[nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Sun Mar 12 23:48:51 UTC 2017

Jen,

I think Elizabeth already explained well that she cannot use braille as an 
older adult with a secondary disability proficiently. Therefore, attending a 
training center does nothing to help her secure the accomodations she needs. 
Further, knowing braille does not preclude the vital need for a reader. As a 
student who used readers a lot at Marymount university, I attest to the 
critical role good readers play in your success to complete exams. Note, 
most schools do not provide braille. I requested braille since I read it 
well, and you know what, Jen?
I was denied that and was told to use a school assigned reader instead since 
the school lacked the equipment and resources to produce braille.
Elizabeth is absolutely right in saying that not all schools will produce 
braille.
I think rather than harping on training, we should support each other and 
answer their questions.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jen via NABS-L
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 2:34 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: Jen
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Hi Elizabeth,

I know your e-mail wasn't directed to me, but I would like to respond.
Attending an NFB center would help you learn alternative techniques, like
braille. This way, when you went back to school, you wouldn't need to have a
reader, and independence would increase greatly for you. . Is there a way
you could ammend the form to to turn into a justification to attend an NFB
center?

Jen

spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
Mohnke via NABS-L
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:05 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Hello Vejas,

Thank you for this suggestion, but I am not quite sure how planning to
attend an NFB training center at some point in the future is going to help
me write an official complaint form I am currently trying to figure out how
to write.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas
Vasiliauskas via NABS-L
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 10:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Vejas Vasiliauskas <alpineimagination at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Have you ever thought of attending a blindness training center such as LCB,
Blind Inc or CCB? You could learn Braille there. Some people will then go
back to the same college with a fresh attitude, or just make a fresh start
at a different college. You could also learn more about advocacy at the
seminars at the centers.
Vejas

> On Mar 11, 2017, at 18:31, Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>
> Hello Jen,
>
> Thank you for your encouragement to continue to learn alternative
techniques as an older non-traditional student. I plan to continue to use
and improve upon my Braille skills while completing the rest of my college
classes. However, I personally do not know of anyone who has learned Braille
as an older adult who is able to use it as a primary mode of communication
in college level classes. Therefore, I feel as though I am simply being
realistic regarding my own personal goals.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jen via
NABS-L
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:23 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jen <spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> Re: "nor do I believe I will ever have the Braille skills to use Braille
in a college-level math class"
>
> I can feel the frustration and pain in your post. It must be difficult
navigating college and blindness at the same time. Although I am not an
older student, I can say it's never too late to learn alternative
techniques.
>
> Jen
>
> spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
Mohnke via NABS-L
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 1:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hello Vejas,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond to my message. I agree with
everything you mention in your email. However, the current personnel of my
college disabilities office does not necessarily agree that my reader needs
to be proficient in math in order to be a reader for math. I have not been
successful in arguing for the use of my own readers instead of the readers
they assign to me from the disabilities office either.
>
> Since I do not know Braille well enough to use in a college level math
class, nor do I believe I will ever have the Braille skills to use Braille
in a college level math class, I do not know how to gain equal access to the
course materials required for my math classes besides the use of a reader
who is proficient in reading math. Therefore, I am looking for credible
sources regarding the definition of a qualified reader as this is the term
that is used in the Americans With Disabilities Act as a reasonable
accommodation.
>
> Right now I feel as though the disabilities office is simply putting up
roadblocks that are only preventing me from being able to use the
accommodations I need to successfully complete my math requirements required
for my degree and transfer requirements. And so now I need to go write the
complaint form that I need to file within my college so maybe I might be
able to receive the accommodations I need to receive equal access to the
course materials required for my math classes.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas
Vasiliauskas via NABS-L
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 6:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Vejas Vasiliauskas <alpineimagination at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
> I didn't know that there was such a thing as a "qualified"
> reader"-I have learned that there are volunteer and paid readers.
> I would think that the ideal math and science reader should be able to
understand how to do all the basic math and science symbols.
> I have a math reader.  I have the book in Braille, but it is to clarify
with diagrams.  She's a freshman at my college also, and took the material I
am currently taking last semester, so it is nice and fresh in her mind.  (As
I mentioned awhile back in one of my other emails to you, my Disability
Services chooses readers by departments, although I fully understand that
yours are not
> willing.)
> I think the 2 best options are:
> 1.  Department of Rehab: How flexible are they? Ideally they should be
able to pay for you to have a human reader if your DSS are unwilling.
> 2.  Find your own reader via church, putting up posters, or maybe even
emailing your Dean? They might be able to connect you with some people.
> Explain that you're looking for someone with basic math and science
abilities.  Then I sofest interviewing them.
> Since you already tried to take that course this semester, you may already
have some worksheets available.  Then you could ask them questions like,
"What does this say?" Or "Can you read this?"
> So I think your ideal reader should:
> 1.  Understand basic math and science skills (if they understand advanced,
even better) 2.  Be willing to work with you and take your commands such as
"slower" and "faster"
> 3.  Not have too heavy an accent.
> Hope this helps,
> Vejas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,NFB Science and Engineering Division List
<nfb-science at nfbnet.org>, "NFB ofMichigan Internet Mailing List"
> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 19:46:34 +0000
> Subject: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hello All,
>
> Please forgive the multiple posts.  However, after sending my previous
email, I was wondering if there might be any kind of standers or guidelines
for reading materials for math or science classes.  If there are any
credible sources for standards or guidelines for reading materials for math
or science classes, perhaps this might help me establish a good definition
of a qualified reader for my math classes.
>
> I understand some of you may believe that Braille is the only way to go in
terms of being able to access materials for math classes.  However, as I
have already indicated, I do not know Braille well enough to use for my math
classes.  And as someone who grew up sighted, most of the time it is just
easier for someone to read me a simple graphic or chart than it is for me to
figure out how to read this information in Braille.
>
> The types of graphics and charts that were included in the math class that
I tried to take this semester included such things as number lines and a
chart that was like an excel spreadsheet listing names of cities down one
Colum and temperatures going down another Colum.  I am not quite sure what
might be included in the other math classes that I need to take to meet the
university math requirement for the university I would like to be able to
transfer to after completing my associates degree.
>
> I am not looking to complete advance math classes here.  I am simply
trying to take what is required to meet the transfer requirements.  However,
I am not quite sure how to go about fulfilling my math requirement when the
disabilities office at the community college that I attend does not appear
to work with me so I can gain equal access to the course required for my
math classes.
>
> I do not know how else to gain access to the course materials required for
my math classes, and so far the college does not agree with me on what
constitutes as a qualified reader.  So again, any assistance anyone could
provide in helping me find a credible source for a good clear definition of
qualified reader would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
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