[nagdu] Accessible Measurements for shots

Garry and Joy Relton relton30857 at cox.net
Wed Dec 3 15:50:38 UTC 2008


Hi Angie 

I gave myself allergy shots at one point and found the method of marking the
plunger on the suringue with notches made by a knife to work quite well. My
doctor came up with the idea and did it for me. When you have to adjust the
amount over a period of time you can have different notches or you can cut
different lengths of something like a q-tip so that you can fit it between
the end of the plunger and the barrel. As an aside, I used a notched
seringue, without the needle to measure medicine for my children when they
were little. It's a lot easier than holding a spoon steady and hoping to get
it in before they put their little hands up and knock it away. 

Best of luck with the allergies. 

Hugs to all and your four-footed partners.

Joy and Bell

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:21 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: nagdu Digest, Vol 44, Issue 27


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Traveling in New York (Ted Shelly)
   2. Re: Allergy shots (Sarah and Loretta)
   3. Re: Allergy shots (Angie Matney)
   4. Re: Allergy shots (Angie Matney)
   5. opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
   6. Re: opinions of other blind people (Hope Paulos)
   7. Re: opinions of other blind people (Sherri)
   8. Re: opinions of other blind people (Jenine Stanley)
   9. Re: New member (Jeffrey Schwartz)
  10. Re: opinions of other blind people (Angie Matney)
  11. Re: opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
  12. Re: opinions of other blind people (Michael Hingson)
  13. Re: opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
  14. Re: opinions of other blind people (solsticesinger)
  15. Re: New member (Marion & Martin)
  16. Re: Last year's FLAGDU convention (Marion & Martin)
  17. Re: New member (Marion & Martin)
  18. Re: opinions of other blind people (Angie Matney)
  19. Re: New member (Hope Paulos)
  20. Re: opinions of other blind people (Wayne Merritt)
  21. Re: opinions of other blind people (Hope Paulos)
  22. Re: you don't look blind and Born and raised in Connecticut
      (Mardi Hadfield)
  23. Other options for those annoying people (Jenine Stanley)
  24. Re: opinions of other blind people (Chasity Jackson)
  25. Re: opinions of other blind people (lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com)
  26. Re: opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
  27. Re: Other options for those annoying people (Marsha)
  28. Re: opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
  29. welcome , funny story- cope with the dopes- (Bunny Davidson)
  30. Re: opinions of other blind people (Charlene Ota)
  31. Re: opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
  32. Re: opinions of other blind people (Marsha)
  33. Re: Traveling in New York (Jeffrey Schwartz)
  34. Re: New member (Jeffrey Schwartz)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:13:59 -0500
From: Ted Shelly <tshelly at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Traveling in New York
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'"	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <436D94F568974BC39422A6F027ED575A at ShellyD>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Michael,

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who seems to spend a significant
amount of money on buying canes.  I have a whole drawer-full of broken ones
that I keep thinking to go through and make one or two whole ones.  

Most people I ask for directions do OK, but I have certainly been sent the
wrong way on occasion.  

Funny thing is, I often get asked for directions myself.  I think they must
figure that a blind guy must really know the territory.  A few weeks ago I
was standing on a corner getting ready to cross 18th Street and a woman
asked me where 18th Street was.  I paused for a second and said "Uh, it's
right here".  "Oh, no", she replies, "I meant where is Broadway?"  I pointed
her in the right direction and went on my way.  

Sometimes I think I should be a tour guide.

All the best,

Ted 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] Traveling in New York

Ted and Jeff,

I lived in New Jersey and worked in the World Trade Center and around NYC
for six years.  I very much enjoyed zipping around the Center and the City
with my fourth and fifth guide dogs Linnie and Roselle.  Linnie became ill
in May, 1999 and it was six months before I met Roselle.

Personally, I found I could travel with either a guide dog or a cane.  I did
find that people did not watch for canes well.  I am fond of saying during
my speeches today that I spent more on buying new canes during 1999 than I
spent on dog food.

I regarded traveling in NYC as an adventure.  It was fun.  When necessary I
was able to find people who could give directions -- another adventure in of
itself.  I was amazed how many people couldn't even read signs to point out
a particular location.  However, I got by with no complaints.

I find the City to be relatively easy to traverse.  The numbers of people
and the amount of traffic is a help in getting around.

Go for it! 


Michael Hingson,
 NSA   
President,
The Michael Hingson Group
84 Bahama Reef
Novato, CA 94949
Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
Fax number (415) 883-6220
Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
Email
info at michaelhingson.com
 <
mailto:
info at michaelhingson.com>
For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and his
consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind persons
please visit < http://www.michaelhingson.com> For information on Guide Dogs
for the Blind please visit < http://www.guidedogs.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Jeff,

I wouldn't call Manhattan a nightmare, more like a frustration.  I love New
York City and its vibrant streams of humanity.  I like to move fast, which
sometimes leads to running into people or getting my cane stepped on (I
break 2 or 3 canes a year this way).  I've heard from some guide dog users
about zipping through crowds and around obstacles and that sounds good to
me. But I also have realistic expectations and I know it will take a lot of
hard work with a guide and even then things won't be perfect.  I love a
challenge and I think I'm ready to take this one on.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:08 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Ted,
This must be real culture shock after living on the West Coast.  People are
so much more relaxed out there.  The area between Boston and NYC is Type A
alley.  Your variety of RP is the rarest, and accounts for only about 5% of
all cases of RP.    Manhattan must be a nightmare for you.  Years ago,
before I even had a cane, I was walking in the Village and almost fell into
one of those openings that restaurants and blubs have in the front leading
down to their basements.  You'll really have to work with your dog to help
you avoid those overhanging branches.  One of my trainers told me that it's
the hardest thing to teach them and the first thing that they forget.  It
makes sense when you consider that their eyes are about 30 inches above
ground level.  If you don't mind me asking, what kind of work do you do in
the city? Hope you had a nice day, Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:22 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Jeff,

I'm originally from Washington State and lived most of my life on the west
coast.  We moved out here in 1990 for my job.  We like it here, but our
families are mostly out West still and we sometimes think about going back.

I know about the wait with Fidelco.  This is not urgent for me, so it is not
a big problem to wait.  I've also applied to Guide Dogs for the Blind, just
in case.  GDB has a much shorter wait and from what I have learned, they
have a good program.  

I have what I believe is referred to as an X-linked version of RP.  The
males on my mother's side of the family get it but the females pass it on. I
have several uncles with the condition and one brother (2 brothers do not
have RP). 

I still have some vision and I do alright with the cane, especially during
the day.  At night I can usually only see light sources, which makes
navigation much slower.  I work in Manhattan and finding my way along
crowded New York sidewalks after dark is not much fun.  I think a dog will
be a great help in those situations and also keep me safer on subway
platforms and street crossings.  I'm also tired of hitting my head on
overhead branches here in Stamford and occasionally smacking into things
like street signs.  I'm sure that no guide dog will be perfect, but it's
bound to be an improvement.  

Happy Thanksgiving to you also.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:19 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi Ted,
Are you a native or did you move to Ct?  If you go up to Vermont or New
Hampshire, they refer to us as flat landers and don't consider Ct. to be
part of Newe England.  You are lucky, if one can use that word, to get to
your age and still be able to get around with a cane.  Perhaps you have the
dominant genetic variety.  Did one of your parents have RP?  Not to
discourage, but it can be a long wait with Fidelco.  They are the only guide
dog school in New England and they also service New York, New Jersey and any
place that one of their graduates has moved and now needs a successor dog. I
have a friend in Chicago.  She got her first dog from Seeing Eye, the
original school, in Morristown, New Jersey.  Her wait was far less than you
can expect from Fidelco, and she was quite pleased with the entire
experience.  It's something to consider. Happy Thanksgiving, Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:09 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi Jeff,

I'm practically a neighbor of yours - I'm just down the road in Stamford.  I
also have RP.  I'm 57 and have been using a cane full time for the last
decade or so and I'm just now working on getting my first guide dog.  I've
applied to Fidelco and I'm hoping they will accept me without too much of a
wait.  Welcome to the list.

Ted 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:28 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi,
I just joined this week and was glad to read the digest.  My name is Jeff
Schwartz.  I am a psychologist and have lived in New Haven by way of
Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Scranton.  I didn't know that I had a significant
visual problem until I was about 20.  At that time I was already legally
blind due to the insidious deterioration of my visual field from Retinitis
Pigmentosa.  At age 61, I'm left with little more than light perception.  I
recently received my third guide dog, Faith, from Fidelco.  They are a
superb organization.  The founders, Charles and Roberta Kaman have been
raising German Shepherd dogs for about 40 years.  Originally they raised
them as show dogs.  The story which I heard is that they started the school
after one of the dogs prevented their young son from running into traffic.
John Byfield was their first trainer.  He was my trainer for my second dog,
Webster.  John is from the "old school".  My wife and I called him the dog
Nazi.  He was really tough, as were all of the early trainers.  The new
breed, if you'll pardon the pun, rely more on positive reinforcement.  I
really liked the in community orientation, as you get four hours a day of
the trainer's undivided attention.  I don't think that there are any bad or
even mediocre schools.  German Shepherds are fantastic dogs.  If I were in
the position to select a pet, it would be a GSD.  The only problem that I
have encountered is that they tend to be dog aggressive.  Fidelco gets its
breeding stock from Germany.  They are only a generation or two away from
being working shepherds.  Every pure bred dog was selectively shaped to
perform a certain task, even lap dogs.  Centuries ago, before central
heating and indoor plumbing people seldom bathed.  As a consequence, they
had fleas.  They would sit with a dog in their lap because, given a choice,
fleas prefer dogs.  Back to German Shepherds and dog aggression.  They were
bred to keep the flock together and protect it from predators.  Today's
German Shepherds are "hard wired" to see other dogs as potential predators.


Like all of you, I have had my share of blind stereotypes tossed my way.
When I was younger, slim and walked with a white cane, I went into a
Wal-Mart's and the greeter asked me if I wanted a wheelchair.  I've been in
restaurants with my wife and had the service person ask her "and what will
he have"   I guess we have all heard, "you don't look blind". 
Anyway, sorry to have gone on at such length.  I'm glad to have joined this
group and I'm sure that I will enjoy participating.  I don't usually talk so
much.  Just ask my spouse.   

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:42 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: New member

Hi Mardi,
I liked the part about "You don't look blind...".  That one had me stumped
for years and years.  I didn't know what people meant by the remark.  I
thoought it was people denying that I was blind. Well, a sighted friend
finally explained the basis of the remark to me.  He said that people look
at a blind person and see the blindness.  People have this view that blind
people are people who rock, jam their fingers or fist into their eye.  They
walk with a stiff-leggeed gait and don't look at people who are talking to
them.  In other words, the crappy stereotypes people think of when you say,
"blind person".

Marti, you used to be a sighted person.  Think back on your sighted days
long before you ever met a blind person. What did your mind conjure up? Now,

me - I've always been visually impaired and I can't and never was able to
see people's faces and the expressions on them.  I had no clue about "look
blind" sinse I've spent a lifetime around blind people.

My friend told me that when someone tells me that I don't "look blind" I
need to take it as a compliment.  The statement really says that you look
normal - like a SIGHTED person!  You and I do not have the so-called "blind
mannerisms" that so many sheltered congenitally blind people display.  You
learned how to be as a sighted child - what was socially acceptable. As a
child, I was taught by my parents how to be in public and that people can
see what I do.  So, you and I behave in a normal socially acceptable manner.

We look at people who speak to us.  We don't poke our eyes with our fingers
or fists.  Our eyes may look pretty normal - well - mine wiggle with
nystagmus.  We rock only to music or while seated in a rocking chair.

I don't remember if you are totally blind or are partially sighted.  Being
in a wheelchair, I can see how people think your guide is a wheelchair
service dog.  There aren't too many of you out there. I know several
visually impaired wheelchair users but they see too much to use a guide dog
and they don't have a service dog, either.

I know it's annoying when people don't know.  People think you are either
fully sighted - "Oh, you must be faking it!" or you are totally blind. 
People still don't seem to grasp the idea of all kinds of partial vision in
between. I tell them that I have enough vision to be dangerous.  We then
have a laugh.

Hope that helps!  Thank God we are normal people who can give the public a
good impression of who blind people are.

Take care and Happy Holidays!

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] service vs therapy dogs and welcome


> Hi every one,   I have had similar experiences with Therapy dog owners.
> They seem to think they know it all. They seem to think,because I am
> in a wheelchair that my dog is not a guide.They can't see beyond the 
> chair. My dog must be a  "wheelchair dog",because I use a wheelchair.
> I am told that

> I
> don't look blind. Can some one tell me what a blind person looks like?
> Do they all look the same? I get so aggravated at these people, that I 
> don't even try to explain. I just roll away and ignore them. There are 
> too
many
> other battles that are more important to take care of.           Welcome
> Ted.  All my guides have been Siberian Huskies except for my current
> trainee,Wanagi. She is a Husky/Shepherd cross, and I adopted her from 
> the pound. I have trained my dogs with the aid of a private trainer.
> I am sure that whatever school you choose, you will get a wonderful, 
> and faithful
> partner.     Have a great day, Mardi and Nala, retired, Wanagi, gdit, and
> Tokala,gdit.
> _______________________________________________
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pc.com
> 


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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:01:13 -0500
From: "Sarah and Loretta" <thedogsmom at growingstrong.org>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Allergy shots
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <21e901c9518b$b028aed0$6501a8c0 at SBLAPTOP>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Oh yikes! I have no idea... I wonder if you could get  a tiny tiny syringe 
and use it to count out measurements...

