[nabs-l] AP statistics

Fri May 2 14:48:33 UTC 2014

Hi Lillie,

I don't know your exact situation, but it sounds like this guy is
causing significant problems for you, and not really doing much to
actually help you succeed.  My question is, is he actually performing
an essential function which is actually useful or helpful to you?  IF
the answer is no, I would kindly inform the person who handles the
contracting with the county educational services center that you no
longer need the services of a TVI, and you could be rid of him.

This happened to me in my senior year.  Until that point I kept my
TVIs around, and we basically worked on whatever I had in math since
that was a struggle subject for me.  However, in my senior year I lost
the TVI I had, and wasn't taking math any more anyway.  The teacher
they gave me was not helpful to me at all, and I thought that having
the weekly lessons in which we would do absolutely nothing beneficial
for me was pointless, and a waste of everyone's time.  She was also
very unreliable; I remember the last time she came, I waited and
waited for 20 minutes out of my study hall.  My braillist said that I
could go ahead and actually go to study hall and get some work done,
and she would come to get me if or when the teacher came.  Sure
enough, I walk back to the braille room when first period was over to
see that she had just walked in the door.  Apparently she thought I
was going to stay and complete the lesson, because she was pretty
shocked when I said, "Sorry, I was just coming to pick up some
textbook volumes.  I have to go to music theory now," and walked on to
class.  Then my braillist kindly informed her that I had said a week
or so before that I didn't feel the braille lessons were necessary
(since I had planned to do this in our lesson, but didn't have the
chance since she was late).  The funny part was that she called my mom
to complain, and my mom was totally supportive of me not continuing
with TVI instruction for my senior year, and felt that my reason for
stopping it made total sense.  It was almost like she was trying to
rat me out to my own mother, which was ridiculous since I had
obviously told my mom the lessons were pointless beforehand, and you
would think that if a TVI had a capable person on their hands that
they might want to drop them from their heavy caseload.  I still
received everything else I needed from the county, but braille was not
an issue.  My braillist provided all the materials I needed, and was
very seasoned at it after working with me for so long, so having a TVI
around was not crucial for either of us.

I think that if you are in the situation where the TVI isn't doing
anything for you, and he's only bringing you down, it would be
reasonable to get rid of him altogether.  If I remember correctly, I
don't think I had to call an IEP meeting to have the service taken
out, since I was the one who made the final call to tell the school I
no longer needed the instruction, but if you do need to call an
ammendment meeting, it should be fairly short and straight forward
with the reasons you have presented to the list.  Also, if you do need
to present reasons for it and really do nothing in your lessons, feel
free to say, "We don't really do much, and I'm not really being
instructed on anything."

