[nabs-l] 5 Reasons Why Guide Dogs Are a Terrible Idea!

Fri Mar 20 20:21:22 UTC 2015

Kirt and others,

Thanks for understanding the title hook there. There was no malice intended in my blog. In fact, I start out by pointing out I'm in the application process to get a second guide dog, and as jarring as the objections to getting a dog are, I go back and refute my own points in the conclusion. I never intended to write just another piece celebrating the usual pros and cons of getting a guide dog, because even previous pieces about the cons of getting a con tend to be a bit superficial. In short, why be boring and spout the usual marketing soundbites? But, regardless of your feelings on the article itself, I encourage you guys to read the comments below the article, which are more insightful than my own writing and give you a wider perspective from other people. And, if you were nonetheless offended by my piece on guide dogs, I'm thinking you probably don't want to read my future piece on training centers... Good and bad, I appreciated your guys' feedback.

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 10:18 AM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 5 Reasons Why Guide Dogs Are a Terrible Idea!

Ty,
I think I really get where you're coming from here and I don't want to needlessly add fuel to this particular fire. though I have never been a dog handler myself, I think I get where you are irritated. Nevertheless, I do think Joe had A deeper aim than being purposely provocative just for the sake of being a jackass Without being overly inflammatory, I think it's safe to say there's a… false mystique about Guide dogs. Many people, sadly even many orientation and mobility instructor's, seem to think of dogs as some sort of panacea, Virtual angels from on high sent to turn even terrible travelers into confident and capable people who can pretty much go wherever they feel like without an improvement of travel skills at all. I'm not trying to say, nor do I think is Joe trying to say that guy dogs are terrible. I think he's just trying to cut through that magical aura of effortless freedom and confidence that seems practically synonymous with guide dogs to most people. To be clear, because apparently I need to be: i've seen how Guide dogs can be very helpful to already solid travelers who choose to go that route. That's fine, and I really think it's quite beside the point of this article. In pretty much every conversation I've seen about guide dogs there is so much overhyped positive emotional rhetoric… And, sometimes, the only way to really counter that is Sharp Rhetoric going the other way. I'm sure most of us have had the experience of signing up for a really really hard class and having a professor, Who turns out to be a wonderful and compelling teacher, Play the hard ass drill sergeant act for the first week or so in order to weed out students who don't really care about the course? I think that's sort of what Joe is trying to do here.
Best,
Kirt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 20, 2015, at 1:24 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> I actually read the article twice before I posted. The subject line 
> was as much garbage as the article itself. People talk about how they 
> found positive points to this and I'd still love to see any of them.
> 
> Maybe it wasn't Joe's intention, but he really brought down owning a 
> guide to a whole new level. I'm not really interested in a fight over 
> a guide vs cane because I don't really care to.
> 
> Basically what my response boils down to is this: if someone has a 
> guide, they know that their dog loves them, is loyal and in general is 
> happy to work. They have a happy furry companion next to them who does 
> some seriously amazing stuff. With that said, the only point I'll give 
> some weight is the expense bit because that is an important 
> consideration. the time is also important, but I feel like you should 
> know if you're going to devote time to your dog. the rest are just 
> pointless babble from what I can tell. I don't really know that 
> someone having their feelings hurt because people ask about their dog 
> rather than them is a compelling reason not to get a guide dog.
> 
> In the end, the choice should be left up to the user; the cane Vs 
> Guide issue is relevant to all students. I would like to make sure 
> that people have accurate information though. A post just for the sake 
> of writing a discouraging post does not really fall under that category.
> 
> When I started looking at this, I can think of reasons why someone 
> might not want a guide, so that's what I expected. Valid, well-thought 
> out compelling reasons with experience behind them to explain the pros 
> and cons of having a guide. Sadly, I didn't receive any of that.
> 
> Best,
> Ty
> 
>> On 3/20/2015 3:16 AM, Justin Harford via nabs-l wrote:
>> I agree.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 8:41 PM, Brice Smith via nabs-l 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did those of you who feel offended actually read the blog, 
>>> particularly the explanations under the heading, "Damn! Any Words of 
>>> Encouragement?"
>>> 
>>> The subject line is purposely and brilliantly provocative--the kind 
>>> that gathers almost a dozen responses in just a couple of hours. Joe 
>>> clearly understands how to use rhetoric to make a compelling 
>>> argument, and some of the knee-jerk reactions on this list to this 