Sarah J. Blake
http://www.growingstrong.org
sjblake at growingstrong.org 


I'm protected by SpamBrave
http://www.spambrave.com/




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:26:22 -0500
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Allergy shots
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.5253.1227928833.2981.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Sherrill,

The vet (a dermatologist) said that she could pre-fill the syringes if I
used glass syringes. But I don't know how feasible this all is. I do not
live close to her, so I need to be able ot get significant amounts of shots
at one time. The tape idea on the 
syringes is a good one. Thanks for writing with ideas.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:14:30 -0500, Sherrill O'Brien wrote:

>Angie,
>One of my dogs had to have allergy shots, and my vet actually gave me 
>prefilled syringes, so I had no trouble administering the shots 
>independently.  You could ask about that, but if that's not feasible, 
>you might get the vet's office to make a notch on the syringe with a 
>knife so you'll know how far to draw it up.  Or a small piece of tape 
>might work. The problem is that you have to have a bottle with a wide 
>enough mouth to get the seringe all the way in.  You might be able to 
>transfer the liquid into a different container at home.  Just some 
>options to consider.  Good luck, and let us know how you handle this.  
>My vet was very creative at helping me figure out ways of dealing with 
>meds and such.  Hopefully, yours will work with you on this little 
>challenge.

>Sherrill

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>Behalf Of Angie Matney
>Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:49 AM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: [nagdu] Allergy shots


>Hi all,

>Does anyone know of an accessible way to draw up a particular amount 
>into a syringe? Yani has to have allergy shots (among other things, 
>she's allergic to human dander!). I can give the shots, but I don't 
>know how to make sure I'm giving the right amount. I'd appreciate any 
>advice anyone can give.

>Thanks,

>Angie






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r
>izon.net


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>mpmail.net









------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:26:53 -0500
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Allergy shots
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.5254.1227928833.2981.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Alexis,

Yes, please send me any info you have.

Thanks,

Angie

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:27:21 -0800 (PST), Alexis Read wrote:

>Angie,

>I'm so sorry to hear about this.  *hugs*

>I have ideas, but I'm not sure they would work in your particular 
>situation.  Are these allergy shots drawn from a vial like insulin for
people with diabetes?  If so, there are accessible measuring devices out
there.  If you'd like, I can send you info
on these devices off list.

>Hugs again, and give Yani a pat from me.

>Alexis and Julia


>      

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:54:36 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <298CEF6F19D744F285F34394D13BDEAC at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come up quite a
bit lately. I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, all of which
do not have guides, but who are blind. Emma being the little turkey she is,
as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things and just
general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room but on tie
down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way. When here with
just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being around off tie
down. But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various places. Emma
is always fed and taken to park at the right times. I do not beat her, or
nor neglect her. But because these blind people know others who have guides,
and those other people have guides whom are free when people are around, and
there guides can do what they please. I was threaten to be reported to my
school. Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my saying, that
because they do not have guides then therefore they have no opinion because
until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know its do and
don'ts then they can not say any thing. I do not feel I am doint any thing
wrong. She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very happy. But why is
that people who are blind, who think they know others who have guides, can
tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to do in
different situations. This really really bugs me to no end. I always take
the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a guide, but
there are just some of those blind people that think they know it all about
every thing when it comes to blindness. What do you all do in these
situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me up over my
guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did not because
I did not want to ruin the fun. Never mind that, please share with me what
you would have done? 
Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
Marsha and Emma

 

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database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:20:43 -0500
From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>,	nagdu at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
	<20081128201828.KMMJ11428.hrndva-omta02.mail.rr.com at BrailleNote>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Marsha.  I probably would have done the same thing if I were 
in your situation.  If your pup has a tendancy to bug people and 
get into their food, keeping her out of the way is good.  What 
kind of dog is emma, which breed? I'd try to work with her on 
this issue, but you did the right thing.  I also had someone who 
was blind come up to me and tell me how to do things with my dog- 
that they'd seen many people with dogs and none did what I did.  
It doesn't matter.  What matters is that each dog is different 
and needs to be handled differently.  I'm the type of pouson, 
that if someone, blind or sighted, comes between my guide and  
me, they'll definitely be educated.  I won't hesitate to tell 
them (at first in a poliffe manner, then if they're insistant, 
not so polite) what I think.  Then, if they continue to persist 
on expressing their opinions and argue with me, I'd ask them to 
leave my home.  I don't need to be treated like that, especially 
if I'm opening my home to these people.
Anyway, don't let it bother you too much, unount it happens again 
(the same person.  Then it's time to educate them.
Take care.
Hope and Beignet

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:54:36 -0500
>Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

>Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come
up quite a
>bit lately.  I opened my home to a group of people last weekend,
all of which
>do not have guides, but who are blind.  Emma being the little
turkey she is,
>as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things
and just
>general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room
but on tie
>down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way.  When
here with
>just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being
around off tie
>down.  But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various
places.  Emma
>is always fed and taken to park at the right times.  I do not
beat her, or
>nor neglect her.  But because these blind people know others who
have guides,
>and those other people have guides whom are free when people are
around, and
>there guides can do what they please.  I was threaten to be
reported to my
>school.  Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my
saying, that
>because they do not have guides then therefore they have no
opinion because
>until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know
its do and
>don'ts then they can not say any thing.  I do not feel I am doint
any thing
>wrong.  She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very
happy.  But why is
>that people who are blind, who think they know others who have
guides, can
>tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to
do in
>different situations.  This really really bugs me to no end.  I
always take
>the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a
guide, but
>there are just some of those blind people that think they know it
all about
>every thing when it comes to blindness.  What do you all do in
these
>situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me
up over my
>guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did
not because
>I did not want to ruin the fun.  Never mind that, please share
with me what
>you would have done?
>Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
>Marsha and Emma



>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus signature
>database 3650 (20081128) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com



>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulo
s%40maine.edu



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:18:47 -0500
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <004401c95196$f5381f50$6701a8c0 at owner6f8520fac>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

I look at this in much the same way as people who are not parents telling me

what to do with my children. Just politely thank them, but tell them that 
unless they too own a guide dog, they really can't voice a valid opinion. Or

just say thanks for your thoughts and go on and do what you think is best. 
Your school knows you and how you treat your dog. Don't worry too much.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:54 PM
Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


> Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come up 
> quite
> a
> bit lately. I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, all of 
> which
> do not have guides, but who are blind. Emma being the little turkey she 
> is,
> as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things and just
> general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room but on 
> tie
> down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way. When here with
> just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being around off tie
> down. But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various places. Emma
> is always fed and taken to park at the right times. I do not beat her, or
> nor neglect her. But because these blind people know others who have 
> guides,
> and those other people have guides whom are free when people are around, 
> and
> there guides can do what they please. I was threaten to be reported to my
> school. Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my saying, that
> because they do not have guides then therefore they have no opinion 
> because
> until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know its do and
> don'ts then they can not say any thing. I do not feel I am doint any thing
> wrong. She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very happy. But why 
> is
> that people who are blind, who think they know others who have guides, can
> tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to do in
> different situations. This really really bugs me to no end. I always take
> the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a guide, but
> there are just some of those blind people that think they know it all 
> about
> every thing when it comes to blindness. What do you all do in these
> situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me up over 
> my
> guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did not 
> because
> I did not want to ruin the fun. Never mind that, please share with me what
> you would have done?
> Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
> Marsha and Emma
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 3650 (20081128) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/flmom2006%40gmail.com





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:43:09 -0500
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <F488CE47AC114155A5047AF9EFF5124A at dragonslayer>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

These are probably the same people who would threaten to call your school if
you'd allowed your dog freedom and she'd gotten into their food and drinks.
<sigh> 

I probably would have written the number of my school in large print and
braille for that person and encouraged him/her to call ASAP. 

 Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:00:34 -0500
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <000001c9519c$5bd518d0$6601a8c0 at D1ZCT2B1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Thanks Julie.  Nice to meet you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J.
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:50 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Welcome Jeff!

Welcome to the list.  I'm Julie, the moderator.  By the time my next guide 
dog is ready I will have gone two years between dogs.  Longer than I ever 
thought, but all good things come to those who wait or some sort of thing 
like that. *smile*

Welcome,
Julie 



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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:58:08 -0500
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.5255.1227928833.2981.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Marsha,

I know sometimes it may seem that way, but blind people truly don't have a
monopoly on judgmentalism. Having said that, I know exactly what you're
talking about. What would I have done? I'd have given them TSE's number and
told them to call 
during regular business hours. Then, if they actually bothered to call,
someone at the school could have set them straight. You know that no one at
TSE is going to blame you for keeping your relatively young dog on tiedown
in a specific situation.

Best,

Angie








------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:04:44 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <9A6EFA0EF3C143FFB63E0B71946F4903 at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Emma is a Shepard, and never the mind that I have not even been in this
apartment but less than two months, that we are still a very new team, not
even a year yet. But there are a lot of things I am working on her with now
because of this situation in question. At the end of the weekend with these
particular people to whom were in my home, they were encouraging her to get
on my futon, now when we go to someone else home she sees fit to jump up on
the couch, as well I am having to always tell her down off my futon now.
Thanks 
marsha 


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users;
nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

Hi Marsha.  I probably would have done the same thing if I were 
in your situation.  If your pup has a tendancy to bug people and 
get into their food, keeping her out of the way is good.  What 
kind of dog is emma, which breed? I'd try to work with her on 
this issue, but you did the right thing.  I also had someone who 
was blind come up to me and tell me how to do things with my dog- 
that they'd seen many people with dogs and none did what I did.  
It doesn't matter.  What matters is that each dog is different 
and needs to be handled differently.  I'm the type of pouson, 
that if someone, blind or sighted, comes between my guide and  
me, they'll definitely be educated.  I won't hesitate to tell 
them (at first in a poliffe manner, then if they're insistant, 
not so polite) what I think.  Then, if they continue to persist 
on expressing their opinions and argue with me, I'd ask them to 
leave my home.  I don't need to be treated like that, especially 
if I'm opening my home to these people.
Anyway, don't let it bother you too much, unount it happens again 
(the same person.  Then it's time to educate them.
Take care.
Hope and Beignet

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:54:36 -0500
>Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

>Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come
up quite a
>bit lately.  I opened my home to a group of people last weekend,
all of which
>do not have guides, but who are blind.  Emma being the little
turkey she is,
>as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things
and just
>general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room
but on tie
>down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way.  When
here with
>just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being
around off tie
>down.  But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various
places.  Emma
>is always fed and taken to park at the right times.  I do not
beat her, or
>nor neglect her.  But because these blind people know others who
have guides,
>and those other people have guides whom are free when people are
around, and
>there guides can do what they please.  I was threaten to be
reported to my
>school.  Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my
saying, that
>because they do not have guides then therefore they have no
opinion because
>until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know
its do and
>don'ts then they can not say any thing.  I do not feel I am doint
any thing
>wrong.  She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very
happy.  But why is
>that people who are blind, who think they know others who have
guides, can
>tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to
do in
>different situations.  This really really bugs me to no end.  I
always take
>the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a
guide, but
>there are just some of those blind people that think they know it
all about
>every thing when it comes to blindness.  What do you all do in
these
>situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me
up over my
>guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did
not because
>I did not want to ruin the fun.  Never mind that, please share
with me what
>you would have done?
>Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
>Marsha and Emma



>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
virus signature
>database 3650 (20081128) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com



>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulo
s%40maine.edu

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40gmail.com
 

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database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 




------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:06:40 -0800
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:
	
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAClzMlIk5BNEiyQIZUQSL03CgAAAEAAAAA5EdtC8RClBo3YkAhY8
xF4BAAAAAA==@michaelhingson.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I'm with Genine.  I have had many occasions where some "expert" decided to
inform me of my short comings concerning working with my guide dog.  It is
difficult to get these individuals to understand that perhaps we know what
we are doing.

Now days I simply refer them to my web site to read the journal I have begun
concerning my adventures with Africa.  I plan to include other discussions
about dog training and the human-animal bond in order to provide another
place where people hopefully can go to learn a bit of reality.

Marsha, you are doing the right thing.  You know what is best for your dog.
I, like Genine, encourage you to give people the phone# of your school.  If
the school is doing its job perhaps anyone who calls will turn into a donor.
I have made that happen more than once.


Cheers,



Michael Hingson,
 NSA   
President,
The Michael Hingson Group
84 Bahama Reef
Novato, CA 94949
Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
Fax number (415) 883-6220
Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
Email 
info at michaelhingson.com
 <
mailto:
info at michaelhingson.com>
For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and his
consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind persons
please visit < http://www.michaelhingson.com> For information on Guide Dogs
for the Blind please visit < http://www.guidedogs.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 12:43 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

These are probably the same people who would threaten to call your school if
you'd allowed your dog freedom and she'd gotten into their food and drinks.
<sigh> 

I probably would have written the number of my school in large print and
braille for that person and encouraged him/her to call ASAP. 

 Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
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.com




------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:13:40 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <E45D9C064D8A44B5A9223B139E39FA68 at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Oh I know that SE would have told them that if the dog is working well, if
they are being fed and parked, and seem to be happy then whatever. It just
seems I have run into this much more here than any where else. I should make
up SE cards and hand them to a person when they try to do this to me. 

