[nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Mon Mar 13 06:02:05 UTC 2017

totally agree, you have to do what works for you.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carly Mihalakis via NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

> Evening, Elizabeth,
>
> Forget everything. You know what works for you. Personally,  I understand 
> the role of blind people within a social structure, we all can't have 
> eyesight or fulfill a role of almighty sighted person. Don't worry that 
> you use a reader. It's the most social means of accessing printed 
> material, think modeling Federation ideals for Ol'Sighty. Everybody can't 
> just help themselves without guidance.
> You Federation-minded blind people are SSOOOO hard on yourselves already, 
> and in turn, allow the organization to pressure you, talking you out of 
> what has been proven to work best for you in your personal journey, it 
> would seem to me, anyway.
> Car
>
> training center. However, regardless of what my blindness skills may be, 
> my college does not have the means to produce math materials in Braille, 
> and my college uses an inaccessible online learning platform for math 
> classes. Unless any of these things change, I believe using a reader is 
> the best option for me to gain equal access to the course materials for my 
> math classes.
>
>>I believe blind people should be able to choose whatever accommodation 
>>works best for them in any given particular situation. Simply because you 
>>do not believe successful independent blind people should use readers when 
>>the situation calls for it does not necessarily mean that blind people are 
>>any less successful or independent for using readers as an accommodation.
>>
>>I greatly appreciate all the responses I have received on the email list 
>>regarding information that is helpful for completing my complaint form. 
>>However, now that the conversation has shifted to how attending an NFB 
>>training center is a one size fits all solution to every problem that a 
>>blind person faces in life, I will no longer be responding to messages in 
>>this email thread.
>>
>>The National Federation of the Blind continues to issue press releases 
>>regarding the legal assistance they are providing to other blind college 
>>students who face the exact same barriers as me in receiving equal access 
>>to course materials and student services on their campuses. However, I 
>>have never seen any of these press releases question the blindness skills 
>>of these students. Therefore, I do not understand why people feel the need 
>>to do this to me. The only thing this really does is push people away from 
>>being a part of this organization.
>>
>>Warm regards,
>>Elizabeth
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jen via 
>>NABS-L
>>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 2:34 PM
>>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' 
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Cc: Jen <spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>>
>>Hi Elizabeth,
>>
>>I know your e-mail wasn't directed to me, but I would like to respond.
>>Attending an NFB center would help you learn alternative techniques, like 
>>braille. This way, when you went back to school, you wouldn't need to have 
>>a reader, and independence would increase greatly for you. . Is there a 
>>way you could ammend the form to to turn into a justification to attend an 
>>NFB center?
>>
>>Jen
>>
>>spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth 
>>Mohnke via NABS-L
>>Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:05 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>>
>>Hello Vejas,
>>
>>Thank you for this suggestion, but I am not quite sure how planning to 
>>attend an NFB training center at some point in the future is going to help 
>>me write an official complaint form I am currently trying to figure out 
>>how to write.
>>
>>Warm regards,
>>Elizabeth
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas 
>>Vasiliauskas via NABS-L
>>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 10:28 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Cc: Vejas Vasiliauskas <alpineimagination at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>>
>>Have you ever thought of attending a blindness training center such as 
>>LCB, Blind Inc or CCB? You could learn Braille there. Some people will 
>>then go back to the same college with a fresh attitude, or just make a 
>>fresh start at a different college. You could also learn more about 
>>advocacy at the seminars at the centers.
>>Vejas
>>
>> > On Mar 11, 2017, at 18:31, Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Jen,
>> >
>> > Thank you for your encouragement to continue to learn alternative
>>techniques as an older non-traditional student. I plan to continue to use 
>>and improve upon my Braille skills while completing the rest of my college 
>>classes. However, I personally do not know of anyone who has learned 
>>Braille as an older adult who is able to use it as a primary mode of 
>>communication in college level classes. Therefore, I feel as though I am 
>>simply being realistic regarding my own personal goals.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Elizabeth
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jen via
>>NABS-L
>> > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:23 PM
>> > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Cc: Jen <spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>> >
>> > Hi Elizabeth,
>> >
>> > Re: "nor do I believe I will ever have the Braille skills to use
>> > Braille
>>in a college-level math class"
>> >
>> > I can feel the frustration and pain in your post. It must be difficult
>>navigating college and blindness at the same time. Although I am not an 
>>older student, I can say it's never too late to learn alternative 
>>techniques.
>> >
>> > Jen
>> >
>> > spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >
>> >
>> > From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
>>Mohnke via NABS-L
>> > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 1:32 PM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>> >
>> > Hello Vejas,
>> >
>> > Thank you for taking the time to respond to my message. I agree with
>>everything you mention in your email. However, the current personnel of my 
>>college disabilities office does not necessarily agree that my reader 
>>needs to be proficient in math in order to be a reader for math. I have 
>>not been successful in arguing for the use of my own readers instead of 
>>the readers they assign to me from the disabilities office either.
