[nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla format

Rilind Dragoshi dragoshi11 at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 21 15:37:29 UTC 2016


Hello Emma.
>From my experiences with citations I find with audio books if there is some e kind of section or title number I cite that in parenthesis. However, it's important to ask for permission to do this and explain the situation beforehand to the professor.
On another topic where it was mentioned that at times the audio material isn't helpful. As far as whether to use such material, one recommendation I have is that before a course if you found a required reading in audio/kindle, it's good to confirm if you will be able to use that particular text: basically keeping in mind the obvious fact that with that you won't be able to see the spelling of words, will have to cite differently such as time or section/chapter, and will not be able to use the direct quotations. The spelling is usually not an issue as it is shown in PowerPoints, etc. In my view from my experience the only time an audio book would not be good is if it was for some kind of stats or language course where you were learning a task or learning a language, where spelling is also important, and also in a case where the professor required longer direct quote citations. I will even add here though that even in such a case I have often been able to just go to that section of the book, listen to a part of a sentence or sentence, and accurately use it in a quote.  

The other issue that at times comes when using MLA and other formats is when if there is a document where the pages do not show with the screen reader. This is rare but has happened to me before in a PDF document. In that case if that issue occurred, then I followed the recommendation of one of my professors, who had me send him the document in a word format and then just use the page numbers of the word document itself as citations. Of course it's always good to ask when any of these issues come up to verify if this is okay or if there is something different the professor expects.
Hope this helps:

Rilind.

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Today's Topics:

   1. fundraising committee meeting (luke schwinck)
   2. Re: fundraising committee meeting (Tori Clark)
   3. What is the best format for citing in Mla format? (Emma Mitchell)
   4. Re: What is the best format for citing in Mla format?
      (Kaley Jemison)
   5. Re: What is the best format for citing in Mla format?
      (roanna bacchus)
   6. Re: Legislative Committee meeting
      (Kathryn Webster, NABS President)
   7. Re: What is the best format for citing in Mla format?
      (Emma Mitchell)
   8. Re: 7 plus blind or low vision students facing discrimination
      at NIU... Please help!!!!! (AlyssaHenson)
   9. Re: What is the best format for citing in Mla format?
      (Karl Martin Adam)
  10. Re: 7 plus blind or low vision students facing discrimination
      at NIU... Please help!!!!! (Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer)
  11. Re: What is the best format for citing in Mla format?
      (Kaley Jemison)
  12. Re: Law School's Power Over Readers for Outside of Class Work
      Paid for by the state (Ashley Bramlett)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 16:37:40 +0000
From: luke schwinck <luke.schwinck at hotmail.com>
To: "nabs.president at gmail.com" <nabs.president at gmail.com>,
	"shannoncantan.nfb at gmail.com" <shannoncantan.nfb at gmail.com>,
	"syedrizvinfb at gmail.com" <syedrizvinfb at gmail.com>,
	"somojan94 at gmail.com"	<somojan94 at gmail.com>, "essmile at cox.net"
	<essmile at cox.net>, Bobbie Binns	<robert.1989.binns at gmail.com>,
	"annajee82 at gmail.com" <annajee82 at gmail.com>,
	"cricketbidleman at gmail.com" <cricketbidleman at gmail.com>, Cody
	Beardslee	<codybeardslee at gmail.com>, "staleyh at gmail.com"
	<staleyh at gmail.com>,	"jpolansky.nfb at gmail.com"
	<jpolansky.nfb at gmail.com>, "kristi.q.v at gmail.com"
	<kristi.q.v at gmail.com>, "samraw2 at pdx.edu" <samraw2 at pdx.edu>, "National
	Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] fundraising committee meeting
Message-ID:
	<BN6PR22MB0146FC14AE98333F29C56FA8F6B20 at BN6PR22MB0146.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hey Everyone,


Tonight will be a fun and exciting fundraising committee meeting!  As Washington Seminar approaches the excitement and anticipation for the annual NABS Cafe and student seminar is palpable!


Please find attached the agenda for tonights meeting.  The meeting will be at 8pm central time and the number to call in as always is (605)475-6700 and the PIN is 7869673.  I'm always anxious to hear the opinions of our existing committee members and welcome those of you who may have unique and progressive ideas to share tonight.  If you have any questions between now and then please do not hesitate to ask.