But I guess as a good handler, I say good because I think I am very good
with my puppy, that when ever people say something to me it makes me feel
guilty. It makes me question what I am doing, how I am doing it, and so on.
I just do not want to be wrong, I am on my second guide, and the first was
retired, and yes there is a lot of guilt there. I just want to be doing the
best. So for me it is a fine line between being right knowing what I am
doing right is really right for me and then defending what is right. I do
not know if that makes any sense? 
Marsha 



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:58 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

Hi Marsha,

I know sometimes it may seem that way, but blind people truly don't have a
monopoly on judgmentalism. Having said that, I know exactly what you're
talking about. What would I have done? I'd have given them TSE's number and
told them to call 
during regular business hours. Then, if they actually bothered to call,
someone at the school could have set them straight. You know that no one at
TSE is going to blame you for keeping your relatively young dog on tiedown
in a specific situation.

Best,

Angie






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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/queen.marsha.lindsey%
40gmail.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 




------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:46:14 -0600
From: "solsticesinger" <solsticesinger at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <0178AD7913C34C90B1D7A50A135863A7 at shannon>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Marsha,

You know your dog best. You also know what behaviors you are and are not 
willing to accept from her. So, if you find it useful to keep her on tie 
down, I would say that is the right thing to do.

Personally, I try not to tie Caroline down excessively, just because she 
doesn't need it. She behaves herself, and doesn't make too much of a 
nuisance of herself. However, I have found, especially when another guide 
dog enters my home, some time on leash or tie down works well.

Shannon and Caroline
Who can heal, but one who has healed herself?
Who can know, but one who has asked and sought?
Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way?
--ancient French proverb

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come up quite a
bit lately. I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, all of which
do not have guides, but who are blind. Emma being the little turkey she is,
as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things and just
general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room but on tie
down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way. When here with
just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being around off tie
down. But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various places. Emma
is always fed and taken to park at the right times. I do not beat her, or
nor neglect her. But because these blind people know others who have guides,
and those other people have guides whom are free when people are around, and
there guides can do what they please. I was threaten to be reported to my
school. Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my saying, that
because they do not have guides then therefore they have no opinion because
until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know its do and
don'ts then they can not say any thing. I do not feel I am doint any thing
wrong. She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very happy. But why is
that people who are blind, who think they know others who have guides, can
tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to do in
different situations. This really really bugs me to no end. I always take
the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a guide, but
there are just some of those blind people that think they know it all about
every thing when it comes to blindness. What do you all do in these
situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me up over my
guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did not because
I did not want to ruin the fun. Never mind that, please share with me what
you would have done? Thanks in advance for the thoughts, Marsha and Emma



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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:05:35 -0500
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <003001c951ad$d2bfd870$6401a8c0 at marion475ae1fe>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
	reply-type=original

Jeff,
    I enjoy traveling; however, because of the need to find someone to care 
for our dogs, we don't do as many overnight trips as we would like. Prior to

next year's convention, Merry and I are going to take a week for our 
honeymoon and stay on mackinaw Island.
    BTW, I wanted to ask what type of psychology you practice. I am a 
behavioral counselor, specializing in hypnotherapy for health and personal 
enhancement. Issues like smoking cessation weight management,stress 
management, and athletic enhancement.

Fraternally,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member


> Thanks Marion,
> I hadn't figured in the complications of travelling.  Do you take 
> Louisa with you on trips?  I travel very little.  My wife has some 
> serious chronic medical problems, and I hate to leave her alone.
> Better get ready for work,
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:37 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
> Jeffrey,
>    No, I haven't started the application process yet. As I said, I'm 
> not going to get another guide until Louiza is gone. Merry thinks 
> Louiza would handle it well, but having dogs that need to be left home 
> while traveling makes it difficult to do so. So, for now, I will work 
> Louiza when she wants to and use my cane when she doesn't.
>    Our convention will be held in Detroit, Michigan July 4 - 9. The annual
> meetings of the National Association of Guide Dog Users are held at the
> convention, generally on the first and third seminar days  (Saturday &
> Monday this year). The NFB also has a Human Services Division for those in
> the fields of Counseling that you may be interested in. the Convention is 
> a
> life-changing experience if you have never been to one and what my wife
> calls "a shot of NFB-12"! It is very motivating and energizing! I hope you
> are able to make it!
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
>
>> Marion,
>> You certainly have quite a pack of dogs.  I was eight months between 
>> my second and third dogs and took some nasty falls.  Have you started 
>> the application process for your next dog?  Not much difference 
>> between three and four.  I had my retired first and active second at 
>> the same time. They seem to be very sensitive to the other's ability 
>> to run and play and are quite respectful of it.  When is the 
>> convention?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:17 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>>
>> Jeffrey,
>>    My pup, Louiza, is a 12-year-old Collie/Shepherd cross from 
>> Southeastern
>>
>> Guide Dogs in Palmetto, florida. My wife also has a SEGDI guide dog, 
>> a Vizsala named Sydney. We also have a pet dog who rules the pack - a 
>> Corgi mix named Joy.Sydney is retired and Louiza is semi-retired. I 
>> work her at least once a week, using my cane most of the time. I 
>> probably won't get another guide dog until Louiza is gone. She is 
>> very healthy, except a bit of
>>
>> arthritis in her spine, causing a little weakness in her hind 
>> quarters. This
>>
>> makes it challenging for her to get up stairs and onto some buses.
>>    Do you think you might be able to make our next national 
>> Convention in detroit? It would be great to meet you and for you to 
>> get acquainted with other people you chat with on this list!
>>
>> Fraternally,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>>
>>
>>> Thanks Marion.  I hope that you have a great holiday.  What is your
>>> dog's
>>> name, and where did you get him/her?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:05 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>>>
>>> Jeffrey,
>>>    Welcome to the NAGDU list. I am sure you will find a great deal 
>>> of information and support here.
>>>
>>> Fraternally,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I just joined this week and was glad to read the digest.  My name 
>>>> is Jeff Schwartz.  I am a psychologist and have lived in New Haven 
>>>> by way of Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Scranton.  I didn't know that I 
>>>> had a significant
>>>> visual problem until I was about 20.  At that time I was already 
>>>> legally
>>>> blind due to the insidious deterioration of my visual field from
>>>> Retinitis
>>>> Pigmentosa.  At age 61, I'm left with little more than light 
>>>> perception.
>>>> I
>>>> recently received my third guide dog, Faith, from Fidelco.  They are a
>>>> superb organization.  The founders, Charles and Roberta Kaman have been
>>>> raising German Shepherd dogs for about 40 years.  Originally they 
>>>> raised
>>>> them as show dogs.  The story which I heard is that they started the
>>>> school
>>>> after one of the dogs prevented their young son from running into
>>>> traffic.
>>>> John Byfield was their first trainer.  He was my trainer for my second
>>>> dog,
>>>> Webster.  John is from the "old school".  My wife and I called him the
>>>> dog
>>>> Nazi.  He was really tough, as were all of the early trainers.  The new
>>>> breed, if you'll pardon the pun, rely more on positive reinforcement. 
>>>> I
>>>> really liked the in community orientation, as you get four hours a day
>>>> of
>>>> the trainer's undivided attention.  I don't think that there are any 
>>>> bad
>>>> or
>>>> even mediocre schools.  German Shepherds are fantastic dogs.  If I were
>>>> in
>>>> the position to select a pet, it would be a GSD.  The only problem that
>>>> I
>>>> have encountered is that they tend to be dog aggressive.  Fidelco gets
>>>> its
>>>> breeding stock from Germany.  They are only a generation or two away
>>>> from
>>>> being working shepherds.  Every pure bred dog was selectively shaped to
>>>> perform a certain task, even lap dogs.  Centuries ago, before central
>>>> heating and indoor plumbing people seldom bathed.  As a consequence,
>>>> they
>>>> had fleas.  They would sit with a dog in their lap because, given a
>>>> choice,
>>>> fleas prefer dogs.  Back to German Shepherds and dog aggression.  They
>>>> were
>>>> bred to keep the flock together and protect it from predators.  Today's
>>>> German Shepherds are "hard wired" to see other dogs as potential
>>>> predators.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Like all of you, I have had my share of blind stereotypes tossed my
>>>> way.
>>>> When I was younger, slim and walked with a white cane, I went into a
>>>> Wal-Mart's and the greeter asked me if I wanted a wheelchair.  I've 
>>>> been
>>>> in
>>>> restaurants with my wife and had the service person ask her "and what
>>>> will
>>>> he have"   I guess we have all heard, "you don't look blind".
>>>> Anyway, sorry to have gone on at such length.  I'm glad to have joined
>>>> this
>>>> group and I'm sure that I will enjoy participating.  I don't usually
>>>> talk
>>>> so
>>>> much.  Just ask my spouse.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:42 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: New member
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mardi,
>>>> I liked the part about "You don't look blind...".  That one had me 
>>>> stumped for years and years.  I didn't know what people meant by 
>>>> the remark.  I thoought it was people denying that I was blind. 
>>>> Well, a sighted friend finally explained the basis of the remark to 
>>>> me.  He said that people look
>>>> at a blind person and see the blindness.  People have this view that
>>>> blind
>>>> people are people who rock, jam their fingers or fist into their eye.
>>>> They
>>>> walk with a stiff-leggeed gait and don't look at people who are talking
>>>> to
>>>> them.  In other words, the crappy stereotypes people think of when you
>>>> say,
>>>> "blind person".
>>>>
>>>> Marti, you used to be a sighted person.  Think back on your sighted
>>>> days
>>>> long before you ever met a blind person. What did your mind conjure up?
>>>> Now,
>>>>
>>>> me - I've always been visually impaired and I can't and never was 
>>>> able to see people's faces and the expressions on them.  I had no 
>>>> clue about "look
>>>> blind" sinse I've spent a lifetime around blind people.
>>>>
>>>> My friend told me that when someone tells me that I don't "look 
>>>> blind"
>>>> I
>>>> need to take it as a compliment.  The statement really says that you
>>>> look
>>>> normal - like a SIGHTED person!  You and I do not have the so-called
>>>> "blind
>>>> mannerisms" that so many sheltered congenitally blind people display.
>>>> You
>>>> learned how to be as a sighted child - what was socially acceptable. As
>>>> a
>>>> child, I was taught by my parents how to be in public and that people
>>>> can
>>>> see what I do.  So, you and I behave in a normal socially acceptable
>>>> manner.
>>>>
>>>> We look at people who speak to us.  We don't poke our eyes with our 
>>>> fingers or fists.  Our eyes may look pretty normal - well - mine 
>>>> wiggle with nystagmus.  We rock only to music or while seated in a 
>>>> rocking chair.
>>>>
>>>> I don't remember if you are totally blind or are partially sighted. 
>>>> Being in a wheelchair, I can see how people think your guide is a 
>>>> wheelchair service dog.  There aren't too many of you out there. I 
>>>> know several visually impaired wheelchair users but they see too 
>>>> much to use a guide dog
>>>> and they don't have a service dog, either.
>>>>
>>>> I know it's annoying when people don't know.  People think you are 
>>>> either fully sighted - "Oh, you must be faking it!" or you are 
>>>> totally blind. People still don't seem to grasp the idea of all 
>>>> kinds of partial vision
>>>> in
>>>> between. I tell them that I have enough vision to be dangerous.  We 
>>>> then
>>>> have a laugh.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps!  Thank God we are normal people who can give the
>>>> public
>>>> a
>>>> good impression of who blind people are.
>>>>
>>>> Take care and Happy Holidays!
>>>>
>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:52 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] service vs therapy dogs and welcome
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi every one,   I have had similar experiences with Therapy dog 
>>>>> owners.
>>>>> They seem to think they know it all. They seem to think,because I 
>>>>> am
>>>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>> wheelchair that my dog is not a guide.They can't see beyond the chair.
>>>>> My
>>>>> dog must be a  "wheelchair dog",because I use a wheelchair. I am told
>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't look blind. Can some one tell me what a blind person looks 
>>>>> like? Do they all look the same? I get so aggravated at these 
>>>>> people, that I don't
>>>>> even try to explain. I just roll away and ignore them. There are too
>>>>> many
>>>>> other battles that are more important to take care of.
>>>>> Welcome
>>>>> Ted.  All my guides have been Siberian Huskies except for my current
>>>>> trainee,Wanagi. She is a Husky/Shepherd cross, and I adopted her from
>>>>> the
>>>>> pound. I have trained my dogs with the aid of a private trainer.  I am
>>>>> sure
>>>>> that whatever school you choose, you will get a wonderful, and 
>>>>> faithful
>>>>> partner.     Have a great day, Mardi and Nala, retired, Wanagi, gdit,
>>>>> and
>>>>> Tokala,gdit.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lindagwizdak%40
> people
>>>> pc.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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> %40sbc
>>>> global.net
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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> verizo
>>> n.net
>>>
>>>
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>>
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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:09:32 -0500
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Last year's FLAGDU convention
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <004501c951ae$5feb3820$6401a8c0 at marion475ae1fe>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
	reply-type=original

Jenine,
    It wasn't a tourism spot. The key word was "from"; as in, not there any 
more! (smile) It's my weird sense of humor!