>> >
>> > Since I do not know Braille well enough to use in a college level math
>>class, nor do I believe I will ever have the Braille skills to use Braille 
>>in a college level math class, I do not know how to gain equal access to 
>>the course materials required for my math classes besides the use of a 
>>reader who is proficient in reading math. Therefore, I am looking for 
>>credible sources regarding the definition of a qualified reader as this is 
>>the term that is used in the Americans With Disabilities Act as a 
>>reasonable accommodation.
>> >
>> > Right now I feel as though the disabilities office is simply putting
>> > up
>>roadblocks that are only preventing me from being able to use the 
>>accommodations I need to successfully complete my math requirements 
>>required for my degree and transfer requirements. And so now I need to go 
>>write the complaint form that I need to file within my college so maybe I 
>>might be able to receive the accommodations I need to receive equal access 
>>to the course materials required for my math classes.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Elizabeth
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas
>>Vasiliauskas via NABS-L
>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 6:05 PM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Cc: Vejas Vasiliauskas <alpineimagination at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>> >
>> > Hi Elizabeth,
>> > I didn't know that there was such a thing as a "qualified"
>> > reader"-I have learned that there are volunteer and paid readers.
>> > I would think that the ideal math and science reader should be able to
>>understand how to do all the basic math and science symbols.
>> > I have a math reader.  I have the book in Braille, but it is to
>> > clarify
>>with diagrams.  She's a freshman at my college also, and took the material 
>>I am currently taking last semester, so it is nice and fresh in her mind. 
>>(As I mentioned awhile back in one of my other emails to you, my 
>>Disability Services chooses readers by departments, although I fully 
>>understand that yours are not
>> > willing.)
>> > I think the 2 best options are:
>> > 1.  Department of Rehab: How flexible are they? Ideally they should be
>>able to pay for you to have a human reader if your DSS are unwilling.
>> > 2.  Find your own reader via church, putting up posters, or maybe even
>>emailing your Dean? They might be able to connect you with some people.
>> > Explain that you're looking for someone with basic math and science
>>abilities.  Then I sofest interviewing them.
>> > Since you already tried to take that course this semester, you may
>> > already
>>have some worksheets available.  Then you could ask them questions like, 
>>"What does this say?" Or "Can you read this?"
>> > So I think your ideal reader should:
>> > 1.  Understand basic math and science skills (if they understand
>> > advanced,
>>even better) 2.  Be willing to work with you and take your commands such 
>>as "slower" and "faster"
>> > 3.  Not have too heavy an accent.
>> > Hope this helps,
>> > Vejas
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,NFB Science and Engineering Division List 
>><nfb-science at nfbnet.org>, "NFB ofMichigan Internet Mailing List"
>> > <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
>> > Date sent: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 19:46:34 +0000
>> > Subject: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>> >
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> > Please forgive the multiple posts.  However, after sending my previous
>>email, I was wondering if there might be any kind of standers or 
>>guidelines for reading materials for math or science classes.  If there 
>>are any credible sources for standards or guidelines for reading materials 
>>for math or science classes, perhaps this might help me establish a good 
>>definition of a qualified reader for my math classes.
>> >
>> > I understand some of you may believe that Braille is the only way to
>> > go in
>>terms of being able to access materials for math classes.  However, as I 
>>have already indicated, I do not know Braille well enough to use for my 
>>math classes.  And as someone who grew up sighted, most of the time it is 
>>just easier for someone to read me a simple graphic or chart than it is 
>>for me to figure out how to read this information in Braille.
>> >
>> > The types of graphics and charts that were included in the math class
>> > that
>>I tried to take this semester included such things as number lines and a 
>>chart that was like an excel spreadsheet listing names of cities down one 
>>Colum and temperatures going down another Colum.  I am not quite sure what 
>>might be included in the other math classes that I need to take to meet 
>>the university math requirement for the university I would like to be able 
>>to transfer to after completing my associates degree.
>> >
>> > I am not looking to complete advance math classes here.  I am simply
>>trying to take what is required to meet the transfer requirements. 
>>However, I am not quite sure how to go about fulfilling my math 
>>requirement when the disabilities office at the community college that I 
>>attend does not appear to work with me so I can gain equal access to the 
>>course required for my math classes.
>> >
>> > I do not know how else to gain access to the course materials required
>> > for
>>my math classes, and so far the college does not agree with me on what 
>>constitutes as a qualified reader.  So again, any assistance anyone could 
>>provide in helping me find a credible source for a good clear definition 
>>of qualified reader would be greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Elizabeth
>> > _______________________________________________
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