[NABS-L] Discrimination in college

[Julie McGinnity]

Hi Mikayla,

Nicole has some great advice here.  Documenting everything will be the
key to remaining secure in this kind of situation.  It has been my
experience that disability services offices sometimes bow down to the
professors and allow them to dictate what they do: what kinds of
accommodations a student can receive, what kind of placement a student
gets for an internship, and even whether or not a professor allows a
disabled student in their class.  You're right that disability
services staff should be on your side, but unfortunately, this is not
always the reality.

I think the thing that bothers me the most in this situation is the
child development piece.  They keep snacks out for the kids to eat
throughout the day, so they need for every adult to be able to see and
hear the students eating.  This is discrimination, nothing more,
nothing less.  Requiring that vision or hearing be essential for the
performance of a job where those things don't have to be...  That's
not legal.  And to be quite honest, functioning ears and eyes aren't
infallible.  Fully sighted and hearing people get distracted and don't
pay attention to their senses a good deal of the time.

I wish I knew how to argue that case though because obviously if the
center is still keeping snacks out, they wouldn't see it that way.  If
you pursue the child development course, don't let these excuses scare
you.  It might be more benefitial though to find a classroom or child
development center where you can engage with the children rather than
simply observing, since this will be more useful for you as a blind
person.  You'll have to engage directly as a teacher or social worker
or in any field that involves interacting with children.  Simply
observing won't generally work for you, and getting a sighted
assistant won't really prepare you for that.

Good luck with your formal grievance process.  You are brave, and you
are going down a path many of us wished we had in college.