Fraternally,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Last year's FLAGDU convention


>I do love how  anyone who lives or has lived in Florida automatically  
>becomes part of its extensive tourism bureau with comments like 
>Marion's.  <grin>
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:11:39 -0500
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <005001c951ae$abd4d020$6401a8c0 at marion475ae1fe>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
	reply-type=original

Ted,
    Did you kno we have a re-energized guide dog users division in New York.

margo Downey is the president and is on this list. NYAGDU has its own list, 
as well.

Peace!

marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ted Shelly" <tshelly at optonline.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member


> Jeff,
>
> I wouldn't call Manhattan a nightmare, more like a frustration.  I 
> love
> New
> York City and its vibrant streams of humanity.  I like to move fast, which
> sometimes leads to running into people or getting my cane stepped on (I
> break 2 or 3 canes a year this way).  I've heard from some guide dog users
> about zipping through crowds and around obstacles and that sounds good to
> me. But I also have realistic expectations and I know it will take a lot 
> of
> hard work with a guide and even then things won't be perfect.  I love a
> challenge and I think I'm ready to take this one on.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:08 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
> Ted,
> This must be real culture shock after living on the West Coast.  
> People
> are
> so much more relaxed out there.  The area between Boston and NYC is Type A
> alley.  Your variety of RP is the rarest, and accounts for only about 5% 
> of
> all cases of RP.    Manhattan must be a nightmare for you.  Years ago,
> before I even had a cane, I was walking in the Village and almost fell 
> into
> one of those openings that restaurants and blubs have in the front leading
> down to their basements.  You'll really have to work with your dog to help
> you avoid those overhanging branches.  One of my trainers told me that 
> it's
> the hardest thing to teach them and the first thing that they forget.  It
> makes sense when you consider that their eyes are about 30 inches above
> ground level.  If you don't mind me asking, what kind of work do you do in
> the city?
> Hope you had a nice day,
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Ted Shelly
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:22 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
> Jeff,
>
> I'm originally from Washington State and lived most of my life on the 
> west coast.  We moved out here in 1990 for my job.  We like it here, 
> but our families are mostly out West still and we sometimes think 
> about going back.
>
> I know about the wait with Fidelco.  This is not urgent for me, so it 
> is
> not
> a big problem to wait.  I've also applied to Guide Dogs for the Blind, 
> just
> in case.  GDB has a much shorter wait and from what I have learned, they
> have a good program.
>
> I have what I believe is referred to as an X-linked version of RP.  
> The males on my mother's side of the family get it but the females 
> pass it on. I have several uncles with the condition and one brother 
> (2 brothers do not have RP).
>
> I still have some vision and I do alright with the cane, especially 
> during the day.  At night I can usually only see light sources, which 
> makes navigation much slower.  I work in Manhattan and finding my way 
> along crowded New York sidewalks after dark is not much fun.  I think 
> a dog will be a great help in those situations and also keep me safer 
> on subway platforms and street crossings.  I'm also tired of hitting 
> my head on overhead branches here in Stamford and occasionally 
> smacking into things like street signs.  I'm sure that no guide dog 
> will be perfect, but it's bound to be an improvement.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to you also.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:19 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
> Hi Ted,
> Are you a native or did you move to Ct?  If you go up to Vermont or 
> New Hampshire, they refer to us as flat landers and don't consider Ct. 
> to be part of Newe England.  You are lucky, if one can use that word, 
> to get to your age and still be able to get around with a cane.  
> Perhaps you have the dominant genetic variety.  Did one of your 
> parents have RP?  Not to discourage, but it can be a long wait with 
> Fidelco.  They are the only guide
> dog school in New England and they also service New York, New Jersey and 
> any
> place that one of their graduates has moved and now needs a successor dog.
> I have a friend in Chicago.  She got her first dog from Seeing Eye, the
> original school, in Morristown, New Jersey.  Her wait was far less than 
> you
> can expect from Fidelco, and she was quite pleased with the entire
> experience.  It's something to consider.
> Happy Thanksgiving,
> Jeff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ted Shelly
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:09 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I'm practically a neighbor of yours - I'm just down the road in 
> Stamford.
> I
> also have RP.  I'm 57 and have been using a cane full time for the last
> decade or so and I'm just now working on getting my first guide dog.  I've
> applied to Fidelco and I'm hoping they will accept me without too much of 
> a
> wait.  Welcome to the list.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jeffrey Schwartz
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:28 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
>
> Hi,
> I just joined this week and was glad to read the digest.  My name is 
> Jeff Schwartz.  I am a psychologist and have lived in New Haven by way 
> of Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Scranton.  I didn't know that I had a 
> significant visual problem until I was about 20.  At that time I was 
> already legally blind due to the insidious deterioration of my visual 
> field from Retinitis Pigmentosa.  At age 61, I'm left with little more 
> than light perception. I
> recently received my third guide dog, Faith, from Fidelco.  They are a
> superb organization.  The founders, Charles and Roberta Kaman have been
> raising German Shepherd dogs for about 40 years.  Originally they raised
> them as show dogs.  The story which I heard is that they started the 
> school
> after one of the dogs prevented their young son from running into traffic.
> John Byfield was their first trainer.  He was my trainer for my second 
> dog,
> Webster.  John is from the "old school".  My wife and I called him the dog
> Nazi.  He was really tough, as were all of the early trainers.  The new
> breed, if you'll pardon the pun, rely more on positive reinforcement.  I
> really liked the in community orientation, as you get four hours a day of
> the trainer's undivided attention.  I don't think that there are any bad 
> or
> even mediocre schools.  German Shepherds are fantastic dogs.  If I were in
> the position to select a pet, it would be a GSD.  The only problem that I
> have encountered is that they tend to be dog aggressive.  Fidelco gets its
> breeding stock from Germany.  They are only a generation or two away from
> being working shepherds.  Every pure bred dog was selectively shaped to
> perform a certain task, even lap dogs.  Centuries ago, before central
> heating and indoor plumbing people seldom bathed.  As a consequence, they
> had fleas.  They would sit with a dog in their lap because, given a 
> choice,
> fleas prefer dogs.  Back to German Shepherds and dog aggression.  They 
> were
> bred to keep the flock together and protect it from predators.  Today's
> German Shepherds are "hard wired" to see other dogs as potential 
> predators.
>
>
> Like all of you, I have had my share of blind stereotypes tossed my 
> way. When I was younger, slim and walked with a white cane, I went 
> into a Wal-Mart's and the greeter asked me if I wanted a wheelchair.  
> I've been in restaurants with my wife and had the service person ask 
> her "and what will
> he have"   I guess we have all heard, "you don't look blind".
> Anyway, sorry to have gone on at such length.  I'm glad to have joined
> this
> group and I'm sure that I will enjoy participating.  I don't usually talk 
> so
> much.  Just ask my spouse.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:42 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: New member
>
> Hi Mardi,
> I liked the part about "You don't look blind...".  That one had me 
> stumped for years and years.  I didn't know what people meant by the 
> remark.  I thoought it was people denying that I was blind. Well, a 
> sighted friend finally explained the basis of the remark to me.  He 
> said that people look at a blind person and see the blindness.  People 
> have this view that blind people are people who rock, jam their 
> fingers or fist into their eye. They walk with a stiff-leggeed gait 
> and don't look at people who are talking to them.  In other words, the 
> crappy stereotypes people think of when you say,
> "blind person".
>
> Marti, you used to be a sighted person.  Think back on your sighted 
> days long before you ever met a blind person. What did your mind 
> conjure up? Now,
>
> me - I've always been visually impaired and I can't and never was able 
> to see people's faces and the expressions on them.  I had no clue 
> about "look blind" sinse I've spent a lifetime around blind people.
>
> My friend told me that when someone tells me that I don't "look blind" 
> I need to take it as a compliment.  The statement really says that you 
> look normal - like a SIGHTED person!  You and I do not have the 
> so-called "blind mannerisms" that so many sheltered congenitally blind 
> people display.  You learned how to be as a sighted child - what was 
> socially acceptable. As a child, I was taught by my parents how to be 
> in public and that people can see what I do.  So, you and I behave in 
> a normal socially acceptable manner.
>
> We look at people who speak to us.  We don't poke our eyes with our
> fingers
> or fists.  Our eyes may look pretty normal - well - mine wiggle with
> nystagmus.  We rock only to music or while seated in a rocking chair.
>
> I don't remember if you are totally blind or are partially sighted.  
> Being in a wheelchair, I can see how people think your guide is a 
> wheelchair service dog.  There aren't too many of you out there. I 
> know several visually impaired wheelchair users but they see too much 
> to use a guide dog and they don't have a service dog, either.
>
> I know it's annoying when people don't know.  People think you are 
> either fully sighted - "Oh, you must be faking it!" or you are totally 
> blind. People still don't seem to grasp the idea of all kinds of 
> partial vision in between. I tell them that I have enough vision to be 
> dangerous.  We then have a laugh.
>
> Hope that helps!  Thank God we are normal people who can give the 
> public a good impression of who blind people are.
>
> Take care and Happy Holidays!
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] service vs therapy dogs and welcome
>
>
>> Hi every one,   I have had similar experiences with Therapy dog owners.
>> They seem to think they know it all. They seem to think,because I am 
>> in a wheelchair that my dog is not a guide.They can't see beyond the 
>> chair. My dog must be a  "wheelchair dog",because I use a wheelchair. 
>> I am told that
>
>> I
>> don't look blind. Can some one tell me what a blind person looks 
>> like? Do they all look the same? I get so aggravated at these people, 
>> that I don't even try to explain. I just roll away and ignore them. 
>> There are too
> many
>> other battles that are more important to take care of.           Welcome
>> Ted.  All my guides have been Siberian Huskies except for my current 
>> trainee,Wanagi. She is a Husky/Shepherd cross, and I adopted her from 
>> the pound. I have trained my dogs with the aid of a private trainer. 
>> I am sure that whatever school you choose, you will get a wonderful, 
>> and faithful
>> partner.     Have a great day, Mardi and Nala, retired, Wanagi, gdit, and
>> Tokala,gdit.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org 
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lindagwizdak%40
> people
> pc.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:44:11 -0500
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.5256.1227928833.2981.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Marsha,

Yes, it does make sense. I know it can be hard to get past the guilt of
retirement. My first dog retired and 9.5, and I had to deal with guilt from
that, since, after all, some people's dogs work untill they're 11 oar so.

Anyway...it's hard to move past that, but you can trust your own judgment.
If you're just not sure, try to imagine what an instructor would say. And
even if you happen to make a mistake at any point, it's not the place of
your friends to tell you how to 
handle the dog. Putting a dog on tiedown or in a crate is not abuse.

Best,

Angie



On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:13:40 -0500, Marsha wrote:

>Oh I know that SE would have told them that if the dog is working well, 
>if they are being fed and parked, and seem to be happy then whatever. 
>It just seems I have run into this much more here than any where else. 
>I should make up SE cards and hand them to a person when they try to do 
>this to me.

>But I guess as a good handler, I say good because I think I am very 
>good with my puppy, that when ever people say something to me it makes 
>me feel guilty. It makes me question what I am doing, how I am doing 
>it, and so on. I just do not want to be wrong, I am on my second guide, 
>and the first was retired, and yes there is a lot of guilt there. I 
>just want to be doing the best. So for me it is a fine line between 
>being right knowing what I am doing right is really right for me and 
>then defending what is right. I do not know if that makes any sense? 
>Marsha







------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:56:33 -0500
From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:
	<20081128235417.QMHJ11341.hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com at BrailleNote>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello Marion.  Could you please email me off-list concerning the 
topic of hypnotherapy, please? Can it be done without 
professional assistance if done told what to do?
Hope and Beignet

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net
>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:05:35 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

>Jeff,
>    I enjoy traveling; however, because of the need to find
someone to care
>for our dogs, we don't do as many overnight trips as we would
like.  Prior to
>next year's convention, Merry and I are going to take a week for
our
>honeymoon and stay on mackinaw Island.
>    BTW, I wanted to ask what type of psychology you practice.  I
am a
>behavioral counselor, specializing in hypnotherapy for health and
personal
>enhancement.  Issues like smoking cessation weight
management,stress
>management, and athletic enhancement.

>Fraternally,
>Marion


>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
><nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:11 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member


>> Thanks Marion,
>> I hadn't figured in the complications of travelling.  Do you
take Louisa
>> with you on trips?  I travel very little.  My wife has some
serious
>> chronic
>> medical problems, and I hate to leave her alone.
>> Better get ready for work,
>> Jeff

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:37 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

>> Jeffrey,
>>    No, I haven't started the application process yet.  As I
said, I'm not
>> going to get another guide until Louiza is gone.  Merry thinks
Louiza would
>> handle it well, but having dogs that need to be left home while
traveling
>> makes it difficult to do so.  So, for now, I will work Louiza
when she
>> wants
>> to and use my cane when she doesn't.
>>    Our convention will be held in Detroit, Michigan July 4 - 9.
The annual
>> meetings of the National Association of Guide Dog Users are held
at the
>> convention, generally on the first and third seminar days
(Saturday &
>> Monday this year).  The NFB also has a Human Services Division
for those in
>> the fields of Counseling that you may be interested in.  the
Convention is
>> a
>> life-changing experience if you have never been to one and what
my wife
>> calls "a shot of NFB-12"! It is very motivating and energizing!
I hope you
>> are able to make it!