>>> post were disappointing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Brice
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3/19/15, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>> Positives? You can summarize this up in 5 really fast points. I seen 
>> no positives and really, the negatives aren't huge drawbacks that 
>> were listed. I mean, if you want to tell people not to get a dog, you 
>> surely can do better than that.
>> 
>> But I'll address each of these points in turn. 1. It's expensive! 
>> It can be, yes. There are programs like GDB offers to help with vet 
>> bills, so the food and grooming are really all I have to pay for. 
>> That and toys, which we probably spend way to much money on.
>> More money than I would usually spend? Certainly, but it's nowhere 
>> near a lot (and I'm a student living on a budget). It's also well 
>> worth the money.
>> 
>> 2. It's inconvenient! Yes, taking your dog out must be such hard 
>> work. Wait, I do it every day, what am i talking about? It's not fun 
>> when you're sick and yes, finding a trash can be kind of tough.
>> That's why O'Mally and Minh's viva know "find the trash." That's also 
>> when social skills come into play. "Excuse me mam, do you see a 
>> trashcan nearby?" Works every time. If you're at an unfamiliar hotel, 
>> you just ask at the front desk and they're usually pretty cool about 
>> it. Airports also have relieving areas. Unless you travel twice a 
>> week, a couple hours of slightly less leg room (and I'm fairly tall) 
>> is really not that big of a deal.
>> 
>> 3. It's time-consuming! Yes, having a dog does take time. You'd think 
>> this would be inherently obvious, but it was needed to be pointed out 
>> here. You don't need to go for 12 mile runs, O'mally and I have left 
>> today to relieve and that was pretty much it. I played with him and 
>> listened to a book and sat with him on the floor for a bit. He's 
>> totally happy and hasn't demolished anything.
>> 
>> 4. It's unwelcomed attention! I find it kind of funny you're talking 
>> about being covert and not making a name for yourself with complaints 
>> when the NFB files more lawsuits than I can keep up with. But beyond 
>> that, I've never been turned down from eating because I have a dog. 
>> Cabs, certainly; we all have. If an establishment turns me down, I'll 
>> make sure that people know they did it and they're not treating me 
>> equally. Just because I'm blind doesn't mean I should sit in the 
>> corner and hope that things get better; I want to educate people. 
>> I've had a lot of really amazing people come up and talk to me and 
>> ask questions about my guide. It certainly does get a bit trying at 
>> times, but in no way is it a huge problem. I am sorry however if 
>> you're not the center of the topics and people do ask about your dog. 
>> It happens.
>> 
>> 5. It can be dirty work! Best not ever get sick by yourself then, or 
>> have kids, or anything else. Yes, it can be tough. If you're 
>> squeamish maybe it's not for you. Cleaning up doggy vomit really 
>> isn't the best part of my day, but you do it. mostly because these 
>> dogs do so much for you and if O'mally is sick I'm worried about him 
>> and just want him to get better. You do it because you love your dog.
>> 
>> "If you were contemplating a dog, came across this post and felt 
>> discouraged, you should not get a dog. It's a lot of work. It's a lot 
>> of responsibility. It's constant care and attention and a commitment 
>> to keep up the dog's level of training. No one will fault you for 
>> being mature enough to walk away."
>> 
>> So let me sum this up: expensive; inconvenient; time-consuming; 
>> unwelcome attention; messy work. Yeah, I'd say you probably shouldn't 
>> have a dog. Please though, do try to at least provide constructive 
>> and good information on both sides of this issue. The issues you 
>> raised were incredibly self-centered, rude, generalizing and really 
>> didn't convey any issues beyond negative criticism.
>> 
>> My guide does amazing work each and every day. when I pick up his 
>> harness, he's by my side, tail wagging ready to work for me. He only 
>> asks that I give him love, attention and take care of him with vet 
>> visits, grooming and toys. Given the amount of travel that he has 
>> enabled me to do (I am and was proficient with a cane), I think it 
>> only fitting that I pay for his food, give him attention, clean up 
>> after him when he's sick and treat him well. My guide loves me, no 
>> questions asked. while I somewhat understand these points, I think 
>> anyone who has actually had a guide would really agree that they are 
>> huge issues that should prevent you from getting one.
>> 
>> At first, this looked like a trolling post; it still feels like a 
>> trolling post.
>> 
>> Be well, Ty
>>>>>> On 3/19/2015 10:20 PM, Justin Harford via nabs-l wrote: At first, 
>>>>>> this looked like a trolling post, but after I actually read the 
>>>>>> article, I  enjoyed it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is a very frank and honest examination of the positives and 
>>>>>> negatives of one individual's experience with a guide dog, and 
>>>>>> clearly reads as the opinion of one person.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards Justin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 6:52 PM, Juanita Herrera via nabs-l 
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Being a guide dog user myself, I found the blog offensive and 