HTH

On 4/29/14, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> Thank you for this. I will definitely try this over looking at four page
> Braille tables. :)
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 7:59 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> For anyone taking either AP stats or intro stats in college, I would
>> highly recommend using
>> www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs
>> to access your critical values instead of trying to read the tables in
>> the back of your textbook. I used the textbook tables when I took the
>> course ten years ago, but no matter how you have your textbook,
>> accessing those tables is bound to be at least a little annoying,
>> especially if you have a multi-volume Braille book.
>> On the Graphpad website, however, you can just select "distributions
>> and interpreting p-values" from the main page, then select "calculate
>> p, t or z from a probability" then put in your probability as .05 and
>> it will spit out the critical values for your particular test.
>> I'm sure this doesn't make much sense if you haven't taken the course
>> yet, but you can hang on to this email for future reference. In
>> addition, critical values can be calculated in Excel. I don't remember
>> the formula, but can look it up and send it to you if you need it.
>>
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>>> On 4/28/14, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Lillie,
>>>
>>> I took AP stats back in 2008-2009, so I'm sure the course has changed
>>> by now.  But I didn't have a graphing calculator, and I did well
>>> without one.  I do remember that there were these AP Stats practice
>>> materials from College Board that our class used, and I had those.
>>>
>>> Some of the units were extremely nonvisual, and others did require
>>> graphs and tables.  But the graphs aren't super complex, from what I
>>> remember.  So you could probably describe them pretty easily.  I
>>> remember AP stats being a lot of writing and interpreting and some
>>> formulas.  I had to do a lot of studying, but for the most part,
>>> accessing the visuals wasn't a huge concern.  I hope you have a
>>> similar experience without having to study as much as I did.  :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 4/28/14, Phil <philso1003 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Lillie,
>>>> Echoing what Arielle said, you can go through a Stats course without
>>>> using graphing function in graphing calculator. I didn't use it when I
>>>> took my 3 Stats courses in college either.
>>>> You might also want to ask your teacher what software if any is used?
>>>> For example, in college intro Stats courses they sometimes use
>>>> software called STATA and SPSS. There's also a software called SAS but
>>>> highly unlikely to be used in AP Stat.
>>>> Hope this helps a bit.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/27/14, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I agree. At this point you need to get your parents involved. I love
>>>>> to
>>>>> hear
>>>>> how you have advocated for yourself, but it sounds as though that
>>>>> avenue
>>>>> has
>>>>> been ineffective on several issues this year. The next step would be
>>>>> to
>>>>> appeal to someone with more authority to advocate on your behalf, and
>>>>> your
>>>>> parents are the best choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a TVI and unfortunately I also encounter the negative attitudes
>>>>> you
>>>>> guys refer to among my colleagues. The best solution I can think of is
>>>>> to
>>>>> have mor blind students go into this field. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of luck with your advocacy effort.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 25, 2014, at 4:33 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Lillie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a little confused about what your TVI is recommending. Does he
>>>>>> think you should take trig instead, or that you shouldn't take the
>>>>>> ACT? Either way I completely agree it is not his place to be
>>>>>> questioning your choice of courses. He is not a guidance counselor,
>>>>>> and even if he were, he is still bound to respect your informed
>>>>>> decisions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is that this guy has a power complex and that may be part of
>>>>>> the reason he has decided to teach blind students. I do not think his
>>>>>> actions are based on anything you have done in the past. You can
>>>>>> certainly try talking to him, but I am not sure if it will be
>>>>>> effective. It is great that your parents are supporting you because
>>>>>> until you turn 18 they are primarily in charge of your education and
>>>>>> can overrule anything your TVI does or at least can legally advocate
>>>>>> on your behalf. I would strongly suggest having your mom or dad talk
>>>>>> to your TVI about his actions and perhaps even request a meeting with
>>>>>> you and he to discuss his actions. Your TVI may not have much respect
>>>>>> for blind teens and may not listen to you but he is obligated to
>>>>>> listen to your parents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/25/14, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Arielle and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I apologize for my horrible email responsive habits again. I met
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> stats teacher today for next year. The meeting itself was good, and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> teacher seemed willing to work with me. She said that she rarely
>>>>>>> uses
>>>>>>> excel
>>>>>>> or hand graphs and instead uses a graphing calculator. She said she
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> send me a list of functions so that I could have the summer to work
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I needed to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, one thing that did not go well was my TVI. I apologize if I
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> start a new thread for this. While he did let me deal directly with
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> teacher (which surprised me), when my teacher mentioned that there
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> trig that would be on the ACT that I would need to know just as a
>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> FYI thing to consider, my TVI kept bringing the conversation back to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> ACT
>>>>>>> and math in general, and if she thought I should switch out,
>>>>>>> although
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>> had previously said that it was just a thing to consider. I thanked
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> teacher for her concern and said that I had consulted with multiple
>>>>>>> sources,
>>>>>>> and although there was some trepidation it was not going to be a
>>>>>>> huge
>>>>>>> gaping
>>>>>>> concern to me in the long run. I had spoken to my TVI about this
>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>> and he was not listening to me about the issue.
>>>>>>> I walked out of a meeting that was supposed to turn out pretty good
>>>>>>> feeling
>>>>>>> very concerned and upset; not because of the class, but because of
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> TVI's
>>>>>>> actions. I respect and understand the fact that he has concerns, but
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> addressing them in a way that isn't the best. He says stuff like "I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> think you can handle this" or "I don't think your parents know what