Best regards,

Luke A. Schwinck

Treasurer

Fundraising Committee Chair

National Association of Blind Students

A proud division of the National Federation of the Blind
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 11:51:18 -0600
From: Tori Clark <toriclark732 at yahoo.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] fundraising committee meeting
Message-ID: <E5BAF9CE-AA78-4B79-B279-6FD5D04996D1 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

Hello other Mac user,

I will do my best to be there. Church unfortunately comes first but I can call in from the ride home. 

Tori.

Black Hawk Chapter President National Federation of the Blind of Illinois. 
Younique presenter
309-373-2830

> On Nov 20, 2016, at 10:37 AM, luke schwinck via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey Everyone,
> 
> 
> Tonight will be a fun and exciting fundraising committee meeting!  As Washington Seminar approaches the excitement and anticipation for the annual NABS Cafe and student seminar is palpable!
> 
> 
> Please find attached the agenda for tonights meeting.  The meeting will be at 8pm central time and the number to call in as always is (605)475-6700 and the PIN is 7869673.  I'm always anxious to hear the opinions of our existing committee members and welcome those of you who may have unique and progressive ideas to share tonight.  If you have any questions between now and then please do not hesitate to ask.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Luke A. Schwinck
> 
> Treasurer
> 
> Fundraising Committee Chair
> 
> National Association of Blind Students
> 
> A proud division of the National Federation of the Blind
> <fc meeting agenda nov 20.pages>
> _______________________________________________
> NABS-L mailing list
> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/toriclark732%40yahoo.com




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:07:16 -0500
From: Emma Mitchell <emitchell927 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla format?
Message-ID: <7A7E3494-124C-4D0D-9F70-51A4142B3D16 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

Hey everyone,
What is the best way to cite a page number in a text book? What format of textbook do you use? Please help!
Emma

Sent from my iPhone


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:21:33 -0500
From: Kaley Jemison <kcj21 at bellsouth.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla
	format?
Message-ID: <39FA797B-CF13-47EE-9016-65361FBAFFDB at bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

Hi Emma, usually, you would just put the main authors last name and then the page number in parentheses following your direct quote. I recommend looking on Purdue owl for work cited page information. Remember, MLA has updated recently they now want to URL in there citation.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Emma Mitchell via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone,
> What is the best way to cite a page number in a text book? What format of textbook do you use? Please help!
> Emma
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> NABS-L mailing list
> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:32:16 -0500
From: roanna bacchus <rbacchus228 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla
	format?
Message-ID: <58322475.11d40d0a.6025f.e27f at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Emma I use the MLA format for citing page numbers.  I use 
electronic texts that have been provided to me by my Dss office.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:52:35 -0500
From: "Kathryn Webster, NABS President" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Legislative Committee meeting
Message-ID: <00ea01d24380$c99cd860$5cd68920$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"

Very much looking forward to tonight's call!
Thanks for all you do, Michael!

Talk to many of you soon,
Kathryn

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael D Ausbun via NABS-L
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 12:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Michael D Ausbun <mausbun at unr.edu>
Subject: [nabs-l] Legislative Committee meeting

Dear NABSters:
	The time for the legislative committee meeting is upon us once again! Please join us at 8:00 P.M. Eastern, Sunday November 20, as we have a lot to discuss!
Call in number: 605-475-6700
Access code: 7869673
	I look forward to hearing all of the wonderful things we have accomplished, since last we spoke!
Respectfully,
Michael Ausbun

National Association of Blind Students
Legislative Committee Agenda:
?	Introductions
?	AIM-HEA
o	What it is
o	Our role
o	Letters
?	Student testimonials
?	University support
?	SGA Support
?	Washington Seminar
o	When is it
o	What is it
o	Funding opportunities
?	Updates
?	Questions and comments.
_______________________________________________
NABS-L mailing list
NABS-L at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:59:24 -0500
From: Emma Mitchell <emitchell927 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla
	format?
Message-ID: <3FE186DE-EE05-4C6E-B7D3-BA8056698EC1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

I know Emily format but my question is what textbook format do you use to make citing page numbers easier? I know audiobooks do do not have page numbers and I'm running into a major problem 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Kaley Jemison via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Emma, usually, you would just put the main authors last name and then the page number in parentheses following your direct quote. I recommend looking on Purdue owl for work cited page information. Remember, MLA has updated recently they now want to URL in there citation.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Emma Mitchell via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey everyone,
>> What is the best way to cite a page number in a text book? What format of textbook do you use? Please help!
>> Emma
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> NABS-L mailing list
>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NABS-L mailing list
> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emitchell927%40gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 18:02:30 -0500
From: AlyssaHenson <alyssahenson95 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 7 plus blind or low vision students facing
	discrimination at NIU... Please help!!!!!
Message-ID: <BB98C604-1865-409F-B348-0AC75838F9E2 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8