Julie


On 12/17/19, Nicole Poston via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Mikayla,
> One other piece of advice.  As you go into the formal process, you will want
> to protect yourself and your rights by either A) having a witness attend any
> meetings you have with them, B) recording the meetings but doing so with
> their knowledge because it is my understanding that recording others without
> their knowledge is not always admissible in court, or C) send a detailed
> follow-up email to whomever you met with summarizing all the important
> things you discussed with them and ending it with something like “Does this
> accurately reflect our conversation?”  They will likely not respond but them
> not responding basically shows acceptance of what you wrote.  Plus by
> putting it in writing, it makes it public record.  In fact, I might even use
> this technique even if you do A or B.
> Just a suggestion.
> Nicole
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 16, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Mikayla Gephart via NABS-L
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Good evening Federation family,
>>
>>     First of all, I would like to thank Nicole and Emily for responding to
>> my message. I would also like to thank the rest of you for helping me
>> learn that it is okay to advocate for myself, and that I can “live the
>> life I want”. I am writing to update everyone on the latest developments,
>> but want to respond to one of the messages I received. I am still open to
>> any and all thoughts.
>>
>>     Nicole, your message was extremely informative. While the grievance
>> will only concern the incident with the English class due to the timeline,
>> I am keeping what you said about the Child Development class in mind for
>> the future. I am in complete agreement that the standards for Child
>> Development should only be required for staff, but this school the college
>> partners with requires these standards of observing students as well. This
>> particular school also encourages parents to volunteer in the classroom,
>> so I am guessing this would exclude blind parents. It is that whole issue
>> of children being taken from their blind parents, but in a new form. I
>> also agree that fighting these issues is not as simple as I would hope. To
>> be honest, I have thought about how the Disability Services staff would
>> perceive me, and that’s the only thing that scares me about filing the
>> grievance. However, I feel like I am left with no choice. I love the
>> students and professors, but the administration and Disability Services
>> office need to learn that they cannot pull these things off with me
>> anymore. I have seriously thought about not fighting this battle, but I
>> have had three issues in six months. If I do not speak up beyond informal
>> meetings, what will they try next. Two of the three incidents I mentioned
>> in my previous message directly involved Disability Services, and I spoke
>> with the people involved after each incident. I feel like I have gotten as
>> far as I can with informal meetings.
>>
>>     Today, I met with the Dean of Students (who handles the Disability
>> Grievance Procedure) to discuss filing a formal grievance. I came
>> prepared, knowing that my goal was not to intimidate or attack but to
>> hopefully inspire a change in policies that would improve the experience
>> for all students. I told the dean that I thought the procedure should be
>> adapted so that they are required to discuss any issues with the student
>> and the Disability office before they put in a request for a student to
>> change classes. I said all of this, and the Dean of Students did not
>> disagree with what I said, but I felt she sided more with the Disability
>> Services office and the English department even though she is supposed to
>> be neutral according to the grievance procedures. The Dean of Students
>> requested I meet with the Dean of the Humanities school after our meeting.
>> The Dean of the Humanities school is over the English and Child
>> Development classes. I agreed to the meeting, as the first step of the
>> grievance procedure is to resolve things informally, and I had not met
>> with anyone involved with the request. I want to make a good-faith effort
>> to resolve things informally if at all possible, regardless of my personal
>> opinions. The Dean of Students also said that sometimes the dean over a
>> certain department will meet with department heads and professors to make
>> sure that students are in the most appropriate section of a class to meet
>> their needs. I accepted this, but still expressed that it could have been
>> handled in a manner that respected my input as a student. She did not
>> admit that I was discriminated against, but I knew enough not to expect
>> her to admit it.
>>
>>     After I met with the Dean of Students, I met with the Dean of the
>> Humanities school. She admitted that the professor I originally selected
>> felt overwhelmed with the idea of providing descriptions of visual
>> materials with only a few weeks notice. This is despite the fact that I
>> sent her an email on November 2nd. The professor that was recommended to
>> me by the English department does not teach every semester and has a lot
>> of experience making materials accessible. I said that if they had framed
>> it in that way from the beginning, I would not have a problem. She
>> admitted that  the lack of direct communication with me as the student is
>> part of the problem, and said she wants to improve the process so this
>> does not happen again. She also recommended I take the next required
>> English class with the professor I originally chose, and that with a whole
>> semester to prepare the professor would be ready to provide descriptions.
>> I am prepared to refuse the suggestion, because the professor clearly did
>> not want me in her class and they are simply offering this to appease me.
>>
>>     Besides what I mentioned above, there were two things that annoyed me
>> about my conversation with the Dean of the Humanities School.  For one
>> thing, she said I was never denied entrance into the professor’s class
>> even though that is how it was portrayed to me. She also tried to
>> invalidate my feelings by saying that she is not a lawyer and does not
>> know whether or not it is discrimination, but wanted to focus on how I
>> felt. She was silent when I told her that I felt discriminated against. I
>> knew that they may try to do this, but it still was frustrating.
>>
>>     While I think the meeting was a small success in some ways, I am still
>> not satisfied. I did not file the grievance yet as the Dean of Students
>> wanted me to have these meetings as part of the informal grievance
>> process. However, I am going to proceed with the formal process as soon as
>> possible. The grievance procedure primarily puts the burden of action back
>> on Disability Services (where I feel part of the problem is), but I am
>> hoping that at least this will show them that they cannot do this to me
>> anymore. I appreciate all the advice, and am considering each idea
>> carefully.
>>
>> Happy holidays,
>> Mikayla
