[nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
Karl Martin Adam
kmaent1 at gmail.com
Tue Feb 3 16:46:02 UTC 2015
True, though to be honest bookshare while it is an amazing
service often has smashed words as well not to mention the
chronic lack of page numbers.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Ausbun via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>, "National
Association ofBlind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 16:22:56 +0000
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
I have not ever given due credit to my university, it seems,
for being one of the most accessible universities I have
heard of, thus far. They have a team of processors who use a
combination of ABBY, adobe pro and a spell checker for all
students requiring alternative media.
Anyways, Karl¡¯s suggestions seem to be extremely good.
This is why I always try to get my books through Bookshare,
just in case, if the school decides that reasonable
accommodation does not include awesome copies of text
material. It sounds to me, anyways, that your University is
simply following the law to the letter. ADA specifies
reasonable accommodation¨Cunder the common interpretation,
reasonable is simple access. It may not be good access, but
if you have some, then you are good to go. Of course, we
recognize that some access is not adequate; however, it
seems that there is nothing else that you might be able to
do, other than to run the files through either Robobraille,
or request from Bookshare (which, at this point in the
semester, will take about 2-3 months before they add it to
the collection).
IMO, PDF TXT, DOC DOCX and HTML are better than RTF; but I'm sure
that is a preference thing.
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of justin
williams via nabs-l [nabs-l at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 6:27 AM
To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
Agreed; Under the ADA, the college is obligated to make your
books accessible.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 9:19 AM
To: Karl Martin Adam; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
They need to provide this as a service. It is part of their
obligation under the ADA to provide you with useable, remediated
text.
Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio
Association of Guide Dog Users Vice President, Ohio Association
of Blind Students Both proud divisions of the National Federation
of the Blind of Ohio
Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
<mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not
the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we
raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations
create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can
live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
¡°The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse¡¯s
ears.¡± - Arabian proverb
On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:31 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
You're right of course that they should convert the file for
you, but the thing is, even if they do, that won't solve your
problem.
The OCR software Adobe or Kursweil or whatever uses to convert a
PDF to text has the same problems trying to figure out what
letters are in the picture (which is what a PDF is) as the OCR
jaws uses, so you'll have the same problems with words stuck
together or letters being incorrect even if they convert it for
you. Occasionally one OCR will be better than another for a
specific text, but there isn't really one that works particularly
well over all. The only way to get something that's nice and
polished is to have someone sit and proofread after converting,
which is extremely time consuming and tedious to do. Schools
should probably provide that as a service, but almost none of
them do unfortunately.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 21:19:34 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
Aleeha!
you get it.
The school, Nova, simply pushes me and others around.
They have the conversion software to honor my request to convert
the publisher file to a text format like RTF.
They simply will not do it on basis of security.
You are right they have to provide an accessible format. But who
determines what is accessible?
Who determines what is a suitable accomodation?
Well, they have one way, and I like another.
The lady coordinating alternate texts told me that it was pdf
files
period; pdf files were readable with jaws, acording to her, so
there was no need to convert anyway.
I wrote back explaining that jaws cannot read many publisher pdf
files well; that words are often smashed together as it speaks.
Who is this woman to tell me that jaws reads all pdf files fine
when
she does not use jaws herself? Has she tested it yet to find
out? No!
If the file fails to read, I¡¯ll call a meeting and show them.
Oh, yes, I tried Bard. They do not carry any norton anthologies.
I have learning ally, but as I said before, I need a text file;
I need to find quotes for journals. I need to have a file to
follow along in class like everyone else.
If I have to do an audio book, it will be. but it¡¯s a
struggle. I have to pause it to copy down quotes and its easy to
miss stuff. Also, I¡¯m finding I cannot spell names and places
right not seeing the text. if I had a text file, I could spell
them with jaws.
Anyway, thanks for your ideas. As I said, I will try the pdf
file once they give it to me and hook my notetaker to the pc to
try to read it with jaws and the braille display.