>> Fraternally,
>> Marion Gwizdala


>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member


>>> Marion,
>>> You certainly have quite a pack of dogs.  I was eight months
between my
>>> second and third dogs and took some nasty falls.  Have you
started the
>>> application process for your next dog?  Not much difference
between three
>>> and four.  I had my retired first and active second at the same
time.
>>> They
>>> seem to be very sensitive to the other's ability to run and play
and are
>>> quite respectful of it.  When is the convention?

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:17 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

>>> Jeffrey,
>>>    My pup, Louiza, is a 12-year-old Collie/Shepherd cross from 
>>> Southeastern

>>> Guide Dogs in Palmetto, florida.  My wife also has a SEGDI guide
dog, a
>>> Vizsala named Sydney.  We also have a pet dog who rules the pack
- a Corgi
>>> mix named Joy.Sydney is retired and Louiza is semi-retired.  I
work her at
>>> least once a week, using my cane most of the time.  I probably
won't get
>>> another guide dog until Louiza is gone.  She is very healthy,
except a bit
>>> of

>>> arthritis in her spine, causing a little weakness in her hind
quarters.
>>> This

>>> makes it challenging for her to get up stairs and onto some
buses.
>>>    Do you think you might be able to make our next national
Convention in
>>> detroit? It would be great to meet you and for you to get
acquainted with
>>> other people you chat with on this list!

>>> Fraternally,
>>> Marion Gwizdala



>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:25 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member


>>>> Thanks Marion.  I hope that you have a great holiday.  What is
your
>>>> dog's
>>>> name, and where did you get him/her?

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:05 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

>>>> Jeffrey,
>>>>    Welcome to the NAGDU list.  I am sure you will find a great
deal of
>>>> information and support here.

>>>> Fraternally,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala



>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:27 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member


>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I just joined this week and was glad to read the digest.  My
name is
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> Schwartz.  I am a psychologist and have lived in New Haven by
way of
>>>>> Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Scranton.  I didn't know that I had a 
>>>>> significant visual problem until I was about 20.  At that time I 
>>>>> was already legally
>>>>> blind due to the insidious deterioration of my visual field from
>>>>> Retinitis
>>>>> Pigmentosa.  At age 61, I'm left with little more than light
>>>>> perception.
>>>>> I
>>>>> recently received my third guide dog, Faith, from Fidelco.  They 
are a
>>>>> superb organization.  The founders, Charles and Roberta Kaman
have been
>>>>> raising German Shepherd dogs for about 40 years.  Originally
they
>>>>> raised
>>>>> them as show dogs.  The story which I heard is that they started
the
>>>>> school
>>>>> after one of the dogs prevented their young son from running
into
>>>>> traffic.
>>>>> John Byfield was their first trainer.  He was my trainer for my
second
>>>>> dog,
>>>>> Webster.  John is from the "old school".  My wife and I called
him the
>>>>> dog
>>>>> Nazi.  He was really tough, as were all of the early trainers.
The new
>>>>> breed, if you'll pardon the pun, rely more on positive
reinforcement.
>>>>> I
>>>>> really liked the in community orientation, as you get four hours
a day
>>>>> of
>>>>> the trainer's undivided attention.  I don't think that there are
any
>>>>> bad
>>>>> or
>>>>> even mediocre schools.  German Shepherds are fantastic dogs.  If
I were
>>>>> in
>>>>> the position to select a pet, it would be a GSD.  The only
problem that
>>>>> I
>>>>> have encountered is that they tend to be dog aggressive.
Fidelco gets
>>>>> its
>>>>> breeding stock from Germany.  They are only a generation or two
away
>>>>> from
>>>>> being working shepherds.  Every pure bred dog was selectively
shaped to
>>>>> perform a certain task, even lap dogs.  Centuries ago, before
central
>>>>> heating and indoor plumbing people seldom bathed.  As a
consequence,
>>>>> they
>>>>> had fleas.  They would sit with a dog in their lap because,
given a
>>>>> choice,
>>>>> fleas prefer dogs.  Back to German Shepherds and dog aggression.
They
>>>>> were
>>>>> bred to keep the flock together and protect it from predators.
Today's
>>>>> German Shepherds are "hard wired" to see other dogs as potential 
>>>>> predators.


>>>>> Like all of you, I have had my share of blind stereotypes tossed
my
>>>>> way.
>>>>> When I was younger, slim and walked with a white cane, I went
into a
>>>>> Wal-Mart's and the greeter asked me if I wanted a wheelchair.
I've
>>>>> been
>>>>> in
>>>>> restaurants with my wife and had the service person ask her "and
what
>>>>> will
>>>>> he have"   I guess we have all heard, "you don't look blind".
>>>>> Anyway, sorry to have gone on at such length.  I'm glad to have
joined
>>>>> this
>>>>> group and I'm sure that I will enjoy participating.  I don't
usually
>>>>> talk
>>>>> so
>>>>> much.  Just ask my spouse.

>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:42 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
>>>>> Subject: New member

>>>>> Hi Mardi,
>>>>> I liked the part about "You don't look blind...".  That one had
me
>>>>> stumped
>>>>> for years and years.  I didn't know what people meant by the
remark.  I
>>>>> thoought it was people denying that I was blind.  Well, a
sighted friend
>>>>> finally explained the basis of the remark to me.  He said that
people
>>>>> look
>>>>> at a blind person and see the blindness.  People have this view
that
>>>>> blind
>>>>> people are people who rock, jam their fingers or fist into their
eye.
>>>>> They
>>>>> walk with a stiff-leggeed gait and don't look at people who are
talking
>>>>> to
>>>>> them.  In other words, the crappy stereotypes people think of
when you
>>>>> say,
>>>>> "blind person".

>>>>> Marti, you used to be a sighted person.  Think back on your
sighted
>>>>> days
>>>>> long before you ever met a blind person.  What did your mind
conjure up?
>>>>> Now,

>>>>> me - I've always been visually impaired and I can't and never
was able
>>>>> to
>>>>> see people's faces and the expressions on them.  I had no clue
about
>>>>> "look
>>>>> blind" sinse I've spent a lifetime around blind people.

>>>>> My friend told me that when someone tells me that I don't "look
blind"
>>>>> I
>>>>> need to take it as a compliment.  The statement really says that
you
>>>>> look
>>>>> normal - like a SIGHTED person!  You and I do not have the
so-called
>>>>> "blind
>>>>> mannerisms" that so many sheltered congenitally blind people
display.
>>>>> You
>>>>> learned how to be as a sighted child - what was socially
acceptable.  As
>>>>> a
>>>>> child, I was taught by my parents how to be in public and that
people
>>>>> can
>>>>> see what I do.  So, you and I behave in a normal socially
acceptable
>>>>> manner.

>>>>> We look at people who speak to us.  We don't poke our eyes with
our
>>>>> fingers
>>>>> or fists.  Our eyes may look pretty normal - well - mine wiggle
with
>>>>> nystagmus.  We rock only to music or while seated in a rocking
chair.

>>>>> I don't remember if you are totally blind or are partially 
sighted.
>>>>> Being
>>>>> in a wheelchair, I can see how people think your guide is a 
wheelchair
>>>>> service dog.  There aren't too many of you out there.  I know 
several
>>>>> visually impaired wheelchair users but they see too much to use 
a guide
>>>>> dog
>>>>> and they don't have a service dog, either.

>>>>> I know it's annoying when people don't know.  People think you 
are
>>>>> either
>>>>> fully sighted - "Oh, you must be faking it!" or you are totally 
blind.
>>>>> People still don't seem to grasp the idea of all kinds of 
partial
>>>>> vision
>>>>> in
>>>>> between.  I tell them that I have enough vision to be dangerous.  
We
>>>>> then
>>>>> have a laugh.

>>>>> Hope that helps!  Thank God we are normal people who can give 
the
>>>>> public
>>>>> a
>>>>> good impression of who blind people are.

>>>>> Take care and Happy Holidays!

>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com
>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:52 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] service vs therapy dogs and welcome


>>>>>> Hi every one,   I have had similar experiences with Therapy dog
>>>>>> owners.
>>>>>> They seem to think they know it all.  They seem to think,because 
I am
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> wheelchair that my dog is not a guide.They can't see beyond the 
chair.
>>>>>> My
>>>>>> dog must be a  "wheelchair dog",because I use a wheelchair.  I 
am told
>>>>>> that

>>>>>> I
>>>>>> don't look blind.  Can some one tell me what a blind person 
looks like?
>>>>>> Do
>>>>>> they all look the same? I get so aggravated at these people, 
that I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> even try to explain.  I just roll away and ignore them.  There 
are too
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> other battles that are more important to take care of.
>>>>>> Welcome
>>>>>> Ted.  All my guides have been Siberian Huskies except for my 
current
>>>>>> trainee,Wanagi.  She is a Husky/Shepherd cross, and I adopted 
her from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> pound.  I have trained my dogs with the aid of a private 
trainer.  I am
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>> that whatever school you choose, you will get a wonderful, and
>>>>>> faithful
>>>>>> partner.     Have a great day, Mardi and Nala, retired, Wanagi, 
gdit,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Tokala,gdit.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>>>>> nagdu:




>> 
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ak%40people
>>>>> pc.com



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------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:07:28 -0600
From: "Wayne Merritt" <wcmerritt at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <bQ6Jc3jsFkZl.WMS8V4q1 at smtp.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I think i would have done the same. I was told by the Seeying Eye to not
give the dog a reason to misbehave. To set aside a spot for them so they're
out of the way. Sounds like you did this. If someone has a problem with this
then that's their problem. If they insisted though then i might have asked
them to either move to another place, or if they pushed it far enough then
perhaps even leave the gathering. I might even point out to them that having
dogs run loose in a situation like that isn't the best idea, both for the
dog and the people.

Wayne
--Composed using my Nokia N82 phone.

-original message-
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
From: "solsticesinger" <solsticesinger at gmail.com>
Date: 11/28/2008 5:25 PM

Marsha,

You know your dog best. You also know what behaviors you are and are not 
willing to accept from her. So, if you find it useful to keep her on tie 
down, I would say that is the right thing to do.

Personally, I try not to tie Caroline down excessively, just because she 
doesn't need it. She behaves herself, and doesn't make too much of a 
nuisance of herself. However, I have found, especially when another guide 
dog enters my home, some time on leash or tie down works well.

Shannon and Caroline
Who can heal, but one who has healed herself?
Who can know, but one who has asked and sought?
Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way?
--ancient French proverb

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come up quite a
bit lately. I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, all of which
do not have guides, but who are blind. Emma being the little turkey she is,
as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things and just
general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room but on tie
down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way. When here with
just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being around off tie
down. But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various places. Emma
is always fed and taken to park at the right times. I do not beat her, or
nor neglect her. But because these blind people know others who have guides,
and those other people have guides whom are free when people are around, and
there guides can do what they please. I was threaten to be reported to my
school. Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my saying, that
because they do not have guides then therefore they have no opinion because
until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know its do and
don'ts then they can not say any thing. I do not feel I am doint any thing
wrong. She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very happy. But why is
that people who are blind, who think they know others who have guides, can
tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to do in
different situations. This really really bugs me to no end. I always take
the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a guide, but
there are just some of those blind people that think they know it all about
every thing when it comes to blindness. What do you all do in these
situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me up over my
guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did not because
I did not want to ruin the fun. Never mind that, please share with me what
you would have done?
Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
Marsha and Emma



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database 3650 (20081128) __________

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http://www.eset.com



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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:11:54 -0500
From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>,	nagdu at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
	<20081129000938.EJRM18207.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com at BrailleNote>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi there.  Aww.  I'm suffe everything will work out as far as the 
foutonthing.  Shepherds are real smart and they pick things up 
quickly.  Smile.  I also have a shepherd and love the breed. 

