[nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB

Fri Sep 11 21:41:27 UTC 2015

While I do believe that leaving the dog alone may be wrong, do not many employed blind people with dogs not work them for eight hours a day? If you get out and work in the evenings, practice obedience, do plenty of bonding and play exercises while you are at your apartment, I see no reason that the bond should we can as long as your dog understands that you will come back.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Danielle Sykora via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is
> understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the
> student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog into
> travel classes once the student becomes proficient in structured
> discovery methods would be beneficial to the student. This would give
> her the opportunity to start applying the skills she has learned while
> traveling with a cane to a dog while still having the opportunity to
> receive feedback and ask questions to a qualified instructor.
> Orientation skills are important regardless of the type of mobility
> aid, but the feedback one gets from the environment differs with a
> cane when compared to a dog.
> 
> That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids students
> from being allowed to work their dogs during other (non-travel
> related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory. There is no reason
> why a student should not bring her dog to say Braille instruction.
> These students are adults who need to find a balance between working
> their dogs and practicing cane travel. How do centers handle
> non-guiding service dogs? More complicated, what are their policies
> regarding guides that are cross trained for other tasks?
> 
> I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how guide
> dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near constant eight
> hours a day, five days a week will not have negative consequences from
> damaging the bond to stress and boredom related behaviors to more
> frequent mistakes due to lack of work. I know the majority of NFB
> members are respectful of others mobility choices, but an anti-dog
> ideology still lingers no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it
> is due to lack of education. It seems as if people with anti-views
> often have a distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in
> my experience. I honestly don't know.
> 
> I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of NFB
> sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not trying to
> be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations better, and you
> can not do that if you only focus on the positives.
> 
> Danielle
> 
> 
>> On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
>> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
>> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
>> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
>> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
>> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
>> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
>> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
>> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
>> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
>> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
>> discriminated by the NFB.
>> 
>> Minh
>> 
>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>> 
>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when
>>> she
>>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume,
>>> is
>>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>>> during
>>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>>> 
>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes
>>> to
>>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my
>>> cousin
>>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1.
>>> There
>>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
>>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in
>>> both
>>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that
>>> are
>>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>> 
>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster
>>> and
>>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind
>>> person.
>>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through
>>> voc
>>> rehab and the center.
>>> 
>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
>>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB
>>> student
>>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
>>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our
>>> philosophical
>>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
>>> and your organization is right.
>>> 
>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to
>>> debate
>>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and
>>> you
>>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> Derek Manners
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance
>>>>> of
>>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate
>>>>> or
>>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were
>>>>> shocked
>>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> - --
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Minh Ha
>> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>> 
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> 
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