Ashley
From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 7:46 PM
To: Karl Martin Adam ; National Association of Blind Students
mailing
list
Cc: Ashley Bramlett
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
Here¡¯s the thing. The college has to provide you with an
accessible version of the file that will work for you, as long as
doing so is not an undue burden on the university. There are
plenty of ways they could make this file useable for you.
Granted, some of the styles the author uses may not come out well
with JAWS, but have you tried BARD or Learning Ally? Sorry for
jumping in late on this thing and sorry if these things have been
asked before, but it annoys me to no end when universities and
colleges push students around and claim that something can¡¯t be
done when it could very easily.
Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio
Association of Guide Dog Users Vice President, Ohio Association
of
Blind Students Both proud divisions of the National Federation
of the
Blind of Ohio
Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not
the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we
raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations
create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can
live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
¡°The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse¡¯s
ears.¡± -
Arabian proverb
On Feb 2, 2015, at 6:17 PM, Karl Martin Adam via nabs-l
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
If you have a Braille display you can connect it to your
computer, and it should display anything your computer can read.
It doesn't have to be a BRF file. Similarly, you can connect
your notetaker to the computer and use it as a braille display or
read files on it directly. Many schools don't have conversion
software to make the PDF into something else, and anyway,
converting it won't make the words unsmoosh. If it's really a
big deal for you, try using robobraille or one of the other
conversion services out there.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 17:41:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
This is a copy for the list.
Hi Lucy and all,
thanks for the responses.
Unfortunately, I was informed that I will get a pdf file only.
I requested it from the school and am waiting. They denied my
request
to convert it to a text based format even though other colleges
do that.
This community college is just difficult, IMO. Its an elective
thankfully so if I have to miss copying quotes because I cannot
go
find them, its not such a big deal.
Lucy,
I wish I could use my braille display, but I do not have a brf
file
and never will.
I checked bookshare.
They do not have this book.
The text is Norton Anthology of short fiction. The seventh
edition.
If you can assist me, I'll write off list.
Just let me know, and which email you want me to use.
Thanks.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy Sirianni
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 3:17 AM
To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students
mailing
list
Subject: re: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
Hi Ashley,
As a doctoral candidate in English and a college-level English
instructor, let me take a stab at answering just a few of your
questions.
First, I would encourage you to obtain the text in a format you
can
access via Braille display. This will not only allow you to
access
them in class but will also make it much easier to integrate
quotes
into your writing, as you can simply paste them into your
analysis.
Many of the Norton anthologies are available via Bookshare. If
the
one you're using isn't, feel free to contact me directly, as I
frequently teach from various Norton anthologies and may be able
to
point you toward an accessible version of the one assigned for
your
class.
Second, I would ask for both comments and handouts to be sent to
you
electronically. These are very reasonable accommodations to
request
and ones I routinely offer students with no inconvenience to
myself.
Assuming you do indeed have a note-taker, you shouldn't need the
handouts too far in advance of class, so the professor shouldn't
need
to alter his or her schedule of lesson planning substantially.
I haven't worked with Blackboard or with texts in audio format,
so I
can't offer any input on your other questions, but please don't
hesitate to be in touch if I can help with anything else.
Enjoy the course!
Lucy
----- Original Message -----
From: Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 23:24:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accomodations for english classes
Hi all,
I?Áª taking a literature elective. A year or so back, I tried
taking
one and wrote to you all about a professor not interested in
accomodating me.
He showed videos of the literature he used and I would not be
able to
access that outside class with a reader among other issues.
Fortunately, my new professor for short story seems nice and
willing
to help. No videos are used and his class is very auditory with
lots
of discussion; sometimes in small groups and sometimes as a
whole
class.
Here are my questions and concerns though.
Note that I have the book in audio form now, but am looking for
it in
text form and may ask my dss office to get it from the
publisher. I
generally have found publisher files unfriendly though as its
pdf.
the words are often smashed together and words are broken up
with
hyphens as jaws reads them
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