[nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

Karl Martin Adam kmaent1 at gmail.com
Tue Feb 3 16:46:02 UTC 2015


True, though to be honest bookshare while it is an amazing 
service often has smashed words as well not to mention the 
chronic lack of page numbers.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Ausbun via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>, "National 
Association ofBlind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 16:22:56 +0000
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

	I have not ever given due credit to my university, it seems, 
for being one of the most accessible universities I have 
heard of, thus far. They have a team of processors who use a 
combination of ABBY, adobe pro and a spell checker for all 
students requiring alternative media.
	Anyways, Karl¡¯s suggestions seem to be extremely good. 
This is why I always try to get my books through Bookshare, 
just in case, if the school decides that reasonable 
accommodation does not include awesome copies of text 
material. It sounds to me, anyways, that your University is 
simply following the law to the letter. ADA specifies 
reasonable accommodation¨Cunder the common interpretation, 
reasonable is simple access. It may not be good access, but 
if you have some, then you are good to go. Of course, we 
recognize that some access is not adequate; however, it 
seems that there is nothing else that you might be able to 
do, other than to run the files through either Robobraille, 
or request from Bookshare (which, at this point in the 
semester, will take about 2-3 months before they add it to 
the collection).
IMO, PDF TXT, DOC DOCX and HTML are better than RTF; but I'm sure 
that is a preference thing.
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin 
williams via nabs-l [nabs-l at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 6:27 AM
To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

Agreed; Under the ADA, the college is obligated to make your 
books accessible.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 9:19 AM
To: Karl Martin Adam; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

They need to provide this as a service. It is part of their 
obligation under the ADA to provide you with useable, remediated 
text.
Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio 
Association of Guide Dog Users Vice President, Ohio Association 
of Blind Students Both proud divisions of the National Federation 
of the Blind of Ohio
Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com 
<mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not 
the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we 
raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations 
create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can 
live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
¡°The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse¡¯s 
ears.¡± - Arabian proverb

 On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:31 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 You're right of course that they should convert the file for 
you, but the thing is, even if they do, that won't solve your 
problem.
 The OCR software Adobe or Kursweil or whatever uses to convert a 
PDF to text has the same problems trying to figure out what 
letters are in the picture (which is what a PDF is) as the OCR 
jaws uses, so you'll have the same problems with words stuck 
together or letters being incorrect even if they convert it for 
you.  Occasionally one OCR will be better than another for a 
specific text, but there isn't really one that works particularly 
well over all.  The only way to get something that's nice and 
polished is to have someone sit and proofread after converting, 
which is extremely time consuming and tedious to do.  Schools 
should probably provide that as a service, but almost none of 
them do unfortunately.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 21:19:34 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

 Aleeha!

 you get it.
 The school, Nova, simply pushes me and others around.
 They have the conversion software to honor my request to convert 
the publisher file to a text format like RTF.
 They simply will not do it on basis of security.

 You are right they have to provide an accessible format. But who 
determines what is accessible?
 Who determines what is a suitable accomodation?

 Well, they have one way, and I like another.
 The lady coordinating alternate texts told me that it was pdf 
files
 period; pdf files were readable with jaws, acording to her, so 
there was no need to convert anyway.
 I wrote back explaining that jaws cannot read many publisher pdf 
files well; that words are often smashed together as it speaks.

 Who is this woman to tell me that jaws reads all pdf files fine 
when
 she does not use jaws herself? Has she tested it yet to find 
out? No!

 If the file fails to read, I¡¯ll call a meeting and show them.

 Oh, yes, I tried Bard. They do not carry any norton anthologies.
 I have learning ally, but as I said before, I need a text file; 
I need to find quotes for journals. I need to have a file to 
follow along in class like everyone else.

 If I have to do an audio book, it will be. but it¡¯s a 
struggle. I have to pause it to copy down quotes and its easy to 
miss stuff. Also, I¡¯m finding I cannot spell names and places 
right not seeing the text. if I had a text file, I could spell 
them with jaws.


 Anyway, thanks for your ideas. As I said, I will try the pdf 
file once they give it to me and hook my notetaker to the pc to 
try to read it with jaws and the braille display.