>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2019, at 12:31 AM, nmpbrat at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Mikayla,
>>> I'm sorry to hear about your experiences in college.  I can certainly
>>> appreciate and understand your feelings and frustrations, as I have dealt
>>> with discrimination both at the college level and employment level.  To
>>> be candid, in college, my discrimination experience was solely with one
>>> professor and after many sleepless nights, I made the decision not to
>>> take it to the formal level.  In my employment situation, on the other
>>> hand, I spent the past 5 years fighting it in the legal system.
>>> I have some thoughts and things you may want to consider and think about
>>> in each of the situations but please understand, I am in no way trying to
>>> minimize or diminish what you have been through.  I also know though,
>>> that fighting battles such as these aren't as simple as you might think
>>> or as clear cut as you might think, even with the ADA "on your side".
>>>
>>> First, if you decide you want to go through with the formal grievance
>>> process, you will want to go into the process knowing exactly what you
>>> want.  Now, let me explain what I mean by that.  Yes, they'll want to
>>> know your concerns about what has happened in the past to bring you to
>>> this point, although they likely will probably have a pretty good idea.
>>> But, simply telling them what you don't want is not going to be good
>>> enough.  You need to be able to articulate exactly what you do want.  In
>>> other words, what does that look like?  For example, in the case of the
>>> Child Development class...simply telling them that you don't want to be
>>> excluded from it isn't going to be enough.  You will need to come in
>>> prepared with possible remedies or solutions to the problem.  So, if it
>>> were me, I would tell them that to fix the problem, they need to assign
>>> you to a different child development center and one in which does not
>>> allow access to food all day long.  Honestly though, i don't know why the
>>> regulations apply to you as a student observer...they really only should
>>> apply to the employees themselves.  Then, they need to provide you with a
>>> sighted assistant (like someone would have if they were taking a science
>>> class with labs) who can describe to you what they see.  So, instead of
>>> asking the students questions (if the professor feels that it is
>>> inappropriate at this stage), you can then ask the necessary questions to
>>> your sighted assistant during your observations.  I would go on to
>>> explain though, that if you would pursue child development, that you
>>> would handle things in such a way that communication with the kids would
>>> be essential.  As a side note, I am a public school teacher for the past
>>> 18 years, so I had my share of observations to do as well.  So in other
>>> words, they will need to mold the child development program to fit your
>>> needs and provide accommodations as necessary, such as the sighted
>>> assistant, to meet the requirements.  In the case of the observations,
>>> even with a sighted assistant, you will still need to know the right
>>> questions to ask that person in order to get the necessary information
>>> you are required to get.  The child development center they have chosen
>>> can't possibly be the only one in the area, so they need to step out of
>>> their comfort zone and find an alternative....but understand that if you
>>> don't go in asking for it, they aren't going to likely offer something
>>> like this up to you.  Ultimately, there are ways to work around the
>>> requirements of the program, it just might take a little thinking outside
>>> the box.  If your college happens to have faculty who teach courses
>>> specifically about special education, disability studies, etc....you can
>>> always suggest that if your professor in the child development program
>>> feels more comfortable talking with colleagues, that they may get some
>>> ideas from their fellow colleagues as well on how to make things work.
>>>
>>> As to the professor who decided they didn't want you in your class.  Yes,
>>> that is absolutely discriminatory and ridiculous.  With that said, you
>>> probably made the best decision possible by taking the class with the
>>> other instructor.  Forcing the situation, would likely have only made
>>> things hard on you.  It would have punished you more than them.  Again,
>>> if you choose to address this in your grievance, you need to not simply
>>> go in saying that the professor shouldn't be allowed to do it in the
>>> future.  Ask for more concrete specific measures for them to correct.  Be
>>> proactive.  Ask them about changing their protocols and procedures.  For
>>> example, maybe the professor must meet with the student and disability
>>> services representative to discuss the situation before they can make the
>>> request to not have the student in their class.  Maybe you suggest that
>>> disability services provides training to professors about having students
>>> with disabilities and providing accommodations to them, as maybe this
>>> professor is simply not well educated enough and if they had better
>>> training, they would have a better attitude about it.  As a side note,
>>> this "training" idea was actually something I used as part of the legal
>>> settlement with my employer.  Again, don't just tell them what they
>>> didn't do.  Sometimes, people actually need it spelled out for them what
>>> they actually need to do because they simply don't know.
>>>
>>> My final thought is this.  When you take these types of things to a
>>> formal level, it changes the whole landscape of the situation and will
>>> possibly change how you are viewed and perceived by others, including
>>> those in the Disability Services Department....even if you are totally in
>>> the right.  Just know that, right or wrong, it will likely change at
>>> least some individuals' views of you.  Word will likely get out in the
>>> ranks of the professors, especially if you eventually pick a major and
>>> you will be known as the girl who "filed a formal grievance".  I guess my
>>> point is this....just keep in mind that although the formal process could
>>> get you to a place where you get exactly what you need....there are
>>> always two sides to every sword.
>>>
>>> I wish you the best of luck in dealing with a very difficult situation
>>> but I'm confident you will find success in the end.
>>> Take care,
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mikayla Gephart via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Mikayla Gephart <mikgephart at icloud.com>
>>> Sent: Thu, Dec 12, 2019 12:42 pm
>>> Subject: [NABS-L] Discrimination in college
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>    I hope you are all doing well, and that your final exams are going
>>> well. As many of you know, I started my first year of college in August
>>> after nine months at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I have enjoyed my
>>> college experience, but the Disability Services office has been extremely
>>> frustrating.
>>>