Hello Zach,
You probably remember me as i am one of the people that showed you around. I experienced similar difficulties with the classes you mentioned.  I also had issues with the advanced Braille course which you would be taking in the spring. I'm glad someone is finally taking steps to address the issues.  I wish I would have done the same. You can feel free to email me off list if you have any additional questions regarding my experience.
Warm regards,
Alyssa

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:06 AM, Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning federationists,
>   Please forgive me in advance, this is going to be a long email. I am disappointed to inform you that 7 students, including myself, are facing or have faced  discrimination by a program at a university whose aim is to teach blind students. Perhaps there are more that I don?t know of, and if this is the case, it would be great to know of their experiences.  The program is in the school of special education at Northern Illinois University main campus in DeKalb, West side Chicago, Illinois. There are 7 confirme cases of discrimination and/or difficulty to complete assigned coursework in the visual disabilities program, between the programs at both the undergraduate and graduate level. What?s more disappointing to me is that in this semester alone, 4 blind students including myself have elected to change our majors because of the difficulties we face. 
>   Obviously for me to be writing these statistics something is terribly wrong here?So I should explain further that the reasons compiled or most noted are lack of adaptation by course instructors, discouragement by some instructors for blind people to participate actively and fully, lack of knowledge by sighted colleagues of how to help the blind students in the class, lack of teaching proper cane/guide dog use skills early, and problems with conflicting philosophy. As far as I know, 3 of the 3 students who have already changed their major and started down a new career path have not sought assistance from resources at Northern Illinois University or the National Federation of the Blind, and the same can be said of 3 of the 4 students making the transition over the upcoming holiday vacation. Some have directly told me that they decided to leave quietly, thinking their voices wouldn?t be heard and that they would not be able to make a difference with just 1 person. They encouraged me to do the same, and although I?m changing majors for the sole reason of keeping my high grade point average that way going into the latter part of my undergraduate career, I am not leaving without making a lasting impact on the visual disabilities program?and I need your help. 6 of the 7 students do not know the National Federation of the Blind as far as I know, and they are strictly reliant on the disability resource center and the department of vocational rehabilitation of Illinois. Yours truly however knows all 3.
>   The first issue, and the one I find of most importance?is the discrimination that blind students are faced with in this program at both the undergraduate and graduate level. I am in my 1st block of classes?introduction to teaching students with visual impairments, introduction to Orientation and Mobility, Introduction to Braille which I tested out of, and The Anatomy and Pathology of the Eye. jOf those 3 classes where I am participating, I know that the hardest one for me is Introduction to teaching students with visual impairments. The class is to teach students to develop and teach lessons according to EDTPA standards. In this class, there are 2 obvious red flags. The first is its sequence in the program, when students are concurrently enrolled in Introduction to Braille. Most sighted students?and a few blind students?were not proficient at Braille and taking the 2 classes at the same time. This has an automatic drawback in my mind, the sighted students have no idea yet about adaptive tech or Braille and the program is about teaching blind students. This is not so hard to overcome because they will learn the skills in due time,  although I?ve had several sighted students approach me regarding this class apologizing to me that they don?t know how to adapt their lessons, which I forgave them but told them some very simple strategies to adapt with little to no stress for them. I have put 2 other blind students in the class in charge also of talking to other sighted classmates, but they gave up after only a few tries and no success. The other red flag is the more major one in my mind, it stares everyone in the face during each lesson plan. I copied and pasted the section of the instructions of each lesson I refer to below, and it clearly spells out discrimination. ?...You are pre-teaching this so that the student is more prepared for the class discussion and activities.  Select one or more CONCEPTS that will help the student understand the content more fully.  The student is a print reader and all materials must be in print.  We will assume that you would provide appropriate modifications tailored to the student?s vision skills determined through functional vision and learning media assessments.  For this exercise, however, use standard print materials but it is fair to address any concepts that you think would be particularly difficult for a student.? This spells out that NO blind students can be participating as students in the lesson, they can only participate as teachers. Furthermore it makes the assumption that the students know how to perform assessments to determine usable vision, and that has not even been taught. It is important to note that many sighted students want to teach the blind students in the class, (I.E.) the blind students in the class could be the blind students in the lesson scenario. Also of importance to note is that the groups of students consist of 3 to 4 students, and it is 1 to 1 ratio of teacher and student so the other students just sit and observe. It is also hard to sift through the CCSS standards, and half the time the teacher reports back to me that I didn?t do the best standard for my assignment. There are other various reasons for point deduction, but I feel that I am doing the best I can from the instruction given. There are also video observations of classrooms for undergraduate students, which is second to being able to observe a live classroom like the graduate students do. This is less of a concern to me, although it would be much more beneficial if every student had the same experience?even if they were partnered up to go on observations. Across other classes? in Orientation and Mobility, except for the blind students, nobody is using a cane or guide dog. An overwhelming majority of the class is lecture, and when we are out on travel, it?s all done under blindfold and teaching sighted guide and protective techniques with hands at different positions?which is agreeably important but far from the comprehensive skills that need to be covered to make it effective and safe. I?ve learned that there is an advanced O&M class open to graduates only that teaches cane travel skills, meaning that all the undergraduates get is the basic class without the cane. Also there are major philosophy differences from what I know to what is being taught in that class. As 2 examples, students are instructed that it is not safe or responsible to leave a blind student unattended when they step away to check in to a hotel or restaurant, and that blind people should use paratransit services or sit immediately behind the operator of the public transit vehicle in the priority seating area, making others move if need be. One particular lesson that had the sighted students wandering around lost, sounding very similar to #HowEyeSeeIt earlier this year was learning their way around a grocery store under blindfold while holding the elbow of another classmate. This included going to and from the store using public transportation.  