[nabs-l] Joining local chapters

Mon Sep 21 01:25:16 UTC 2015

My message was not just aimed at you -- although I suppose it was a 
little.  I am sorry for the negative experiences that you have 
had.  The NFB has done me a lot of good over the years, and I like it 
when it can do the same for others. I am sorry that this is not your 
experience.  Without meaning to sound harsh though I would add that 
we live in a grey world, nothing is usually just black, or white.  It 
is likely that both you and your local NFB have done things which 
have hurt your relationship.  I am sorry and hope that all can get 
past what has happened previously.

Dave

At 07:54 PM 9/20/2015, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote:
>Hello Dave,
>
>I am sorry to hear you took my personal experience with the NFB as a broad
>generalization about the organization. Unfortunately, my overall experience
>with the NFB has not been a very positive one, and besides a few rare
>exceptions, I have never really received the positive support and
>encouragement I hear other people talk about receiving as members of the
>NFB. This has been something I have experienced at all levels of the
>organization. Therefore, it does not surprise me to hear Kaiti talk about
>being treated this way. From my point of view, this just seems to be the way
>the NFB operates as an organization. However, I am not going to deny my
>negative experience with the NFB simply because other people do not believe
>my negative experience with the NFB could possibly be true.
>
>Warm regards,
>Elizabeth
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>via nabs-l
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:16 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
>I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter does
>something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the "NFB
>way."
>
>Dave
>
>At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
> >Hello Kaiti,
> >
> >I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a
> >local chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the
> >NFB is one of the things I do not like about the organization. In this
> >second email, you state this is not the NFB you know because you
> >believe it is important for other members and chapter leaders to show
> >other people they care about them as people in all situations of their
> >lives as members of the organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you
> >know, but it is definitely the NFB I know, so it really does not
> >surprise me to hear you have been treated this way.
> >
> >I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how
> >to go about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been
> >said, so I will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions
>for you.
> >
> >If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis,
> >is there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
> >committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we
> >usually have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer
> >picnic and the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such
> >a committee even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps
> >serving on such a committee would make the chapter President more open
> >to changing the time and date of the event so you could attend it.
> >
> >Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that
> >take place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
> >Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
> >chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments
> >would allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are
> >more businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could
> >do as a chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other
> >better. So perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night
> >where chapter members could play various card games and board games. Or
> >you could organize something more like a Braille club meeting, book
> >club meeting, or NFB philosophy discussions if you are more interested
> >in having a more tailored discussion about blindness or the NFB.
> >
> >I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
> >might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not
> >able to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it
> >is perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it
> >does not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may
> >encourage you to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or
> >not they make you feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to
> >be involved because of your schedule is up to you and not them. It is
> >not selfish to put yourself first because we are not able to be there
> >for others if we do not look after ourselves first.
> >
> >Warm regards,
> >Elizabeth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> >Shelton via nabs-l
> >Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
> >To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> >list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> >
> >Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to
> >see what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
> >
> >I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
> >accommodating as he can for the current chapter members, and especially
> >as I would be the new person coming in I can't expect them to shift
> >meetings around to suit my individual schedule, but I do think the current
>time could be problematic.
> >The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more
> >students like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the
> >people he'd be looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the
>weekends.
> >
> >I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
> >9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
> >would be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her
> >it coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a
> >night class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs,"
> >like she was trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a
> >*final exam* in a class that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing
> >that happens; they want me to drop everything for the chapter, and
> >while the chapter is important I am not prepared or willing to do that.
> >The same happens when I tell the president that I can't attend
> >October's meeting, or the January meetings, because I will be home in
> >Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go home and have my family
> >drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we wouldn't be able to
> >go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm breaks like every
> >other student does.  That situation is a bit different because in
> >theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break, but
> >I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
>don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
> >This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
> >falls on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
> >
> >There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in
> >the area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to
> >disability services staff to circulate information on the student
> >division and have been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.
> >I know a grand total of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the
> >area; 2 are already in contact with the chapter president, and the other is
>affiliated with ACB.
> >Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
> >before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
> >session at the other college to see if the blind students would come
> >out to hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free
> >pizza or something.  I started by trying to contact people who could
> >help set that up at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from
> >him on it.  It makes telling whether or not he wants students in the
>chapter very confusing.
> >
> >I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
> >earlier in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays,
> >though that could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
> >I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting
> >because A it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I
> >can still get things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
> >There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for
> >students as a collective, though.
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
> >message, because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it
> >has to do a little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to
> >come to chapter meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for
> >student life going on (someone else mentioned that disconnect between
> >the older and younger generations as well), but I feel from the chapter
> >that I am being pressured to choose between student life, which is
> >limitted at this point, and joining the NFB.  In frustration I've said
> >no to the chapter to this point because with the student division in
> >Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm getting the best of both
> >worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position to try to entice a
> >student to the meetings when they are upfront about having to take a
> >final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been getting when I
>say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
> >or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
> >mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
> >Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
