you have heard this rant before in part, but I think it is
> important enough to bear repeating every few years. I guess I'm also
> curious
> if any of you have had similar experiences growing up or if the things I am
> about to advocate make any sense to others besides me.
>
> I have been blind my whole life and I was always an introverted person. As
> a
> child I had few close  friends, read a lot by myself.
> When I did hang out with kids my age I tended to be bossy and want to
> control what we were doing. When adults came into my house and tried to
> interact with me in ways I thought were childish or silly, I would go to my
> room and read. I never was one for a lot of physical affection, hugging,
> touching etc.
> When I was growing up it was assumed that all my undesirable traits linked
> back to my blindness. So it was assumed that because of my blindness I had
> poor social skills. There were goals on my IEP throughout elementary and
> middle school that dealt with my social skills and my TVI was tasked with
> evaluating my progress. For example, in elementary school I would get
> graded
> on goals like "Shows interest in other children" or "asks others about
> their
> day". In middle school, one goal on my IEP was "compliments others when she
> likes something".
> I am not even slightly joking. My TVI would ask me every day to tell her
> how
> many people I had complimented that day and she wrote it down on her
> clipboard. The number of compliments I gave was expected to increase over
> time. Since I  was usually a good student and I liked and respected this
> teacher a lot, I tried my hardest to give her a good compliment report
> every
> day, by contriving situations where I could compliment my family and
> classmates. I still don't understand what this had to do with my blindness.
> If I complimented people less than my parents or teachers expected it was
> because that just wasn't a big part of how I liked to interact with people.
> Had I been sighted, I wouldn't have been graded on such a silly thing. She
> also read me passages from a social skills book as a way to teach me social
> skills.
> Eventually my TVI and I discussed this and she told me that my parents had
> really expected her to do these things and she did even though she knew
> they
> were ridiculous.
> When people in the blindness world talk about social skills, it seems
> they're usually referring to two things: skills at winning friends and
> influencing people (charisma, likability, popularity) or following social
> conventions like being places on time, attempting eye contact, etc. (what
> Jedi refers to as "blending in"). By the first set of criteria, winning
> friends and influencing people, Adolf Hitler had wonderful social skills. I
> think there are other social skills that are much more important for having
> lasting relationships: things like sharing, helping others in need, being
> sensitive to other people's feelings, respecting other people's opinions,
> not holding grudges.
> There are many sighted politicians who have absolutely terrible social
> skills by these criteria! These are all things that blind people can learn
> just as well as sighted people by listening to other people's
> conversations,
> talking about issues going on in the world, and actually being a part of
> close relationships. I think the most social skills I ever learned was by
> becoming friends with blind people who were willing to be blunt and tell me
> if I was doing something obnoxious. There is a lot we can learn about
> social
> interaction just by listening, talking and sharing with others. Reading
> about this stuff in a book, or being required to engage in artificial
> interactions with others, doesn't help build these social skills in the
> long
> term. Role-playing social interactions doesn't help when you're out in the
> real world and the thing you practiced feels really awkward and fake.
> On blending in, I do think there are certain nonverbal things that
> congenitally blind people should be explicitly told about so we can make
> informed decisions about whether or not we want to blend in. For example,
> of
> course blind folks should be told about which colors people usually wear
> together or what kind of clothing is appropriate for a job interview vs.
> the
> movies. But then, we still have the right to choose to blend in or not. So
> often it seems that blind folks are labeled as having poor social skills
> when the fact is that they've learned what is "appropriate" but chosen not
> to follow these norms for whatever reason.
> I realize now that my parents and teachers were unfortunately using
> blindness and the IEP system to try to change who I fundamentally was--to
> turn me into an extroverted, gregarious, charismatic person.
> It took a long time for me to realize that I was OK being myself, and that
> I
> was just reared in an environment where I didn't quite belong.
> Although I don't have tons of friends, I have great relationships with the
> friends I do have, a loving husband and co-workers who respect me, and I
> try
> to be the best person I can. Most of  the things I learned to get me to
> this
> place came from my firsthand experiences making friends, my real
> discussions
> with others and a lot of trial and error.
> I don't think I missed out on the process because I am blind, but I also
> don't think the attempts to teach me social skills from a textbook were
> either effective or necessary.
> In closing, I hope that any good blindness center would support students in
> developing social skills--by giving them opportunities to make friends and
> have real social encounters--instead of indoctrinating them with lessons
> based on a narrow definition of social competence.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
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