Obviously the first part could not apply to me exactly as instructed, and I questioned the legality of guiding a sighted student off of campus with no cane, sighting the fact that I could be held liable for someone who had no experience in the proper techniques if they were in any way hurt or whatever. I ended up instructing as I was taught during my training at the Colorado Center for the Blind and the sighted student traveled to and from the store without blindfold. I got an additional opportunity to work with another student who wanted to see how a compitent blind person travels. But this is highly unfair to blind and sighted people alike because this not the way anyone would learn to get around the store. The lesson was that the blind partner would be able to walk into a store and grab something off the shelf if the sighted person show them how to get there and to the specific item. I feel this is not a fair lesson because items? locations may change and this leaves the blind person to have to try and try again to find an item that was moved. In anatomy of the eye, the instructor is doing their best to talk about the functions of everything, but a good tactual representation of everything would make it make much more sense. We dissected a cow?s eye which gave me at least a little better understanding, but my partner did most of the work even though I had my hands all over the area where the eye was being dicected. The same instructor teaches O&M and anatomy and is a really nice person but my final comment about them is they adjust scores up so it doesn?t accurately reflect how a student is doing, regardless of if they are passing or failing. 
>   I have heard from people that have continued passed these introductory classes that in clinical, they are having issues including but not limited to not being able to actively participate because of lack of access to material in a format that can be comprehended. I also have experienced their other issue, the instructors are always saying to have the students use whatever remaining vision they have or to rely on their resource teacher. I do not know a blind student in the undergraduate or graduate level who has successfully graduated the visual disabilities program at Northern Illinois University.
>   It was my goal since 2013 when someone forwarded info about a scholarship to attend NIU to the National Association of Blind Students to get to Chicago asap so I could learn how to teach students like me in a variety of environments. I kept looking for ways to go to Chicago starting during my CCB training, but my parents wanted me to stay in Colorado because it is nearer to where they live. So I compromised and started my undergraduate work in Greeley at University of Northern Colorado, NIU still on the forefront of my mind. In April of last year, I received an invitation to the spring seminar of the Illinois Association of Blind Students because of my membership on Illinois NFB lists, and I jumped on the cheapest flight I could find. I went out a day early to go to NIU and explore, and 1 of the 7 students I gave mention to showed me around a little but that barely scratched the surface. In the middle of October of 2015 was when I declared to everyone that I could obtain a undergraduate degree at NIU as what I wanted to more quickly advance to a masters in quicker time than I could get it in Greeley, sighting the fact that an undergraduate TVI program didn?t exist in Greeley. I jumped on the cheapest plane, toured around Chicago with a friend for a few days, and enrolled in NIU the last day before I went back to Denver  I was highly impressed with the disability resource center?s services, in particular the fact that they told me they have an on sight Braille transcriber and an electronic text coordinator who would get me all the materials I needed only by me submitting a receipt and making a simple request in person or online including the proof of purchase. It sounded too good to be true, but I quickly found out that this disability resource center really knows their stuff and have been greatful to work with them since. Speaking of them, my case manager put me in contact with some of the people that are higher up in the department and is trying to help me troubleshoot as best as they can, but they said it?s more up to the student to do that and that DRC would be there to assist along the way as necessary. I made it through my 1st winter in Chicago with a 3.4 and went into this semester on a good grade from a summer class.
>   Only 2 airlines leaving Chicago serve the airport closest to my home. I flew through Denver on United on my way home yesterday marking the start of Thanksgiving break, and as I got on my connecting flight and the safety video began, I had time to reflect on everything to myself and I really missed my times in Denver and thought for a little bit of going  back. Walking outside and up the jet bridge to get my hour?s long flight home from there was what really got me thinking. But I knew I couldn?t easily switch again and I quickly convinced myself of it, with the number of friends I made around Chicago and the promises of being able to be done a year sooner in my new major of rehabilitation services, thereby getting me to my next adventure?Louisiana Tech University?sooner.
>   Thus said, I have a few question. Is there anything NFBI or national can do to make it so that the visual disabilities program doesn?t discriminate against anyone in future or make them feel ?chased away?? Has anyone you know graduated from there who is blind or low vision? How about what would you recommend to me and the other 3 students who are in the midst of changing majors?did we do the right thing? I am taken aback at how the program has chosen to deal with blind and sighted students alike and was surprised to hear it echoed across many fronts this semester. Can the federation step in and fight for us?or if not us because it may be too late?other blind people who have yet to enter the program? And 1 last question, did anyone around here get the teaching certification another way and then enter tech because that?s what I am now facing. Even if I didn?t get it, I plan to be there in due time for the rehabilitation teaching and o&M programs. That limits the possibilities by a third if I didn?t get a teaching degree though, which makes me disappointed because I thought I had it made at NIU.  Thank you for bearing with me, and I really look forward to any feedback?legal or otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Macbook Pro 13
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 18:40:46 -0500
From: Karl Martin Adam <kmaent1 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla
	format?
Message-ID: <58323499.e319370a.6c6f7.ad59 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