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:04:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

>Emma is a Shepard, and never the mind that I have not even been 
in this
>apartment but less than two months, that we are still a very new 
team, not
>even a year yet.  But there are a lot of things I am working on 
her with now
>because of this situation in question.  At the end of the weekend 
with these
>particular people to whom were in my home, they were encouraging 
her to get
>on my futon, now when we go to someone else home she sees fit to 
jump up on
>the couch, as well I am having to always tell her down off my 
futon now.
>Thanks
>marsha


>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
On Behalf
>Of Hope Paulos
>Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:21 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users;
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

>Hi Marsha.  I probably would have done the same thing if I were
>in your situation.  If your pup has a tendancy to bug people and
>get into their food, keeping her out of the way is good.  What
>kind of dog is emma, which breed? I'd try to work with her on
>this issue, but you did the right thing.  I also had someone who
>was blind come up to me and tell me how to do things with my dog-
>that they'd seen many people with dogs and none did what I did.
>It doesn't matter.  What matters is that each dog is different
>and needs to be handled differently.  I'm the type of pouson,
>that if someone, blind or sighted, comes between my guide and
>me, they'll definitely be educated.  I won't hesitate to tell
>them (at first in a poliffe manner, then if they're insistant,
>not so polite) what I think.  Then, if they continue to persist
>on expressing their opinions and argue with me, I'd ask them to
>leave my home.  I don't need to be treated like that, especially
>if I'm opening my home to these people.
>Anyway, don't let it bother you too much, unount it happens again
>(the same person.  Then it's time to educate them.
>Take care.
>Hope and Beignet

>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:54:36 -0500
>>Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

>>Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come
>up quite a
>>bit lately.  I opened my home to a group of people last weekend,
>all of which
>>do not have guides, but who are blind.  Emma being the little
>turkey she is,
>>as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things
>and just
>>general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room
>but on tie
>>down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way.  When
>here with
>>just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being
>around off tie
>>down.  But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various
>places.  Emma
>>is always fed and taken to park at the right times.  I do not
>beat her, or
>>nor neglect her.  But because these blind people know others who
>have guides,
>>and those other people have guides whom are free when people are
>around, and
>>there guides can do what they please.  I was threaten to be
>reported to my
>>school.  Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my
>saying, that
>>because they do not have guides then therefore they have no
>opinion because
>>until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know
>its do and
>>don'ts then they can not say any thing.  I do not feel I am doint
>any thing
>>wrong.  She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very
>happy.  But why is
>>that people who are blind, who think they know others who have
>guides, can
>>tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to
>do in
>>different situations.  This really really bugs me to no end.  I
>always take
>>the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a
>guide, but
>>there are just some of those blind people that think they know it
>all about
>>every thing when it comes to blindness.  What do you all do in
>these
>>situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me
>up over my
>>guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did
>not because
>>I did not want to ruin the fun.  Never mind that, please share
>with me what
>>you would have done?
>>Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
>>Marsha and Emma



>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>virus signature
>>database 3650 (20081128) __________

>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>>http://www.eset.com



>>_______________________________________________
>>nagdu mailing list
>>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for nagdu:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulo
>s%40maine.edu

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>nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nagdu:
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ha.lindsey%
>40gmail.com


>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of 
virus signature
>database 3650 (20081128) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com



>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of 
virus signature
>database 3650 (20081128) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com



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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:35:14 -0700
From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] you don't look blind and Born and raised in
	Connecticut
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
	<9023d1d70811281635x75f8622bkea471cbf098faeb2 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Hi every one, Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving.Linda ,now that I think
about it,you are right. I never met a blind person until I was 19. I worked
as an x ray tech, and the man who ran the films through the developing
machine was blind.He was a cane user and his name was Ray. We became
friends. When I worked in another Hospital as an x ray tech. There was a
blind lady,her name was Helen, she also worked in the dark room.Also a cane
user,I would help her out to the bus stop. Not one of the other employes
wanted to help her because she wanted to hold on to their arm. I thought
this was very odd as I did not mind her holding on to my arm. It was just a
way to help her. I guess some people are just weird!I don't know,but maybe
they thought they could " catch " her blindness?   Both of these people were
pretty normal looking to me. Be fore I ever met a blind person, I don't
think I thought about blind people at all. I have some residual vision, but
it is not very helpful. I can see things if they are magnified and very
close,but every thing I see is doubled and blured and hazy. I have no
periferal vision. I am diagnosed with Cortical Vision Impairment, Macular
Degeneration,and Early Cateracts.I am light sensitive so when I am out side
I use dark glasses,and keep my eyes closed.At night,I see lights and not
much more than that.      Ted, I was born and raised in Stamford Ct.Left
there in 1983,to come to Tucson Az. I like the weather better here but
......................................... Have a great day, Mardi and
Nala,retired, Wanagi,gdit,and Tokala,gd at home, and part time pet.


------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:58:15 -0500
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
Subject: [nagdu] Other options for those annoying people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <E52B2F25C8C941F396E323344F760EFD at dragonslayer>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Marsha, 

Your other option here is just to never invite them over again. You don't
have to say why, just don't invite them over again. 

It's probably a good thing these folks, especially your major critic, don't
have dogs, given their inability to listen and understand your reasoning. 

As I say with some of my relatives, it's OK to say "I like you but not in my
house." 

 Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com




------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:33:03 -0600
From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c951c2$6cabe640$2348bc44 at CHRIS>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

What are SE cards? what do they say on them?
Chasity
Check out the tribute page I created for my guide dog Vanda at:
www.myspace.com/vandaandchasity
Listen to my radio show every Thursday from 4-7pm on the Q Online:
www.theqonline.net
Visit my MySpace page and add me at
www.myspace.com/chasityandvanda
Listen to my podcast at:
http://www.gcast.com/u/Chasityvanda/main.xml
Or by phone at: (559) 553-4627
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


> Hi Marsha,
>
> Yes, it does make sense. I know it can be hard to get past the guilt of 
> retirement. My first dog retired and 9.5, and I had to deal with guilt 
> from that, since, after all, some people's dogs work untill they're 11 oar

> so.
>
> Anyway...it's hard to move past that, but you can trust your own judgment.

> If you're just not sure, try to imagine what an instructor would say. And 
> even if you happen to make a mistake at any point, it's not the place of 
> your friends to tell you how to
> handle the dog. Putting a dog on tiedown or in a crate is not abuse.
>
> Best,
>
> Angie
>
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:13:40 -0500, Marsha wrote:
>
>>Oh I know that SE would have told them that if the dog is working well, if
>>they are being fed and parked, and seem to be happy then whatever. It just
>>seems I have run into this much more here than any where else. I should 
>>make
>>up SE cards and hand them to a person when they try to do this to me.
>
>>But I guess as a good handler, I say good because I think I am very good
>>with my puppy, that when ever people say something to me it makes me feel
>>guilty. It makes me question what I am doing, how I am doing it, and so 
>>on.
>>I just do not want to be wrong, I am on my second guide, and the first was
>>retired, and yes there is a lot of guilt there. I just want to be doing 
>>the
>>best. So for me it is a fine line between being right knowing what I am
>>doing right is really right for me and then defending what is right. I do
>>not know if that makes any sense?
>>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
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r.net 




------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:33:15 -0800
From: <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
	<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <00aa01c951c2$74d1c6a0$1f685142 at lindagwizdak>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Marsha, those people are idiots - don't invite them back!  They sounded 
totally disrespectful of you and you don't need this type of person for 
friends!

As for your dog, you do what you were trained to do.  I once had a shepherd 
who wouldn't relax unless she was on tie down.  Having the dog on tie down 
sounded logical to me so she'd stay put and out of the way with guests over.

Cheers,

Linda and Landon


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


> Emma is a Shepard, and never the mind that I have not even been in this
> apartment but less than two months, that we are still a very new team, not
> even a year yet. But there are a lot of things I am working on her with 
> now
> because of this situation in question. At the end of the weekend with 
> these
> particular people to whom were in my home, they were encouraging her to 
> get
> on my futon, now when we go to someone else home she sees fit to jump up 
> on
> the couch, as well I am having to always tell her down off my futon now.
> Thanks
> marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Hope Paulos
> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:21 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users;
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
>
> Hi Marsha.  I probably would have done the same thing if I were
> in your situation.  If your pup has a tendancy to bug people and
> get into their food, keeping her out of the way is good.  What
> kind of dog is emma, which breed? I'd try to work with her on
> this issue, but you did the right thing.  I also had someone who
> was blind come up to me and tell me how to do things with my dog-
> that they'd seen many people with dogs and none did what I did.
> It doesn't matter.  What matters is that each dog is different
> and needs to be handled differently.  I'm the type of pouson,
> that if someone, blind or sighted, comes between my guide and
> me, they'll definitely be educated.  I won't hesitate to tell
> them (at first in a poliffe manner, then if they're insistant,
> not so polite) what I think.  Then, if they continue to persist
> on expressing their opinions and argue with me, I'd ask them to
> leave my home.  I don't need to be treated like that, especially
> if I'm opening my home to these people.
> Anyway, don't let it bother you too much, unount it happens again
> (the same person.  Then it's time to educate them.
> Take care.
> Hope and Beignet
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:54:36 -0500
>>Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
>
>>Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come
> up quite a
>>bit lately.  I opened my home to a group of people last weekend,
> all of which
>>do not have guides, but who are blind.  Emma being the little
> turkey she is,
>>as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things
> and just
>>general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room
> but on tie
>>down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way.  When
> here with
>>just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being
> around off tie
>>down.  But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various
> places.  Emma
>>is always fed and taken to park at the right times.  I do not
> beat her, or
>>nor neglect her.  But because these blind people know others who
> have guides,
>>and those other people have guides whom are free when people are
> around, and
>>there guides can do what they please.  I was threaten to be
> reported to my
>>school.  Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my
> saying, that
>>because they do not have guides then therefore they have no
> opinion because
>>until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know
> its do and
>>don'ts then they can not say any thing.  I do not feel I am doint
> any thing
>>wrong.  She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very
> happy.  But why is
>>that people who are blind, who think they know others who have
> guides, can
>>tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to
> do in
>>different situations.  This really really bugs me to no end.  I
> always take
>>the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a
> guide, but
>>there are just some of those blind people that think they know it
> all about
>>every thing when it comes to blindness.  What do you all do in
> these
>>situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me
> up over my
>>guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did
> not because
>>I did not want to ruin the fun.  Never mind that, please share
> with me what
>>you would have done?
>>Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
>>Marsha and Emma
>
>
>
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> virus signature
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> for nagdu:
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> s%40maine.edu
>
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------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:42:53 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <8C76777CDEDA4DD0B7BC0851C3002D53 at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

And see I knew that other guide dog users would get it, and understand what
I am saying. Thank you all!
Marsha  



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Wayne Merritt
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:07 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

I think i would have done the same. I was told by the Seeying Eye to not
give the dog a reason to misbehave. To set aside a spot for them so they're
out of the way. Sounds like you did this. If someone has a problem with this
then that's their problem. If they insisted though then i might have asked
them to either move to another place, or if they pushed it far enough then
perhaps even leave the gathering. I might even point out to them that having
dogs run loose in a situation like that isn't the best idea, both for the
dog and the people.

Wayne
--Composed using my Nokia N82 phone.

-original message-
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
From: "solsticesinger" <solsticesinger at gmail.com>
Date: 11/28/2008 5:25 PM

Marsha,

You know your dog best. You also know what behaviors you are and are not 
willing to accept from her. So, if you find it useful to keep her on tie 
down, I would say that is the right thing to do.

Personally, I try not to tie Caroline down excessively, just because she 
doesn't need it. She behaves herself, and doesn't make too much of a 
nuisance of herself. However, I have found, especially when another guide 
dog enters my home, some time on leash or tie down works well.

Shannon and Caroline
Who can heal, but one who has healed herself?
Who can know, but one who has asked and sought?
Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way?
--ancient French proverb

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come up quite a
bit lately. I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, all of which
do not have guides, but who are blind. Emma being the little turkey she is,
as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things and just
general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room but on tie
down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way. When here with
just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being around off tie
down. But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various places. Emma
is always fed and taken to park at the right times. I do not beat her, or
nor neglect her. But because these blind people know others who have guides,
and those other people have guides whom are free when people are around, and
there guides can do what they please. I was threaten to be reported to my
school. Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my saying, that
because they do not have guides then therefore they have no opinion because
until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know its do and
don'ts then they can not say any thing. I do not feel I am doint any thing
wrong. She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very happy. But why is
that people who are blind, who think they know others who have guides, can
tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to do in
different situations. This really really bugs me to no end. I always take
the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a guide, but
there are just some of those blind people that think they know it all about
every thing when it comes to blindness. What do you all do in these
situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me up over my
guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did not because
I did not want to ruin the fun. Never mind that, please share with me what
you would have done?
Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
Marsha and Emma



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database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



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database 3650 (20081128) __________

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------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:45:46 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Other options for those annoying people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <002A07904DCA41558CB32703FA9FCDE6 at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Oh most definetly I will never be inviting those particular people over. I
tried very hard to explain things but in those type of situations I always
feel pressured, and that is just not cool for me in my own home. Thank you
for your imput!
Marsha


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 7:58 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] Other options for those annoying people

Marsha, 

Your other option here is just to never invite them over again. You don't
have to say why, just don't invite them over again. 

It's probably a good thing these folks, especially your major critic, don't
have dogs, given their inability to listen and understand your reasoning. 

As I say with some of my relatives, it's OK to say "I like you but not in my
house." 

 Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com


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database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:51:26 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <F6B68E3478B04723B9DEE089D232B6EC at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Typically any other day her being tied down would only be at certain parts
of the day like if I were to go take the trash to the shoot, or if someone
came to the door and I need to take care of something, or while I am
sleeping.  Her being tied down is never excessive. We are talking minutes at
a time for the first two situations, and as far as the sleeping thing, I
can't trust her not to get up and roam the apartment yet. But again like I
said never ever excessive. 
Marsha  



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of solsticesinger
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:46 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

Marsha,

You know your dog best. You also know what behaviors you are and are not 
willing to accept from her. So, if you find it useful to keep her on tie 
down, I would say that is the right thing to do.

Personally, I try not to tie Caroline down excessively, just because she 
doesn't need it. She behaves herself, and doesn't make too much of a 
nuisance of herself. However, I have found, especially when another guide 
dog enters my home, some time on leash or tie down works well.

