[nabs-l] Joining local chapters
Elizabeth Mohnke
lizmohnke at hotmail.com
Mon Sep 21 14:12:35 UTC 2015
Hello Dave,
Since your message was in response to my message, I thought it was targeted
to me. Please forgive me for automatically jumping to this conclusion
without considering the possibility it could have simply been a general
statement that was not specifically intended for me.
I think when people are treated a certain way by other members and leaders
of the NFB, and this happens with various NFB members and leaders from
across the country, it is difficult not to conclude this is just simply the
way NFB members and leaders treat other people.
I am sure there are probably some positive aspects to my experience with the
NFB, but right now it is difficult for me to identify any of them. Perhaps
as I detach myself from all the negative things the NFB has brought into my
life, I might be able to see some of the more positive things the NFB has
brought into my life.
Warm regards,
Elizabeth
-----Original Message-----
From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 9:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>;
'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
My message was not just aimed at you -- although I suppose it was a little.
I am sorry for the negative experiences that you have had. The NFB has done
me a lot of good over the years, and I like it when it can do the same for
others. I am sorry that this is not your experience. Without meaning to
sound harsh though I would add that we live in a grey world, nothing is
usually just black, or white. It is likely that both you and your local NFB
have done things which have hurt your relationship. I am sorry and hope
that all can get past what has happened previously.
Dave
At 07:54 PM 9/20/2015, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote:
>Hello Dave,
>
>I am sorry to hear you took my personal experience with the NFB as a
>broad generalization about the organization. Unfortunately, my overall
>experience with the NFB has not been a very positive one, and besides a
>few rare exceptions, I have never really received the positive support
>and encouragement I hear other people talk about receiving as members
>of the NFB. This has been something I have experienced at all levels of
>the organization. Therefore, it does not surprise me to hear Kaiti talk
>about being treated this way. From my point of view, this just seems to
>be the way the NFB operates as an organization. However, I am not going
>to deny my negative experience with the NFB simply because other people
>do not believe my negative experience with the NFB could possibly be true.
>
>Warm regards,
>Elizabeth
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David
>Andrews via nabs-l
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:16 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
>I would urge people to not make generalizations. Because one chapter
>does something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is
>the "NFB way."
>
>Dave
>
>At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
> >Hello Kaiti,
> >
> >I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a
> >local chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the
> >NFB is one of the things I do not like about the organization. In
> >this second email, you state this is not the NFB you know because you
> >believe it is important for other members and chapter leaders to show
> >other people they care about them as people in all situations of
> >their lives as members of the organization. Perhaps this is not the
> >NFB you know, but it is definitely the NFB I know, so it really does
> >not surprise me to hear you have been treated this way.
> >
> >I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to
> >how to go about handling this situation. I agree with what has
> >already been said, so I will not repeat it. However, I do have some
> >other suggestions
>for you.
> >
> >If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular
> >basis, is there any way you could get involved in the chapter by
> >serving on a committee that meets at a different time? I know for our
> >chapter, we usually have a committee who help plan and organize the
> >chapter summer picnic and the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you
> >could serve on such a committee even if you are not able to attend
> >the event, or perhaps serving on such a committee would make the
> >chapter President more open to changing the time and date of the event so
you could attend it.
> >
> >Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings
> >that take place at a different date and time than the regular chapter
meetings.
> >Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
> >chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments
> >would allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are
> >more businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could
> >do as a chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each
> >other better. So perhaps you could organize something fun like a game
> >night where chapter members could play various card games and board
> >games. Or you could organize something more like a Braille club
> >meeting, book club meeting, or NFB philosophy discussions if you are
> >more interested in having a more tailored discussion about blindness or
the NFB.
> >
> >I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how
> >you might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you
> >are not able to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However,
> >I think it is perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local
> >chapter if it does not fit into your schedule. Other members of the
> >chapter may encourage you to become more involved with the chapter,
> >but whether or not they make you feel guilty about the fact that you
> >are not able to be involved because of your schedule is up to you and
> >not them. It is not selfish to put yourself first because we are not
> >able to be there for others if we do not look after ourselves first.