You have to get your book either as a publisher file as a scan 
from your DSS or from something like bookshare.  Any text or 
braille file will do as long as it preserves the original 
pagination (publisher files nearly always do, most bookshare 
books are paginated but many are not, and DSS should set their 
scanner to preserve the pagination though you should talk to them 
about this before they scan things).  As you mention, audio books 
are pretty much useless for academic purposes.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Emma Mitchell via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:59:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla 
format?

I know Emily format but my question is what textbook format do 
you use to make citing page numbers easier? I know audiobooks do 
do not have page numbers and I'm running into a major problem

Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Kaley Jemison via NABS-L 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 Hi Emma, usually, you would just put the main authors last name 
and then the page number in parentheses following your direct 
quote. I recommend looking on Purdue owl for work cited page 
information. Remember, MLA has updated recently they now want to 
URL in there citation.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Emma Mitchell via NABS-L 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 Hey everyone,
 What is the best way to cite a page number in a text book? What 
format of textbook do you use? Please help!
 Emma

 Sent from my iPhone
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:00:43 -0700
From: "Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer" <zdreicer at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 7 plus blind or low vision students facing
	discrimination at NIU... Please help!!!!!
Message-ID: <A0A3D7A5-E260-47B9-89BA-D1A7A73DB8FB at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8

I didn't even count you in my initial headcount so that makes eight now! Yes I do  remember you!!!  I hope to call you soon so maybe we can put something together about it