Shannon and Caroline
Who can heal, but one who has healed herself?
Who can know, but one who has asked and sought?
Who can lead, but one who has traveled the way?
--ancient French proverb

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:54 PM
Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come up quite a
bit lately. I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, all of which
do not have guides, but who are blind. Emma being the little turkey she is,
as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things and just
general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room but on tie
down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way. When here with
just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being around off tie
down. But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various places. Emma
is always fed and taken to park at the right times. I do not beat her, or
nor neglect her. But because these blind people know others who have guides,
and those other people have guides whom are free when people are around, and
there guides can do what they please. I was threaten to be reported to my
school. Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my saying, that
because they do not have guides then therefore they have no opinion because
until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know its do and
don'ts then they can not say any thing. I do not feel I am doint any thing
wrong. She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very happy. But why is
that people who are blind, who think they know others who have guides, can
tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to do in
different situations. This really really bugs me to no end. I always take
the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a guide, but
there are just some of those blind people that think they know it all about
every thing when it comes to blindness. What do you all do in these
situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me up over my
guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did not because
I did not want to ruin the fun. Never mind that, please share with me what
you would have done?
Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
Marsha and Emma



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database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



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database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3650 (20081128) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 




------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:21:32 -0500
From: Bunny Davidson <bunnydavidson at live.com>
Subject: [nagdu] welcome , funny story- cope with the dopes-
To: service dog list <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <COL104-W15C0A56A714E88DBF0B59C1070 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


hello jeffry,
welcome & nice to hear from you!
I am on here fairly recently myself, i listen(read) more than anything.
I think it is so healing to hear the experiences and frustrations of all the
members here.
i dont feel like im all alone with all my anxiety and frustration dealing
with the "uneducated, thoughtless and un-empethetic"...I especially liked
when you said some wallmart welcomer asked if you wanted a wheelchair! I
giggled reading that, I havent had that happen, but i pictured it and felt
it as i read it.  
 
I am a sighted person with other disabilities who uses a service dog, I have
had ladybug working for me about 7 years now.  She was 2 when i got her.
she is a boxer girl from a rescue.  without her i might not have ever left
the house.
what a blessing to have such a dependable friend.  
 
ill tell you all a funny story, years back when i had my accident , i had
many surgeries and one i came out of and was to wear this screwed in 'hallo'
to help set the bone grafts, metal plates and screws ...every time i had to
go out wether to eat or to see a dr tons of people would say "were you in an
accident?" i got so sick of this i started to smile finally and say, not
this was an "on purpose".  then turn away from them and leave if possable.
i am giggling now thinking of it.  then there were these other nit wits who
would stare at my cane and "hallo" and say pointing" what is that for", I
got sick of this too, so i started saying funny answers like "its my new
antena, now i get great tv and radio where ever i go" lets just say that it
was then i stoped feeling like crap from all the inapropriate invasions and
started laughing....
 
I am sure my dog and sense of humor are two of the best tools in dealing
with my whole world changing.
 
Newbie Q-on another note:
is there a place on here where we can post /view photos?
(like is there a homepage?, or are attatchments viewable?)
 
best to you all.
bunny
s vt usa
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_
112008

------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:35:33 -1000
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <20ACB736612D456DB6EDE1DE02A2DF21 at Charlene>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Hey, Marsha, believe me, people are always going to have their opinions and
some are sure that their opinion is better than yours even if they don't
have a clue about the situation.  Hang in there and work with your dog and
strive to be the best team you can be as that's the most important thing of
all!  You trained with your dog and youll know what's best for you and your
dog and if you have questions, someone from your school would be the best
resource, but sounds like you're on the right track so stick to your guns.
People in the list had some good suggestions like giving out the school's
phone number.

In the past, I've had some hard times with similar situations when I had a
dog who had really bad allergies people would chase me down the street
screaming at me about how I didn't take care of him but in fact I was doing
everything I could for him but it wasn't helping.  I'll never forget the
pain and anger that I felt during those days.  I also had a crazy dog that I
had to return after a couple of months and people were really mad at me for
returning her but she was growling at me and I didn't want to get bitten and
sure enough, I found out she did bite the trainer when he tried working with
her.  So, people don't know our situations sometimes and we just have to
hang in there and do our best and try not to let it get the better of us.
Places like this list are a good way to talk about it when you need to and
get support and encouragement, too.

All the best!

Charlene

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marsha
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 12:05 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

Emma is a Shepard, and never the mind that I have not even been in this
apartment but less than two months, that we are still a very new team, not
even a year yet. But there are a lot of things I am working on her with now
because of this situation in question. At the end of the weekend with these
particular people to whom were in my home, they were encouraging her to get
on my futon, now when we go to someone else home she sees fit to jump up on
the couch, as well I am having to always tell her down off my futon now.
Thanks
marsha 


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Hope Paulos
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 3:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users;
nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

Hi Marsha.  I probably would have done the same thing if I were 
in your situation.  If your pup has a tendancy to bug people and 
get into their food, keeping her out of the way is good.  What 
kind of dog is emma, which breed? I'd try to work with her on 
this issue, but you did the right thing.  I also had someone who 
was blind come up to me and tell me how to do things with my dog- 
that they'd seen many people with dogs and none did what I did.  
It doesn't matter.  What matters is that each dog is different 
and needs to be handled differently.  I'm the type of pouson, 
that if someone, blind or sighted, comes between my guide and  
me, they'll definitely be educated.  I won't hesitate to tell 
them (at first in a poliffe manner, then if they're insistant, 
not so polite) what I think.  Then, if they continue to persist 
on expressing their opinions and argue with me, I'd ask them to 
leave my home.  I don't need to be treated like that, especially 
if I'm opening my home to these people.
Anyway, don't let it bother you too much, unount it happens again 
(the same person.  Then it's time to educate them.
Take care.
Hope and Beignet

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:54:36 -0500
>Subject: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

>Wanted some thoughts and opinions on this matter, as it has come 
up quite a
>bit lately.  I opened my home to a group of people last weekend, 
all of which
>do not have guides, but who are blind.  Emma being the little 
turkey she is,
>as she will get into people's drinks and food, into other things 
and just
>general bug people, but she  spent time with us in the same room 
but on tie
>down so that she would rest and kinda stay out of the way.  When 
here with
>just me and her she has gained the privilages of just being 
around off tie
>down.  But I have several tie downs in my apartment in various 
places.  Emma
>is always fed and taken to park at the right times.  I do not 
beat her, or
>nor neglect her.  But because these blind people know others who 
have guides,
>and those other people have guides whom are free when people are 
around, and
>there guides can do what they please.  I was threaten to be 
reported to my
>school.  Doubtful that I will be reported, but it is always my 
saying, that
>because they do not have guides then therefore they have no 
opinion because
>until you have a dog, train with it, know its personality, know 
its do and
>don'ts then they can not say any thing.  I do not feel I am doint 
any thing
>wrong.  She is a wonderful puppy, works well and seems very 
happy.  But why is
>that people who are blind, who think they know others who have 
guides, can
>tell another one what to do, how to treat there guide or what to 
do in
>different situations.  This really really bugs me to no end.  I 
always take
>the road of maybe educating them on what it is like to have a 
guide, but
>there are just some of those blind people that think they know it 
all about
>every thing when it comes to blindness.  What do you all do in 
these
>situations? I even almost asked the one person who was beating me 
up over my
>guide and things I do wrong to leave my home, but in the end did 
not because
>I did not want to ruin the fun.  Never mind that, please share 
with me what
>you would have done?
>Thanks in advance for the thoughts,
>Marsha and Emma



>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of 
virus signature
>database 3650 (20081128) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com



>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
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------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:53:12 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <5537B9E9871B40C8AB81EB6B089749D9 at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

SE cards like with their contact info and someone who they could talk to in
this matter, nothing more.
Marsha 



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chasity Jackson
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

What are SE cards? what do they say on them?
Chasity
Check out the tribute page I created for my guide dog Vanda at:
www.myspace.com/vandaandchasity
Listen to my radio show every Thursday from 4-7pm on the Q Online:
www.theqonline.net
Visit my MySpace page and add me at
www.myspace.com/chasityandvanda
Listen to my podcast at:
http://www.gcast.com/u/Chasityvanda/main.xml
Or by phone at: (559) 553-4627
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people


> Hi Marsha,
>
> Yes, it does make sense. I know it can be hard to get past the guilt of 
> retirement. My first dog retired and 9.5, and I had to deal with guilt 
> from that, since, after all, some people's dogs work untill they're 11 oar

> so.
>
> Anyway...it's hard to move past that, but you can trust your own judgment.

> If you're just not sure, try to imagine what an instructor would say. And 
> even if you happen to make a mistake at any point, it's not the place of 
> your friends to tell you how to
> handle the dog. Putting a dog on tiedown or in a crate is not abuse.
>
> Best,
>
> Angie
>
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:13:40 -0500, Marsha wrote:
>
>>Oh I know that SE would have told them that if the dog is working well, if
>>they are being fed and parked, and seem to be happy then whatever. It just
>>seems I have run into this much more here than any where else. I should 
>>make
>>up SE cards and hand them to a person when they try to do this to me.
>
>>But I guess as a good handler, I say good because I think I am very good
>>with my puppy, that when ever people say something to me it makes me feel
>>guilty. It makes me question what I am doing, how I am doing it, and so 
>>on.
>>I just do not want to be wrong, I am on my second guide, and the first was
>>retired, and yes there is a lot of guilt there. I just want to be doing 
>>the
>>best. So for me it is a fine line between being right knowing what I am
>>doing right is really right for me and then defending what is right. I do
>>not know if that makes any sense?
>>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/chasityvanda%40charte
r.net 


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------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:00:12 -0500
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <2B4C1EAB81C7435B8604A27F6CA00580 at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

And those people that do not have dogs, those people who have never trained
with a guide, those that have no clue, think it is abuse to put them on tie
down and or the crate. I tell people that these dogs, have grown up this way
there entire life, this is all they know, so it is not abuse to them either,
but that most people just make it much more of a big deal than necessary. I
have no issues educating, but when people become weird about it, there is
not enough education you can give a person as they will never listen. 
Marsha



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] opinions of other blind people

Hi Marsha,

Yes, it does make sense. I know it can be hard to get past the guilt of
retirement. My first dog retired and 9.5, and I had to deal with guilt from
that, since, after all, some people's dogs work untill they're 11 oar so.

Anyway...it's hard to move past that, but you can trust your own judgment.
If you're just not sure, try to imagine what an instructor would say. And
even if you happen to make a mistake at any point, it's not the place of
your friends to tell you how to 
handle the dog. Putting a dog on tiedown or in a crate is not abuse.

Best,

Angie



On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:13:40 -0500, Marsha wrote:

>Oh I know that SE would have told them that if the dog is working well, if
>they are being fed and parked, and seem to be happy then whatever. It just
>seems I have run into this much more here than any where else. I should
make
>up SE cards and hand them to a person when they try to do this to me. 

>But I guess as a good handler, I say good because I think I am very good
>with my puppy, that when ever people say something to me it makes me feel
>guilty. It makes me question what I am doing, how I am doing it, and so on.
>I just do not want to be wrong, I am on my second guide, and the first was
>retired, and yes there is a lot of guilt there. I just want to be doing the
>best. So for me it is a fine line between being right knowing what I am
>doing right is really right for me and then defending what is right. I do
>not know if that makes any sense? 
>Marsha 





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------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:18:28 -0500
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Traveling in New York
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <000601c951d1$33aa66f0$6601a8c0 at D1ZCT2B1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Ted and Michael,
I'm glad that you guys enjoy NYC.  During the 35 years that we have live an
hour and a half away I've only been down there a few times.  Guess that I'm
just a small town "boy".  New Haven is just about the right size, but most
folks here wouldn't go down town without a loaded gun.  A friend in San
Francisco was thinking of sending his son to Yale, but a number of folks
told him that New Haven is too dangerous.  When we first moved here, it felt
quite safe.  Now I'm uncomfortable walking the streets in my middle class
oasis.  Yale is far and away the largest employer and property owner, but
they don't pay a cent in property taxes.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:14 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Traveling in New York

Michael,

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who seems to spend a significant
amount of money on buying canes.  I have a whole drawer-full of broken ones
that I keep thinking to go through and make one or two whole ones.  

Most people I ask for directions do OK, but I have certainly been sent the
wrong way on occasion.  

Funny thing is, I often get asked for directions myself.  I think they must
figure that a blind guy must really know the territory.  A few weeks ago I
was standing on a corner getting ready to cross 18th Street and a woman
asked me where 18th Street was.  I paused for a second and said "Uh, it's
right here".  "Oh, no", she replies, "I meant where is Broadway?"  I pointed
her in the right direction and went on my way.  

Sometimes I think I should be a tour guide.

All the best,

Ted 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:14 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] Traveling in New York

Ted and Jeff,

I lived in New Jersey and worked in the World Trade Center and around NYC
for six years.  I very much enjoyed zipping around the Center and the City
with my fourth and fifth guide dogs Linnie and Roselle.  Linnie became ill
in May, 1999 and it was six months before I met Roselle.

Personally, I found I could travel with either a guide dog or a cane.  I did
find that people did not watch for canes well.  I am fond of saying during
my speeches today that I spent more on buying new canes during 1999 than I
spent on dog food.

I regarded traveling in NYC as an adventure.  It was fun.  When necessary I
was able to find people who could give directions -- another adventure in of
itself.  I was amazed how many people couldn't even read signs to point out
a particular location.  However, I got by with no complaints.

I find the City to be relatively easy to traverse.  The numbers of people
and the amount of traffic is a help in getting around.

Go for it! 


