[nabs-l] is there any place for schools for the blind?

Mon Nov 3 02:40:47 UTC 2014

Sami:
I understand your point, but with respect to the discussion on the
trend, yes there is a trend of people with secondary disabilities
going to schools for the blind, I saw it myself when I was at NIYSE,
so I know that firsthand.
Not everyone has a secondary disability, granted, but the number of
students with secondary disabilities was on the rise as far as I
remember when I left NYISE, and so wouldn't be surprised that that was
still the case.
Again, this is not a statement against the school, or a personal
thing, so don't take anything I say personally.
I'm only addressing your points from my own experience.

On 11/2/14, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Good evening all:
> I must say, I've also noticed the trend.
> There are several points to consider there though.
> First of all, most of these kids are treated as blind first,
> intellectually challenged second.
> This is not directly related to us, but it would be interesting to
> know how that assumption is made--e.g. that the blindness is the
> primary disability.
> The reason I said schools for the blind specifically is because there
> are schools, such as the Lavell school in New York City that is
> specially designed to provide the environment required for the
> academic development of intellectually challenged children.
> So of course I'm aware most of these kids would not be able to attend
> public school, however, when I speak of "schools for the blind" or
> "the blind" in this case I'm talking about the blind, not taking into
> account those who have an intellectual disability, primarily because
> then the discussion gets a lot harder and it would be impossible to
> talk about that on a list like this one since the intellectual
> disabilities affect different people in different ways, and cases
> would have to be analyzed on a person by person basis. (ASD is an
> example of one such group of what are generally considered
> intellectual disabilities)
> So, I meant specifically for the blind who do not have a secondary
> disability or where its mild enough they can coexist in mainstream
> society.
> As far as the summer camp experiences though, I would agree that
> something like that is definitely valuable.
> However, this discussion is mostly centered on schools that are
> specifically 12-month schools for the blind.
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/2/14, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I had Arielle's experience. I went to public and Catholics schools but
>> every summer I went to a summer programs for visually impaired. It was
>> through our public schools. I had a very difficult time socially in
>> public
>> school. I was teased daily most of my life. I am legally blind so i was
>> teased for being blind and teased for "pretending" to be blind. I was
>> miserable. Having the summer program to meet others who were legally
>> blind
>> and totally blind filled that gap. I am still friends now at age 50 with
>> someone I met in first grade at the summer program. There were time I
>> felt
>> i was such an outcast thta I wished I was going to a school for the
>> blind.
>>
>> I am in college now and I find the social situation to be much better.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> This is an excellent question and I see a few points worth considering.
>>> First, most kids who attend schools for the blind nowadays have
>>> intellectual disabilities. I'm not sure this trend is a good thing. If
>>> someone is blind and also has an intellectual disability, sending them
>>> to a blind school is treating their blindness like the primary
>>> disability when it's not. I've always wondered if the education these
>>> kids get at the blind schools really addresses their educational needs
>>> as well as a special ed program for intellectual disabilities could.
>>> It also adversely affects the quality of learning for kids who are
>>> only blind.
>>> Second, a lot of people say that a mainstreamed environment is a
>>> better place to learn social skills. That wasn't my experience. I
>>> attended public school but went to summer camp and weekend activities
>>> with local blind kids from ages 9 to 17. Like others have described, I
>>> had trouble making friends in public school. Sighted kids usually
>>> ignored me and didn't much care how I behaved socially. However, other
>>> blind kids not only were willing to be my friend, but they would tease
>>> me and give me a hard time if I did things that bothered them. When I
>>> think about my friendships now and how I interact with people, I can
>>> trace most of what I've learned back to my interactions with other
>>> blind people. For example, I had a blind best friend for several
>>> years, who eventually cut off the friendship, and this taught me a ton
>>> about how to be a good friend and keep my friendships from getting in
>>> trouble. From ages 12 to 24, all my encounters with romance, crushing,
>>> flirting, dating and breaking up involved other blind people. If I
>>> hadn't had the company of other blind people, I wouldn't have had any
>>> of those experiences to learn and grow from. I know some folks are
>>> very happy and successful without ever befriending a blind person, but
>>> I don't like the assumption that interaction with sighted people is
>>> the only or the best way to become socially competent. The best way to
>>> develop social skills is just to have social opportunities be they
>>> with sighted, blind or both.