 Ashley
 From: Aleeha Dudley
 Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 7:46 PM
 To: Karl Martin Adam ; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
 list
 Cc: Ashley Bramlett
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

 Here¡¯s the thing. The college has to provide you with an 
accessible version of the file that will work for you, as long as 
doing so is not an undue burden on the university. There are 
plenty of ways they could make this file useable for you. 
Granted, some of the styles the author uses may not come out well 
with JAWS, but have you tried BARD or Learning Ally? Sorry for 
jumping in late on this thing and sorry if these things have been 
asked before, but it annoys me to no end when universities and 
colleges push students around and claim that something can¡¯t be 
done when it could very easily.

 Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio
 Association of Guide Dog Users Vice President, Ohio Association 
of
 Blind Students Both proud divisions of the National Federation 
of the
 Blind of Ohio
 Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
 The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not 
the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we 
raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations 
create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can 
live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
 ¡°The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse¡¯s 
ears.¡± -
 Arabian proverb

 On Feb 2, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 If you have a Braille display you can connect it to your 
computer, and it should display anything your computer can read.  
It doesn't have to be a BRF file.  Similarly, you can connect 
your notetaker to the computer and use it as a braille display or 
read files on it directly.  Many schools don't have conversion 
software to make the PDF into something else, and anyway, 
converting it won't make the words unsmoosh.  If it's really a 
big deal for you, try using robobraille or one of the other 
conversion services out there.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 17:41:12 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

 This is a copy for the list.

 Hi Lucy and all,
 thanks for the responses.

 Unfortunately, I was informed that I will get a pdf file only.
 I requested it from the school and am waiting. They denied my 
request
 to convert it to a text based format even though other colleges 
do that.
 This community college is just difficult, IMO. Its an elective
 thankfully so if I have to miss copying quotes because I cannot 
go
 find them, its not such a big deal.

 Lucy,
 I wish I could use my braille display, but I do not have a  brf 
file
 and never will.
 I checked bookshare.
 They do not have this book.

 The text is Norton Anthology of short fiction. The seventh 
edition.

 If you can assist me, I'll write off list.
 Just let me know, and which email you want me to use.

 Thanks.

 Ashley

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Lucy Sirianni
 Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 3:17 AM
 To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
 list
 Subject: re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

 Hi Ashley,

 As a doctoral candidate in English and a college-level English
 instructor, let me take a stab at answering just a few of your
 questions.

 First, I would encourage you to obtain the text in a format you 
can
 access via Braille display.  This will not only allow you to 
access
 them in class but will also make it much easier to integrate 
quotes
 into your writing, as you can simply paste them into your 
analysis.
 Many of the Norton anthologies are available via Bookshare.  If 
the
 one you're using isn't, feel free to contact me directly, as I
 frequently teach from various Norton anthologies and may be able 
to
 point you toward an accessible version of the one assigned for 
your
 class.

 Second, I would ask for both comments and handouts to be sent to 
you
 electronically.  These are very reasonable accommodations to 
request
 and ones I routinely offer students with no inconvenience to 
myself.
 Assuming you do indeed have a note-taker, you shouldn't need the
 handouts too far in advance of class, so the professor shouldn't 
need
 to alter his or her schedule of lesson planning substantially.

 I haven't worked with Blackboard or with texts in audio format, 
so I
 can't offer any input on your other questions, but please don't
 hesitate to be in touch if I can help with anything else.

 Enjoy the course!

 Lucy

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 23:24:54 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes

 Hi all,

 I?Áª taking a literature elective.  A year or so back, I tried 
taking
 one and wrote to you all about a professor not interested in
 accomodating me.
 He showed videos of the literature he used and I would not be 
able to
 access that outside class with a reader among other issues.

 Fortunately, my new professor for short story seems nice and 
willing
 to help.  No videos are used and his class is very auditory with 
lots
 of discussion; sometimes in small groups and sometimes as a 
whole
 class.

 Here are my  questions and concerns though.
 Note that I have the book in audio form now, but am looking for 
it in
 text form and may ask my dss office to get it from the 
publisher.  I
 generally have found publisher files unfriendly though as its 
pdf.
 the words are often smashed together and words are broken up 
with
 hyphens as jaws reads them
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