> >
> >Warm regards,
> >Elizabeth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> >Shelton via nabs-l
> >Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
> >To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> >mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> >
> >Thanks all for your comments. I've hung back since my initial post
> >to see what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
> >
> >I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
> >accommodating as he can for the current chapter members, and
> >especially as I would be the new person coming in I can't expect them
> >to shift meetings around to suit my individual schedule, but I do
> >think the current
>time could be problematic.
> >The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more
> >students like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of
> >the people he'd be looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars
> >on the
>weekends.
> >
> >I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
> >9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
> >would be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before. I told
> >her it coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it
> >was a night class). She said, "But we have a board position up for
grabs,"
> >like she was trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a
> >*final exam* in a class that I couldn't miss. That's the kind of
> >thing that happens; they want me to drop everything for the chapter,
> >and while the chapter is important I am not prepared or willing to do
that.
> >The same happens when I tell the president that I can't attend
> >October's meeting, or the January meetings, because I will be home in
> >Cincinnati with my family. I'm not going to go home and have my
> >family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we wouldn't be
> >able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm breaks
> >like every other student does. That situation is a bit different
> >because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of
> >break, but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with
> >family when I
>don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
> >This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
> >falls on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
> >
> >There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in
> >the area, but I don't know who they are. I've tried reaching out to
> >disability services staff to circulate information on the student
> >division and have been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.
> >I know a grand total of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the
> >area; 2 are already in contact with the chapter president, and the
> >other is
>affiliated with ACB.
> >Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has
> >said before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some
> >information session at the other college to see if the blind students
> >would come out to hear about the chapter, the student division, and
> >have free pizza or something. I started by trying to contact people
> >who could help set that up at the school, but I haven't heard
> >anything more from him on it. It makes telling whether or not he
> >wants students in the
>chapter very confusing.
> >
> >I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
> >earlier in the day. I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays,
> >though that could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
> >I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting
> >because A it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so
> >I can still get things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
> >There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for
> >students as a collective, though.
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
> >message, because that really is the route of the problem. Perhaps it
> >has to do a little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to
> >come to chapter meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for
> >student life going on (someone else mentioned that disconnect between
> >the older and younger generations as well), but I feel from the
> >chapter that I am being pressured to choose between student life,
> >which is limitted at this point, and joining the NFB. In frustration
> >I've said no to the chapter to this point because with the student
> >division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm getting the
> >best of both worlds. I don't feel like using a board position to try
> >to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
> >having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have
> >been getting when I
>say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
> >or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
> >mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual." Or,
> >"It's Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
> >
> >The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian
> >was saying. It is possible that the chapter president has gotten
> >excuses from students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over
> >and over again I would think that, especially if they come from
> >different people including those who already support the Federation,
> >they might be legitimate conflicts with chapter meetings that I would
> >examine further to allow for the younger generation to better attend.
> >If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not
> >be so disconnected. Right now it just seems like he's only concerned
> >for the chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
> >That's not the NFB I know at all. Without members we do not have
> >chapters, so it is important to show that we care about each other as
> >people in different life situations in order to foster a sense of
> >community within the chapter organizations.
> >
> >I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's
> >not my top priority. Now that I have a better sense of how to handle
> >it I don't feel a rush to do so. I can't attend at least the October
> >and the December meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a
> >wash to
>begin with.
> >
> >On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > Kaiti,
> > >
> > > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
> > > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation
> > > on a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write
> > > grants or do marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the
> > > president's larger priority was me organizing a chapter in my
> > > local area, and flattered though I was to be considered for the
> > > task, I knew I did not have the time to commit to get the job done
> > > right. Could I gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I
> > > whip them into a self-sustained group that would last beyond the
> > > first two or three meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed
> > > out, finding the perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a
> > > difficult task, but a good leader at any level of the organization
> > > would maximize the assistance anyone could contribute, whether it
> > > be in person or remotely, once a week or once a month. I'm going
> > > to sound like my own former state affiliate president here, but
> > > another option worth considering is organizing a student group on
> > > campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that is
> > > both convenient and a location
>that is accessible for you guys.
> > > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your
> > > affiliate that would allow you to remain connected and involved in
> > > some capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be
> > > concerned enough to want to know how to stay active in the
> > > organization. My final thought is that you could be at a season in
> > > your life where NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It
> > > would be great if everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the
> > > NFB, but then, we'd be sacrificing the opportunities of
> > > accomplishment we're advocating for. If pressed to choose between
> > > attending a meeting or being a productive contributor to my
> > > community at-large, I'd choose the second. That seems a bit blunt,
> > > but that's part of the ongoing disconnect between the older generation
and the younger membership.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > --
> > > Musings of a Work in Progress:
> > > www.JoeOrozco.com/
> > >
> > > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> > > Shelton via nabs-l
> > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> > > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
> > > prepared for that. For the past two years I've had a dilemma and
> > > I'm trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.
> > > I live in one city and attend school in another, so there off the
> > > bat is no way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a
> > > monthly basis as
> >I would like to do.
> > > Chapter
> > > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
> > > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will
> > > not do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.
> > > One of the two chapters gets this a little better than the other
> > > now, and has pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love
> > > to have you when we can get you here,"
> > > reception.
> > > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
> > > president doesn't seem to get the student thing. I try to go to
> > > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
> > > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation
> > > are opened again. I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter,
> > > that I can really make a difference, and if I join more students
> > > will join and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young
people.
> > >
> > > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a
> > > little confused and pressured to join. I know he is doing his job
> > > as a chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
> > > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other
> > > projects in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think
> > > he understands what it is like for students anymore. In my
> > > sophomore year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few
reasons.
> > > One was that they are on the first Saturday or the month, which
> > > conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including the
> > > two midterm breaks and the Christmas break. The Christmas
> > > spaghetti dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to
> > > come to, but it is always scheduled durring my finals week. When
> > > I worked on Saturdays at a part time job my sophomore year they
> > > wanted me to take off work to attend chapter meetings. At the
> > > time that was my grocery money, so giving work wasn't something I
> > > was willing to do; I wanted to pick up extra hours, not throw them
> > > away. I also have been in a professional music fraternity since
> > > the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a lot of our major
> > > events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging ceremonies,
> > > etc) happen on Saturdays. With the chapter meetings scheduled
> > > from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
> > > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency,
> > > I have
> >had difficulty in getting there.
> > >
> > > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is
> > > a double-standard here. He wants new blood in the chapter, but
> > > when I tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings
> > > when the time isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and
> > > tells me I should cancel work or do what it takes to come to
> > > chapter meetings because it would benefit the chapter. I try to
> > > explain to him that while I do understand personal sacrifices can
> > > and should be made to an extent, students do not have as much
> > > flexibility as working people to move classes around in the week,
> > > and there are only so many hours in the weekend. Not to mention
> > > extracurriculars are a good thing for blind students to be
> > > involved in because it shows peers that we can be engaged and
> > > active in the same ways as they are. It also creates networking
> > > opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as long as
> > > the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which mine
> > > are not. I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also want
> > > to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left of
undergrad.
> > >
> > > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found
> > > ways to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of
> > > chapters, and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a
> > > Saturday probably isn't great for most students since it's right
> > > in the middle of the day. I did not send the email I drafted, but
> > > I feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to join as
> > > badly as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more
> > > accessible to that group of people. Right now I know it is not
> > > for me, and I think that is also the case for other
> > > highly-involved and motivated students who the president would like to
see join the chapter.
> > >
> > > Thoughts? I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here,
> > > but I am open to anything at this point. I really would join the
> > > local chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently
attend.
> > > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social
> > > events outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.
> > > I've prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in
> > > other projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining
> > > either of these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not
> > > appreciating the push-back for my reasons why. It's not that I'm
> > > making excuses or because I don't want to go; I think work
> > > conflicts and required fraternity events which I will only be able
> > > to have for a year longer tops are acceptable reasons to be
> > > absent, not to mention that when I'm home traveling an hour to the
> > > meeting and then another hour back home
> > > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask. I suppose my logic is that I
> > > am already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time
> > > is right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
> > > contribute in a stable and dedicated way. That will most likely
> > > come when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current
> > > chapter if they don't take their desire for student members and
> > > what is accessible to them into consideration.
> > > --
> > > Kaiti Shelton
> > > University of Dayton-Music Therapy President, Ohio Association of
> > > Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The National Federation of
> > > the Blind Performing Arts Division
> > > 2015-2016
> > >
> > > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you
back!"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > .c
> > > om
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > 40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Kaiti Shelton
> >University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> >President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail: dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
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