>>> That said, I am grateful for my public school education because it was
>>> academically challenging. Unfortunately, some schools and some
>>> families still have low expectations. In these cases, a school for the
>>> blind may be needed to provide essential Braille training or to set
>>> higher expectations. I don't think the schools should pull young
>>> children to live there away from their families, and I think that most
>>> kids' attendance at these schools should probably be limited to a few
>>> years. I'd also love to see more summer enrichment programs that could
>>> help blind kids have the social opportunities I had while still being
>>> mainstreamed. I don't support closing the schools down completely
>>> because I think that if they can help even a few families who have no
>>> other resources, they are worth having.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/2/14, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> > Good evening,
>>> >
>>> >   Despite all this new fangled tech stuff, think about it, has either
>>> > our relative position within the social system, or to exceptional
>>> > opportunity really underwent all that much of a transformation? I
>>> > mean, for you to queery if blind schools even have a relevance within
>>> > I think you said today's society? Hell yes they do! Don't you agree
>>> > that if an institution say, succeeds in helping a single student,
>>> > then yes, it does have a place! Schools for the blind do in fact
>>> > serve people. As many have said, blind people with other problems.
>>> > Are you gonna deny such people access to education for a simple fact
>>> > of it's not squeezing into your model of educating blind people?
>>> > Don't mean to be overly harsh but, remember not to assume ALL blind
>>> > people are made of the same stuff!
>>> > for today, Car
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > .
>>> >>So, today I was thinking about a rather interesting question which
>>> >>came to my mind, and which I've thought about numerous times before,
>>> >>that being, the place for schools for the blind in today's society.
>>> >>A few years ago, there was a huge news story that broke in New York
>>> >>about protesters going to Lavel and NYISE (New York Institute for
>>> >>Special Ed) to speak out in support of the 2 schools, which then
>>> >>Governor Quomo I believe it was wanted to cut from the state budget
>>> >>and close.
>>> >>And that left me wondering,
>>> >>as someone who spent most of his elementary years at the NYISE, and
>>> >>the rest of my term in regular public school, finishing 4th and 5th
>>> >>grade at a local school and going on to do my entire post-secondary
>>> >>education in public schools, what exactly did I think?
>>> >>And to be honest, I don't quite have an answer myself.
>>> >>I started 4th grade with the Braille Lite and APH's Braille & Speak,
>>> >>so obviously this is quite a while back.
>>> >>But I remember in those early years I was shocked at all this tech
>>> >>that I just was not allowed to use in the school for the blind.
>>> >>Yet the lite had its problems, as anyone who's used one probably
>>> >>knows. For one thing, mine kept crashing every 4 to 7 weeks on a
>>> >>constant schedule and promptly deleting my entire file system. Not
>>> >>good, to say the least.
>>> >>But technology has obviously progressed a lot since then, wih the
>>> >>Braille Note Apex being extremely stable and solid. I've never had a
>>> >>Braille Note crash, at least never as badly as what used to happen
>>> >>with the braille lites.
>>> >>And now with the advance of technology some argue, and I share this
>>> >>point, that within a few years all we'll really need are braille
>>> >>displays.
>>> >>I mean we have JAWS, System Access, Window Eyes, NVDA, Dolfin, and
>>> >>Super Nova for Windows--Winow Eyes and NVDA are both now free, System
>>> >>Access now extremely affordable, for about $250 with a package that
>>> >>gives you way more then just a screenreader, and most if not all have
>>> >>braille display support built in.
>>> >>And with VoiceOver on the Mac and accessible versions of other
>>> >>platforms such as Linux there is no system that is not accessible, and
>>> >>if there is such a system, there are now ways which are widely known
>>> >>to make them accessible.
>>> >>Granted we still have the applications within those systems (Google
>>> >>apps for example) which can still present challenges but that's just a
>>> >>piece of what has become a mostly accessible digital ecosystem.
>>> >>So, where do you think, if anywhere, do schools for the blind fit?
>>> >>Note that this isn't a chriticism of schools for the blind--I studied
>>> >>at one, like I said, and they did have their advantages at the time
>>> >>and perhaps still have in certain circumstances,
>>> >>but given that they were chiefly in existence to provide an education
>>> >>to the blind, an education that is now for the most part accessible to
>>> >>us outside of those limits, do we need schools for the blind anymore?
>>> >>I myself don't have a position one way or another, so I'm very
>>> >>interested in hearing your thoughts on this topic.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>Jorge A. Paez
>>> >>
>>> >>LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>>> >>
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>>> >
>>> >
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>
>
> --
> Jorge A. Paez
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>

-- 
Jorge A. Paez

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994