Sent from my iPhone 7 Using VoiceOver

> On Nov 20, 2016, at 16:02, AlyssaHenson via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello Zach,
> You probably remember me as i am one of the people that showed you around. I experienced similar difficulties with the classes you mentioned.  I also had issues with the advanced Braille course which you would be taking in the spring. I'm glad someone is finally taking steps to address the issues.  I wish I would have done the same. You can feel free to email me off list if you have any additional questions regarding my experience.
> Warm regards,
> Alyssa
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:06 AM, Zachary N. Griego-Dreicer via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning federationists,
>>  Please forgive me in advance, this is going to be a long email. I am disappointed to inform you that 7 students, including myself, are facing or have faced  discrimination by a program at a university whose aim is to teach blind students. Perhaps there are more that I don?t know of, and if this is the case, it would be great to know of their experiences.  The program is in the school of special education at Northern Illinois University main campus in DeKalb, West side Chicago, Illinois. There are 7 confirme cases of discrimination and/or difficulty to complete assigned coursework in the visual disabilities program, between the programs at both the undergraduate and graduate level. What?s more disappointing to me is that in this semester alone, 4 blind students including myself have elected to change our majors because of the difficulties we face. 
>>  Obviously for me to be writing these statistics something is terribly wrong here?So I should explain further that the reasons compiled or most noted are lack of adaptation by course instructors, discouragement by some instructors for blind people to participate actively and fully, lack of knowledge by sighted colleagues of how to help the blind students in the class, lack of teaching proper cane/guide dog use skills early, and problems with conflicting philosophy. As far as I know, 3 of the 3 students who have already changed their major and started down a new career path have not sought assistance from resources at Northern Illinois University or the National Federation of the Blind, and the same can be said of 3 of the 4 students making the transition over the upcoming holiday vacation. Some have directly told me that they decided to leave quietly, thinking their voices wouldn?t be heard and that they would not be able to make a difference with just 1 person. They encouraged me to do the same, and although I?m changing majors for the sole reason of keeping my high grade point average that way going into the latter part of my undergraduate career, I am not leaving without making a lasting impact on the visual disabilities program?and I need your help. 6 of the 7 students do not know the National Federation of the Blind as far as I know, and they are strictly reliant on the disability resource center and the department of vocational rehabilitation of Illinois. Yours truly however knows all 3.
>>  The first issue, and the one I find of most importance?is the discrimination that blind students are faced with in this program at both the undergraduate and graduate level. I am in my 1st block of classes?introduction to teaching students with visual impairments, introduction to Orientation and Mobility, Introduction to Braille which I tested out of, and The Anatomy and Pathology of the Eye. jOf those 3 classes where I am participating, I know that the hardest one for me is Introduction to teaching students with visual impairments. The class is to teach students to develop and teach lessons according to EDTPA standards. In this class, there are 2 obvious red flags. The first is its sequence in the program, when students are concurrently enrolled in Introduction to Braille. Most sighted students?and a few blind students?were not proficient at Braille and taking the 2 classes at the same time. This has an automatic drawback in my mind, the sighted students have no idea yet about adaptive tech or Braille and the program is about teaching blind students. This is not so hard to overcome because they will learn the skills in due time,  although I?ve had several sighted students approach me regarding this class apologizing to me that they don?t know how to adapt their lessons, which I forgave them but told them some very simple strategies to adapt with little to no stress for them. I have put 2 other blind students in the class in charge also of talking to other sighted classmates, but they gave up after only a few tries and no success. The other red flag is the more major one in my mind, it stares everyone in the face during each lesson plan. I copied and pasted the section of the instructions of each lesson I refer to below, and it clearly spells out discrimination. ?...You are pre-teaching this so that the student is more prepared for the class discussion and activities.  Select one or more CONCEPTS that will help the student understand the content more fully.  The student is a print reader and all materials must be in print.  We will assume that you would provide appropriate modifications tailored to the student?s vision skills determined through functional vision and learning media assessments.  For this exercise, however, use standard print materials but it is fair to address any concepts that you think would be particularly difficult for a student.? This spells out that NO blind students can be participating as students in the lesson, they can only participate as teachers. Furthermore it makes the assumption that the students know how to perform assessments to determine usable vision, and that has not even been taught. It is important to note that many sighted students want to teach the blind students in the class, (I.E.) the blind students in the class could be the blind students in the lesson scenario. Also of importance to note is that the groups of students consist of 3 to 4 students, and it is 1 to 1 ratio of teacher and student so the other students just sit and observe. It is also hard to sift through the CCSS standards, and half the time the teacher reports back to me that I didn?t do the best standard for my assignment. There are other various reasons for point deduction, but I feel that I am doing the best I can from the instruction given. There are also video observations of classrooms for undergraduate students, which is second to being able to observe a live classroom like the graduate students do. This is less of a concern to me, although it would be much more beneficial if every student had the same experience?even if they were partnered up to go on observations. Across other classes? in Orientation and Mobility, except for the blind students, nobody is using a cane or guide dog. An overwhelming majority of the class is lecture, and when we are out on travel, it?s all done under blindfold and teaching sighted guide and protective techniques with hands at different positions?which is agreeably important but far from the comprehensive skills that need to be covered to make it effective and safe. I?ve learned that there is an advanced O&M class open to graduates only that teaches cane travel skills, meaning that all the undergraduates get is the basic class without the cane. Also there are major philosophy differences from what I know to what is being taught in that class. As 2 examples, students are instructed that it is not safe or responsible to leave a blind student unattended when they step away to check in to a hotel or restaurant, and that blind people should use paratransit services or sit immediately behind the operator of the public transit vehicle in the priority seating area, making others move if need be. One particular lesson that had the sighted students wandering around lost, sounding very similar to #HowEyeSeeIt earlier this year was learning their way around a grocery store under blindfold while holding the elbow of another classmate. This included going to and from the store using public transportation.  