>>>      The week after I graduated from CCB in June, I had to attend a
>>> mandatory pre-orientation for college. Despite the fact that I had been
>>> corresponding with the Assistant Director for Disability Services since
>>> April and had sent in my documentation proving I was blind, they were not
>>> prepared for me at all. There were millions of print papers floating
>>> around that were not provided in an accessible format, and they required
>>> I do an online strengths test I had not been told about. I ended up
>>> having someone read everything to me so I could get everything out of the
>>> day, but I was upset. A few days after the reorientation, I met with the
>>> Assistant Director for my intake interview. She apologized and said she
>>> would never let this happen again. I believed her!
>>>
>>>    After I received my schedule for the fall, I sent an email to all my
>>> professors introducing myself. During the week before classes started, I
>>> met with most of my professors. I am still undecided about my major and
>>> career goals, but I mentioned during the pre-orientation that I was
>>> considering majoring in Child Development. The Academic Advising team
>>> chooses schedules for all incoming freshmen based on our preferences as
>>> we mentioned on forms and at the pre-orientation, and they placed me in
>>> the introductory Child Development class. This class has a lab component
>>> at a local private preschool. The college I am attending is also a
>>> private, but they receive Financial Assistance funding from the
>>> government. When I met with my Child Development professor, I was told
>>> that the private school (where all students in this class fulfill their
>>> lab component) refused to allow me to complete my lab there. According to
>>> my professor, the school sited the North Carolina Division of Early
>>> Childhood Development and Education’s safety standards for supervision.
>>> She read out some of the standards, but I do not have a copy. From what
>>> my professor said, the standards say that staff in a school must be able
>>> to “see and hear” children eating. She said that the way the school is
>>> set up is that food is out during all times of the day, not just at lunch
>>> time. She also said that the school interprets this standard to mean that
>>> any adult in the class must be able to see and hear the students eating
>>> in case they choke. I feel like this in itself is wrong on so many
>>> levels! The fact that the state even has this standard is ridiculous, and
>>> the school’s interpretation is just as discriminatory. My professor also
>>> expressed some reservations about my ability to observe the students,
>>> even if the private school allowed me to observe in their school. She was
>>> pretty set on observation being a visual process, but was open to me
>>> reaching out to other teachers to find out how they handled it. I
>>> suggested I would gather information by interacting with the children,
>>> but she said that students observe and write down notes while off to the
>>> side so as not to interfere. We decided that I would take a General
>>> Education class during the fall, which would give us more time to figure
>>> out how to make Child Development work. I agreed, since it was so close
>>> to the start of the semester. I kept it together during the meeting, but
>>> I was devastated! However, I decided to let it go. I was still deciding
>>> on majors and careers anywhere, and it was four days before I was
>>> supposed to move in to the dorm and I wanted to keep focused on that.
>>>
>>>    Most of my first semester of college went without a hitch. I was
>>> provided with all materials in an accessible format, and I enjoyed
>>> getting to know most of my instructors and fellow students.
>>>
>>>    When it came time to register for classes on October 25th, I was
>>> extremely excited. I chose all of my classes carefully, thinking about
>>> how much time I would have in between classes and asking for
>>> recommendations of professors from other students. On November 2nd, I
>>> sent an email to all my professors introducing myself. I heard back from
>>> every professor except for my English professor.
>>>
>>>    On November 25, I was told by the Disability Services office that the
>>> English department requested that I switch to another professor’s class.
>>> The English Department had 23 days from the time of receiving my
>>> introduction email to bring this up. Of course it was right in the middle
>>> of my finals. This could have been handled November 2 with a meeting
>>> including me of course. The reason given was that the professor I chose
>>> uses “visual materials”. I took Statistics this semester, and Statistics
>>> uses a lot of visual material. To me, this seemed like a thinly veiled
>>> excuse to keep me out of her class. I decided to switch to the professor
>>> they recommended because I do not want a professor who does not want me
>>> and because I found out that my new professor is great at making
>>> materials accessible. I am still upset!
>>>
>>>    After I had some time to process the news, I sent a strong email to
>>> the Disability Services staff and the Dean of Students, even using the
>>> word discrimination. The Disability Services staff asked to meet with me
>>> last week, and I came prepared with strong but polite comments.
>>> Unfortunately, they did not seem to understand that this is
>>> discrimination. The Assistant Director came with several guesses, but
>>> never bothered to find out why the English department did not want me in
>>> this professor’s class. One of her guesses was that the Dean of the
>>> Humanities School, who made this request, thought the professor they
>>> recommended would be a better fit because of her experience making
>>> materials accessible, and that she does not think the Dean meant to
>>> discriminate because she is extremely student-centered. I did not feel
>>> like they understood how I feel about this.
>>>
>>>    I feel like I need to speak up about this. I have had three issues so
>>> far. What’s next? I love the professors and students, and want to stay
>>> here. I have gotten them to follow the ADA requirements for railings and
>>> braille signs, so I am getting through somewhat. However, I am still not
>>> satisfied, so am going to file a formal grievance through the college’s
>>> grievance procedures. They need to start following the law, and I will
>>> not allow this to happen again to me or any other blind students. I go
>>> from sadness to anger to determination, and wish things did not have to
>>> exculpate this far. I would love to have positive and informal
>>> relationships with the Disability Services staff for the next three
>>> years, but I need to let them know I am serious. I have lost faith in
>>> informal conversations, so think a formal grievance is the next step. Any
>>> advice or encouragement will be appreciated. This is an extremely
>>> frustrating experience, but I will not back down.
>>>
>>> Mikayla
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-- 
Julie A. McGinnity
MM Vocal Performance, 2015; President, National Federation of the
Blind Performing Arts Division