>>>>>>> thought of how other guide dog handlers might feel. I didn't 
>>>>>>> want to generalize like the blog seems to do but I felt that if 
>>>>>>> I felt offended by it many other people would have too. I would 
>>>>>>> have appreciated it more if somewhere in the blog post it would 
>>>>>>> have been acknowledged that this was one person's opinion, and 
>>>>>>> not make it seen as if though everyone possessed the same 
>>>>>>> opinion. Being that I am a guide dog user and have been for 
>>>>>>> three years, it has been one of the best experiences of my life. 
>>>>>>> I would never change it for anything, and I don't consider going 
>>>>>>> back to using a cane after I have to retire my dog. Therefore, I 
>>>>>>> highly disagree with the blog post. However, I must reinstate 
>>>>>>> that this is simply my opinion. Juanita
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 6:28 PM, minh ha via nabs-l 
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I agree with Aleeha's sentiments one hundred percent.
>>>>>>>> Over generalization is a huge mistake to do under any 
>>>>>>>> circumstances, and this blog post was offensive to me and other 
>>>>>>>> guide dog handlers on so many levels. If you want to write a 
>>>>>>>> fair and informative blog post about the guide dog lifestyle, 
>>>>>>>> then by all means, point out the negative aspects, but do not 
>>>>>>>> conveniently forget to mention the thousand of other more 
>>>>>>>> positive and beneficial impacts that a guide dog can have on a 
>>>>>>>> person's life. Yes, a guide dog is not the right choice for 
>>>>>>>> everyone and a blind person needs to think long and hard before 
>>>>>>>> getting one, but for the right reasons, a guide dog can 
>>>>>>>> completely turn someone's life around and give them the 
>>>>>>>> confidence in order to live life more productively. Honestly, 
>>>>>>>> your five reasons seem very childish, and i have to wonder if 
>>>>>>>> they are that important to you, then you should be 
>>>>>>>> contemplating about getting another guide dog at all.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Respectfully, Minh and my hard working little guide, Viva
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/15, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote: Personally, I find your subject line a bit offensive, 
>>>>>>>>> as it assumes that guide dogs are a terrible idea for 
>>>>>>>>> everyone. Being the proud handler of a wonderful dog myself, 
>>>>>>>>> and a quite independent cane traveller before that, I am a bit 
>>>>>>>>> upset as what I find to be a somewhat inflammatory post. You 
>>>>>>>>> are right; guide dogs are not for everyone. They are a huge 
>>>>>>>>> responsibility and need a lot of daily care. But to say that 
>>>>>>>>> there are five reasons why a guide dog is a terrile idea seems 
>>>>>>>>> to be going too far, especially addressing such a large body 
>>>>>>>>> of people such as that on this list. Now, having clicked the 
>>>>>>>>> link and read the blog, I know that you are making an attempt 
>>>>>>>>> to be fair and point out the disadvantages, but to not point 
>>>>>>>>> out that this was a blog post or an opinion article, can make 
>>>>>>>>> some folks pretty mad fairly quickly. Can wa choose our words 
>>>>>>>>> and subject lines a little more wisely next time? Aleha and 
>>>>>>>>> Dallas, Seeing Eye dog extrordinaire
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote: If you're blind, you obviously read Braille.
>>>>>>>>>> Your hearing must naturally be superior to your sighted 
>>>>>>>>>> peers, and of course you have a guide dog!
>>>>>>>>>> Right?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Well, that last may not be as pervasive as the first and 
>>>>>>>>>> second. Someone recently told me the number of guide dog 
>>>>>>>>>> users has actually declined in my millennial generation. I 
>>>>>>>>>> have no evidence proving this one way or the other, but for 
>>>>>>>>>> the general public, to see a blind person with a guide dog 
>>>>>>>>>> feels as natural as butter and toast.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thing is, I'm not so sure guide dogs are right for everyone. 
>>>>>>>>>> Or, maybe I'm just projecting my own uncertainties onto the 
>>>>>>>>>> rest of the community?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Last November I took the first step in the application 
>>>>>>>>>> process to return for a second Seeing Eye dog. It's been more 
>>>>>>>>>> than three years since I lost Gator, and even though I've 
>>>>>>>>>> gotten around just fine with a white cane, I am approaching 
>>>>>>>>>> what feels like the final years with sight, however minimal 
>>>>>>>>>> that sight might be. I admit it's unnerving if I sit still 
>>>>>>>>>> long enough to contemplate total blindness. NFB philosophy be 
>>>>>>>>>> damned, and the thought of an extra set of eyes to help me 
>>>>>>>>>> navigate the world does bring a measure of comfort. But, is 
>>>>>>>>>> it enough to go get another dog?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In no particular order, here are reasons why a guide dog 
>>>>>>>>>> would be a terrible idea:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Read more:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://serotalk.com/2015/03/18/5-reasons-why-guide-dogs-are-a
>>>>>>>>>> -terrible-idea/
>>>> 
>>>> 
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> - --
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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