> >
> >The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
> >saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses
> >from students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over
> >again I would think that, especially if they come from different people
> >including those who already support the Federation, they might be
> >legitimate conflicts with chapter meetings that I would examine further
> >to allow for the younger generation to better attend.
> >If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be
> >so disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for
> >the chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
> >That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have
> >chapters, so it is important to show that we care about each other as
> >people in different life situations in order to foster a sense of
> >community within the chapter organizations.
> >
> >I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not
> >my top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I
> >don't feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and
> >the December meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to
>begin with.
> >
> >On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > Kaiti,
> > >
> > > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
> > > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation
> > > on a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants
> > > or do marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's
> > > larger priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and
> > > flattered though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did
> > > not have the time to commit to get the job done right. Could I
> > > gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a
> > > self-sustained group that would last beyond the first two or three
> > > meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the
> > > perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but
> > > a good leader at any level of the organization would maximize the
> > > assistance anyone could contribute, whether it be in person or
> > > remotely, once a week or once a month. I'm going to sound like my
> > > own former state affiliate president here, but another option worth
> > > considering is organizing a student group on campus that would give
> > > you the flexibility to set a time that is both convenient and a location
>that is accessible for you guys.
> > > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
> > > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
> > > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
> > > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
> > > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where
> > > NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
> > > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
> > > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
> > > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
> > > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
> > > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
> > > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > --
> > > Musings of a Work in Progress:
> > > www.JoeOrozco.com/
> > >
> > > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> > > Shelton via nabs-l
> > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> > > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
> > > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and
> > > I'm trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I
> > > live in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat
> > > is no way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a
> > > monthly basis as
> >I would like to do.
> > > Chapter
> > > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
> > > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will
> > > not do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.
> > > One of the two chapters gets this a little better than the other
> > > now, and has pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to
> > > have you when we can get you here,"
> > > reception.
> > > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
> > > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
> > > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
> > > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
> > > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that
> > > I can really make a difference, and if I join more students will
> > > join and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
> > >
> > > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
> > > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
> > > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
> > > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
> > > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he
> > > understands what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore
> > > year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.
> > > One was that they are on the first Saturday or the month, which
> > > conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including the
> > > two midterm breaks and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti
> > > dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but
> > > it is always scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on
> > > Saturdays at a part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to
> > > take off work to attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my
> > > grocery money, so giving work wasn't something I was willing to do;
> > > I wanted to pick up extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have
> > > been in a professional music fraternity since the spring semester of
> > > my Freshman year, and a lot of our major events (recruitment events,
> > > initiations and pledging ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With
> > > the chapter meetings scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the
> > > location is subject to change from place to place so students can't
> > > plan for consistency, I have
> >had difficulty in getting there.
> > >
> > > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
> > > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
> > > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the
> > > time isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I
> > > should cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings
> > > because it would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that
> > > while I do understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to
> > > an extent, students do not have as much flexibility as working
> > > people to move classes around in the week, and there are only so
> > > many hours in the weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a
> > > good thing for blind students to be involved in because it shows
> > > peers that we can be engaged and active in the same ways as they
> > > are.  It also creates networking opportunities and even job
> > > prospects after graduation as long as the extracurriculars are not
> > > merely social in nature, which mine are not.  I want to join the
> > > local chapter nearby, but I also want to experience life as a
> > > student too in the year or so I have left of undergrad.
> > >
> > > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found
> > > ways to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of
> > > chapters, and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a
> > > Saturday probably isn't great for most students since it's right in
> > > the middle of the day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I
> > > feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to join as badly
> > > as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more
> > > accessible to that group of people.  Right now I know it is not for
> > > me, and I think that is also the case for other highly-involved and
> > > motivated students who the president would like to see join the chapter.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but
> > > I am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
> > > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> > > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
> > > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
> > > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
> > > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
> > > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating
> > > the push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses
> > > or because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
> > > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year
> > > longer tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that
> > > when I'm home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour
> > > back home
> > > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
> > > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
> > > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
> > > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely
> > > come when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current
> > > chapter if they don't take their desire for student members and what
> > > is accessible to them into consideration.
> > > --
> > > Kaiti Shelton
> > > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> > > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
> > > Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
> > > Division
> > > 2015-2016
> > >
> > > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> >
> >
> >--
> >Kaiti Shelton
> >University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> >President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org