Obviously the first part could not apply to me exactly as instructed, and I questioned the legality of guiding a sighted student off of campus with no cane, sighting the fact that I could be held liable for someone who had no experience in the proper techniques if they were in any way hurt or whatever. I ended up instructing as I was taught during my training at the Colorado Center for the Blind and the sighted student traveled to and from the store without blindfold. I got an additional opportunity to work with another student who wanted to see how a compitent blind person travels. But this is highly unfair to blind and sighted people alike because this not the way anyone would learn to get around the store. The lesson was that the blind partner would be able to walk into a store and grab something off the shelf if the sighted person show them how to get there and to the specific item. I feel this is not a fair lesson because items? locations may change and this leaves the blind person to have to try and try again to find an item that was moved. In anatomy of the eye, the instructor is doing their best to talk about the functions of everything, but a good tactual representation of everything would make it make much more sense. We dissected a cow?s eye which gave me at least a little better understanding, but my partner did most of the work even though I had my hands all over the area where the eye was being dicected. The same instructor teaches O&M and anatomy and is a really nice person but my final comment about them is they adjust scores up so it doesn?t accurately reflect how a student is doing, regardless of if they are passing or failing. 
>>  I have heard from people that have continued passed these introductory classes that in clinical, they are having issues including but not limited to not being able to actively participate because of lack of access to material in a format that can be comprehended. I also have experienced their other issue, the instructors are always saying to have the students use whatever remaining vision they have or to rely on their resource teacher. I do not know a blind student in the undergraduate or graduate level who has successfully graduated the visual disabilities program at Northern Illinois University.
>>  It was my goal since 2013 when someone forwarded info about a scholarship to attend NIU to the National Association of Blind Students to get to Chicago asap so I could learn how to teach students like me in a variety of environments. I kept looking for ways to go to Chicago starting during my CCB training, but my parents wanted me to stay in Colorado because it is nearer to where they live. So I compromised and started my undergraduate work in Greeley at University of Northern Colorado, NIU still on the forefront of my mind. In April of last year, I received an invitation to the spring seminar of the Illinois Association of Blind Students because of my membership on Illinois NFB lists, and I jumped on the cheapest flight I could find. I went out a day early to go to NIU and explore, and 1 of the 7 students I gave mention to showed me around a little but that barely scratched the surface. In the middle of October of 2015 was when I declared to everyone that I could obtain a undergraduate degree at NIU as what I wanted to more quickly advance to a masters in quicker time than I could get it in Greeley, sighting the fact that an undergraduate TVI program didn?t exist in Greeley. I jumped on the cheapest plane, toured around Chicago with a friend for a few days, and enrolled in NIU the last day before I went back to Denver  I was highly impressed with the disability resource center?s services, in particular the fact that they told me they have an on sight Braille transcriber and an electronic text coordinator who would get me all the materials I needed only by me submitting a receipt and making a simple request in person or online including the proof of purchase. It sounded too good to be true, but I quickly found out that this disability resource center really knows their stuff and have been greatful to work with them since. Speaking of them, my case manager put me in contact with some of the people that are higher up in the department and is trying to help me troubleshoot as best as they can, but they said it?s more up to the student to do that and that DRC would be there to assist along the way as necessary. I made it through my 1st winter in Chicago with a 3.4 and went into this semester on a good grade from a summer class.
>>  Only 2 airlines leaving Chicago serve the airport closest to my home. I flew through Denver on United on my way home yesterday marking the start of Thanksgiving break, and as I got on my connecting flight and the safety video began, I had time to reflect on everything to myself and I really missed my times in Denver and thought for a little bit of going  back. Walking outside and up the jet bridge to get my hour?s long flight home from there was what really got me thinking. But I knew I couldn?t easily switch again and I quickly convinced myself of it, with the number of friends I made around Chicago and the promises of being able to be done a year sooner in my new major of rehabilitation services, thereby getting me to my next adventure?Louisiana Tech University?sooner.
>>  Thus said, I have a few question. Is there anything NFBI or national can do to make it so that the visual disabilities program doesn?t discriminate against anyone in future or make them feel ?chased away?? Has anyone you know graduated from there who is blind or low vision? How about what would you recommend to me and the other 3 students who are in the midst of changing majors?did we do the right thing? I am taken aback at how the program has chosen to deal with blind and sighted students alike and was surprised to hear it echoed across many fronts this semester. Can the federation step in and fight for us?or if not us because it may be too late?other blind people who have yet to enter the program? And 1 last question, did anyone around here get the teaching certification another way and then enter tech because that?s what I am now facing. Even if I didn?t get it, I plan to be there in due time for the rehabilitation teaching and o&M programs. That limits the possibilities by a third if I didn?t get a teaching degree though, which makes me disappointed because I thought I had it made at NIU.  Thank you for bearing with me, and I really look forward to any feedback?legal or otherwise.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Macbook Pro 13
>> 
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> 
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------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 19:13:51 -0500
From: Kaley Jemison <kcj21 at bellsouth.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What is the best format for citing in Mla
	format?
Message-ID: <6EDA7336-9220-4092-A13F-A2A3DC734596 at bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