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> doing." Although I have my parents entire support on this, he has
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> contacted them about it. He tried to get my guidance counselor to
>>>>>>> dissuade
>>>>>>> me from taking AP classes, but my counselor sited with me. My
>>>>>>> parents
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> have agreed that I need to speak to him on Monday about how that was
>>>>>>> probably not the best course of action to take on his part and how I
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> parents have made this decision and he needs to respect it.
>>>>>>> His actions in this respect and his negative actions in general are
>>>>>>> completely destroying what little confidence I had both in blindness
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a person. I feel like I have no right to speak against him or that
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> not take me seriously no matter how I phraise anything because no
>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>> what I'm just a dumb blind teenager who knows absolutely nothing
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> capabilities or about anything in general. There are incidents
>>>>>>> besides
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> one where I have felt like I was being questioned. I do not think I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> done anything to make him question me like this.
>>>>>>> He is completely destroying my confidence and I need to salvage what
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> I have left to make him stop treating me like this. I understand
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> everyone has different ways of dealing with people, but I do not
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> whether he knows it or not, he should not be aiming to destroy my
>>>>>>> confidence
>>>>>>> or make me feel like I have to prove something to him. I understand
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> all of this is his fault and through my actions I have probably done
>>>>>>> something to earn this, but I would like to know what.
>>>>>>> I apologize for complaining here, and I am not trying to get pitty.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> plan to talk to him on Monday so I can at least try to do something
>>>>>>> constructive about the situation. He has done some good things, but
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>> things overshadow the good things he has done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Lillie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
>>>>>>> Silverman
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:10 AM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AP statistics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Lillie,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know exact answers to most of your questions, but just
>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>> you know that I've taken five statistics courses (including
>>>>>>> graduate-level) without ever using a graphing calculator. While
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>> students might be expected to use a graphing calculator and the
>>>>>>> stats
>>>>>>> functions on yours might be accessible, even if they are not, you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> definitely participate without using a graphing calculator. In fact,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> graphing is a very minor part of the course curriculum. That said, I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know what the AP test looks like, and you might have to use a
>>>>>>> graphing
>>>>>>> calculator on the test.
>>>>>>> Sometimes the graphing requirements are altered for blind students,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> may want to find out what the regular test requires and then contact
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> college board to see if any inaccessible parts of the normal
>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>> are modified (I'm guessing your TVI may not be the best person to
>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>> on your other posts).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If hand-graphing is required, I always just wrote out detailed
>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>> of the graphs. Again, I don't think actually seeing the graph is
>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>> for understanding the underlying math and interpreting results. I
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> it to appease the teacher's requirements on exams and such.
>>>>>>> You can do most of the required calculations either in Excel or with
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> web-based calculator at www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs/ Your teacher
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> not know about GraphPad, but you might offer to use that instead of
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> inaccessible software that's required.
>>>>>>> Braille Note stats functions may also work, but it depends on
>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> expected to calculate basics like means and standard deviations by
>>>>>>> calculator or by hand. In college stats we had to do it by hand,
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> standard calculator to compute square roots and other basic math. I
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> JAWS to read me the data and then used my Braille Note calculator
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> computations, and Excel will also work for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry I can't offer more help without knowing more details, but I'm
>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> consult when you have more specific questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/18/14, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will be taking AP statistics next year. I am going to contact the
>>>>>>>> teacher of the class next week, but I want to know what I am
>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>> about before I have a meeting. If anyone has  taken this class,
>>>>>>>> answering these questions would be very helpful. I am not sure how
>>>>>>>> college stats classes work, but I'd think they would be similar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1.        Are graphing calculators needed? I have the TI84 from APH
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> used it this year. Are the statistical functions accessible?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.       Is excel used? Roughly what parts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3.       What about the statistical functions part of the Braille
>>>>>>>> note
>>>>>>>> calculator? Is this used? Again, what functions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4.       Roughly are there any new Nemeth symbols introduced?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5.       Is there any reason I would have to hand-draw a graph at
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>> if I have the calculator and excel available to me?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6.       Are there parts of the course, minus inaccessible
>>>>>>>> software,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> are inaccessible?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Kaiti