I have also had this issue on several occasions. I told my professor about it and got her permission to list the chapter number instead of the page number.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:59 PM, Emma Mitchell via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I know Emily format but my question is what textbook format do you use to make citing page numbers easier? I know audiobooks do do not have page numbers and I'm running into a major problem 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Kaley Jemison via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Emma, usually, you would just put the main authors last name and then the page number in parentheses following your direct quote. I recommend looking on Purdue owl for work cited page information. Remember, MLA has updated recently they now want to URL in there citation.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 20, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Emma Mitchell via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey everyone,
>>> What is the best way to cite a page number in a text book? What format of textbook do you use? Please help!
>>> Emma
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net
>> 
>> 
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> 
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2016 19:38:24 -0500
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Law School's Power Over Readers for Outside of
	Class Work Paid for by the state
Message-ID: <C5567124BC86428F92DDF3CA3436AC64 at OwnerPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Amy,
I think this is a good question for the blind lawyers list or a blind lawyer 
such as Scott Labarre.

Since people with disablities by definition cannot do something, it seems to 
me a reasonable accommodation to use the assistance of another human to do 
the tasks you cannot do. Hearing impaired people use interpreters, a 
paraplegitic uses a personal care attendant to assist in transfering from 
wheelchairs, and blind people can and should use readers.

So, what you are using the reader for seems perfectly legal and an 
acceptable accommodation.

Also, I'm not sure how your school would find out that you used someone's 
help to do your homework anyway.

So, no I do not see how the school can penalize you for using outside 
assistance to mitigate your disability.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Aimee Harwood via NABS-L
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 10:02 PM
To: andrew edgcumbe via Nabs-L
Cc: Aimee Harwood
Subject: [nabs-l] Law School's Power Over Readers for Outside of Class Work 
Paid for by the state

Greetings everyone,

I am getting a reader who is paid by the state.  This reader will perform 
reading of any material for school purposes that I need them to read.  They 
will also proof any assignments before I hand them in.  I will use them 
during research to help locate something on the screen that is hard to 
locate it is too time consuming to navigate to just to get that one bit of 
info. Basically the individual will assist with anything vision related.

My school assigns a judicial opinion the first semester of the 1L year. All 
graded assignments have restrictions on students getting outside assistance. 
We are not allowed to let anyone see our work or assist us in any way 
regarding the assignment including research. If a student violates any of 
the restrictions, they violate the honor code.

Now that you have the basic situation, can the school penalize me for using 
a reader to assist me in any visual aspect of the assignment? If I use the 
reader to verify the formatting or point out any issues they see that I may 
have missed because I didn't see it?  What about penalizing me for using the 
reader to assist in research to find what I ask them to find  or highlight 
what I ask them to highlight? Basically, can they penalize me for the reader 
performing non-essential tasks on graded assignments?  How much control does 
the school have over the person paid by the state to assist with outside of 
class activities as long as I am the one doing the legal work?



Aimee

Sent from my iPhone
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