Michael Hingson,
 NSA   
President,
The Michael Hingson Group
84 Bahama Reef
Novato, CA 94949
Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
Fax number (415) 883-6220
Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
Email
info at michaelhingson.com
 <
mailto:
info at michaelhingson.com>
For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and his
consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind persons
please visit < http://www.michaelhingson.com> For information on Guide Dogs
for the Blind please visit < http://www.guidedogs.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:50 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Jeff,

I wouldn't call Manhattan a nightmare, more like a frustration.  I love New
York City and its vibrant streams of humanity.  I like to move fast, which
sometimes leads to running into people or getting my cane stepped on (I
break 2 or 3 canes a year this way).  I've heard from some guide dog users
about zipping through crowds and around obstacles and that sounds good to
me. But I also have realistic expectations and I know it will take a lot of
hard work with a guide and even then things won't be perfect.  I love a
challenge and I think I'm ready to take this one on.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:08 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Ted,
This must be real culture shock after living on the West Coast.  People are
so much more relaxed out there.  The area between Boston and NYC is Type A
alley.  Your variety of RP is the rarest, and accounts for only about 5% of
all cases of RP.    Manhattan must be a nightmare for you.  Years ago,
before I even had a cane, I was walking in the Village and almost fell into
one of those openings that restaurants and blubs have in the front leading
down to their basements.  You'll really have to work with your dog to help
you avoid those overhanging branches.  One of my trainers told me that it's
the hardest thing to teach them and the first thing that they forget.  It
makes sense when you consider that their eyes are about 30 inches above
ground level.  If you don't mind me asking, what kind of work do you do in
the city?
Hope you had a nice day,
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:22 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Jeff,

I'm originally from Washington State and lived most of my life on the west
coast.  We moved out here in 1990 for my job.  We like it here, but our
families are mostly out West still and we sometimes think about going back.

I know about the wait with Fidelco.  This is not urgent for me, so it is not
a big problem to wait.  I've also applied to Guide Dogs for the Blind, just
in case.  GDB has a much shorter wait and from what I have learned, they
have a good program.  

I have what I believe is referred to as an X-linked version of RP.  The
males on my mother's side of the family get it but the females pass it on.
I have several uncles with the condition and one brother (2 brothers do not
have RP). 

I still have some vision and I do alright with the cane, especially during
the day.  At night I can usually only see light sources, which makes
navigation much slower.  I work in Manhattan and finding my way along
crowded New York sidewalks after dark is not much fun.  I think a dog will
be a great help in those situations and also keep me safer on subway
platforms and street crossings.  I'm also tired of hitting my head on
overhead branches here in Stamford and occasionally smacking into things
like street signs.  I'm sure that no guide dog will be perfect, but it's
bound to be an improvement.  

Happy Thanksgiving to you also.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:19 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi Ted,
Are you a native or did you move to Ct?  If you go up to Vermont or New
Hampshire, they refer to us as flat landers and don't consider Ct. to be
part of Newe England.  You are lucky, if one can use that word, to get to
your age and still be able to get around with a cane.  Perhaps you have the
dominant genetic variety.  Did one of your parents have RP?  Not to
discourage, but it can be a long wait with Fidelco.  They are the only guide
dog school in New England and they also service New York, New Jersey and any
place that one of their graduates has moved and now needs a successor dog.
I have a friend in Chicago.  She got her first dog from Seeing Eye, the
original school, in Morristown, New Jersey.  Her wait was far less than you
can expect from Fidelco, and she was quite pleased with the entire
experience.  It's something to consider.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:09 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi Jeff,

I'm practically a neighbor of yours - I'm just down the road in Stamford.  I
also have RP.  I'm 57 and have been using a cane full time for the last
decade or so and I'm just now working on getting my first guide dog.  I've
applied to Fidelco and I'm hoping they will accept me without too much of a
wait.  Welcome to the list.

Ted 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:28 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi,
I just joined this week and was glad to read the digest.  My name is Jeff
Schwartz.  I am a psychologist and have lived in New Haven by way of
Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Scranton.  I didn't know that I had a significant
visual problem until I was about 20.  At that time I was already legally
blind due to the insidious deterioration of my visual field from Retinitis
Pigmentosa.  At age 61, I'm left with little more than light perception.  I
recently received my third guide dog, Faith, from Fidelco.  They are a
superb organization.  The founders, Charles and Roberta Kaman have been
raising German Shepherd dogs for about 40 years.  Originally they raised
them as show dogs.  The story which I heard is that they started the school
after one of the dogs prevented their young son from running into traffic.
John Byfield was their first trainer.  He was my trainer for my second dog,
Webster.  John is from the "old school".  My wife and I called him the dog
Nazi.  He was really tough, as were all of the early trainers.  The new
breed, if you'll pardon the pun, rely more on positive reinforcement.  I
really liked the in community orientation, as you get four hours a day of
the trainer's undivided attention.  I don't think that there are any bad or
even mediocre schools.  German Shepherds are fantastic dogs.  If I were in
the position to select a pet, it would be a GSD.  The only problem that I
have encountered is that they tend to be dog aggressive.  Fidelco gets its
breeding stock from Germany.  They are only a generation or two away from
being working shepherds.  Every pure bred dog was selectively shaped to
perform a certain task, even lap dogs.  Centuries ago, before central
heating and indoor plumbing people seldom bathed.  As a consequence, they
had fleas.  They would sit with a dog in their lap because, given a choice,
fleas prefer dogs.  Back to German Shepherds and dog aggression.  They were
bred to keep the flock together and protect it from predators.  Today's
German Shepherds are "hard wired" to see other dogs as potential predators.


Like all of you, I have had my share of blind stereotypes tossed my way.
When I was younger, slim and walked with a white cane, I went into a
Wal-Mart's and the greeter asked me if I wanted a wheelchair.  I've been in
restaurants with my wife and had the service person ask her "and what will
he have"   I guess we have all heard, "you don't look blind". 
Anyway, sorry to have gone on at such length.  I'm glad to have joined this
group and I'm sure that I will enjoy participating.  I don't usually talk so
much.  Just ask my spouse.   

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:42 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: New member

Hi Mardi,
I liked the part about "You don't look blind...".  That one had me stumped
for years and years.  I didn't know what people meant by the remark.  I
thoought it was people denying that I was blind. Well, a sighted friend
finally explained the basis of the remark to me.  He said that people look
at a blind person and see the blindness.  People have this view that blind
people are people who rock, jam their fingers or fist into their eye.  They
walk with a stiff-leggeed gait and don't look at people who are talking to
them.  In other words, the crappy stereotypes people think of when you say,
"blind person".

Marti, you used to be a sighted person.  Think back on your sighted days
long before you ever met a blind person. What did your mind conjure up? Now,

me - I've always been visually impaired and I can't and never was able to
see people's faces and the expressions on them.  I had no clue about "look
blind" sinse I've spent a lifetime around blind people.

My friend told me that when someone tells me that I don't "look blind" I
need to take it as a compliment.  The statement really says that you look
normal - like a SIGHTED person!  You and I do not have the so-called "blind
mannerisms" that so many sheltered congenitally blind people display.  You
learned how to be as a sighted child - what was socially acceptable. As a
child, I was taught by my parents how to be in public and that people can
see what I do.  So, you and I behave in a normal socially acceptable manner.

We look at people who speak to us.  We don't poke our eyes with our fingers
or fists.  Our eyes may look pretty normal - well - mine wiggle with
nystagmus.  We rock only to music or while seated in a rocking chair.

I don't remember if you are totally blind or are partially sighted.  Being
in a wheelchair, I can see how people think your guide is a wheelchair
service dog.  There aren't too many of you out there. I know several
visually impaired wheelchair users but they see too much to use a guide dog
and they don't have a service dog, either.

I know it's annoying when people don't know.  People think you are either
fully sighted - "Oh, you must be faking it!" or you are totally blind. 
People still don't seem to grasp the idea of all kinds of partial vision in
between. I tell them that I have enough vision to be dangerous.  We then
have a laugh.

Hope that helps!  Thank God we are normal people who can give the public a
good impression of who blind people are.

Take care and Happy Holidays!

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] service vs therapy dogs and welcome


> Hi every one,   I have had similar experiences with Therapy dog owners.
> They seem to think they know it all. They seem to think,because I am 
> in a wheelchair that my dog is not a guide.They can't see beyond the 
> chair. My dog must be a  "wheelchair dog",because I use a wheelchair.
> I am told that

> I
> don't look blind. Can some one tell me what a blind person looks like?  
> Do they all look the same? I get so aggravated at these people, that I 
> don't even try to explain. I just roll away and ignore them. There are 
> too
many
> other battles that are more important to take care of.           Welcome
> Ted.  All my guides have been Siberian Huskies except for my current 
> trainee,Wanagi. She is a Husky/Shepherd cross, and I adopted her from 
> the pound. I have trained my dogs with the aid of a private trainer.
> I am sure that whatever school you choose, you will get a wonderful, 
> and faithful
> partner.     Have a great day, Mardi and Nala, retired, Wanagi, gdit, and
> Tokala,gdit.
> _______________________________________________
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> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
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pc.com
> 


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Message: 34
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:20:28 -0500
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
	Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <000701c951d1$6dcee4a0$6601a8c0 at D1ZCT2B1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

When I trained with my first dog, Cairo, the trainer had a dog in his string
that had come away back to Fidelco as the owner had passed away.  The dog
was relatively young and he was getting him ready for another blind person
He said that it might have been the largest Shepherd Fidelco had ever
placed.  Generally they give the really big ones to the State Police as they
have trouble getting under tables in restaurants and the like.  This dog had
worked in New York.  The trainer said that he was the perfect New York dog.
When he got to a corner and there was a crowd waiting for the light to
change, he would push his way to the very front.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:50 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Jeff,

I wouldn't call Manhattan a nightmare, more like a frustration.  I love New
York City and its vibrant streams of humanity.  I like to move fast, which
sometimes leads to running into people or getting my cane stepped on (I
break 2 or 3 canes a year this way).  I've heard from some guide dog users
about zipping through crowds and around obstacles and that sounds good to
me. But I also have realistic expectations and I know it will take a lot of
hard work with a guide and even then things won't be perfect.  I love a
challenge and I think I'm ready to take this one on.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:08 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Ted,
This must be real culture shock after living on the West Coast.  People are
so much more relaxed out there.  The area between Boston and NYC is Type A
alley.  Your variety of RP is the rarest, and accounts for only about 5% of
all cases of RP.    Manhattan must be a nightmare for you.  Years ago,
before I even had a cane, I was walking in the Village and almost fell into
one of those openings that restaurants and blubs have in the front leading
down to their basements.  You'll really have to work with your dog to help
you avoid those overhanging branches.  One of my trainers told me that it's
the hardest thing to teach them and the first thing that they forget.  It
makes sense when you consider that their eyes are about 30 inches above
ground level.  If you don't mind me asking, what kind of work do you do in
the city?
Hope you had a nice day,
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 12:22 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Jeff,

I'm originally from Washington State and lived most of my life on the west
coast.  We moved out here in 1990 for my job.  We like it here, but our
families are mostly out West still and we sometimes think about going back.

I know about the wait with Fidelco.  This is not urgent for me, so it is not
a big problem to wait.  I've also applied to Guide Dogs for the Blind, just
in case.  GDB has a much shorter wait and from what I have learned, they
have a good program.  

I have what I believe is referred to as an X-linked version of RP.  The
males on my mother's side of the family get it but the females pass it on.
I have several uncles with the condition and one brother (2 brothers do not
have RP). 

I still have some vision and I do alright with the cane, especially during
the day.  At night I can usually only see light sources, which makes
navigation much slower.  I work in Manhattan and finding my way along
crowded New York sidewalks after dark is not much fun.  I think a dog will
be a great help in those situations and also keep me safer on subway
platforms and street crossings.  I'm also tired of hitting my head on
overhead branches here in Stamford and occasionally smacking into things
like street signs.  I'm sure that no guide dog will be perfect, but it's
bound to be an improvement.  

Happy Thanksgiving to you also.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:19 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi Ted,
Are you a native or did you move to Ct?  If you go up to Vermont or New
Hampshire, they refer to us as flat landers and don't consider Ct. to be
part of Newe England.  You are lucky, if one can use that word, to get to
your age and still be able to get around with a cane.  Perhaps you have the
dominant genetic variety.  Did one of your parents have RP?  Not to
discourage, but it can be a long wait with Fidelco.  They are the only guide
dog school in New England and they also service New York, New Jersey and any
place that one of their graduates has moved and now needs a successor dog.
I have a friend in Chicago.  She got her first dog from Seeing Eye, the
original school, in Morristown, New Jersey.  Her wait was far less than you
can expect from Fidelco, and she was quite pleased with the entire
experience.  It's something to consider.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ted Shelly
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:09 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi Jeff,

I'm practically a neighbor of yours - I'm just down the road in Stamford.  I
also have RP.  I'm 57 and have been using a cane full time for the last
decade or so and I'm just now working on getting my first guide dog.  I've
applied to Fidelco and I'm hoping they will accept me without too much of a
wait.  Welcome to the list.

Ted 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:28 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] New member

Hi,
I just joined this week and was glad to read the digest.  My name is Jeff
Schwartz.  I am a psychologist and have lived in New Haven by way of
Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Scranton.  I didn't know that I had a significant
visual problem until I was about 20.  At that time I was already legally
blind due to the insidious deterioration of my visual field from Retinitis
Pigmentosa.  At age 61, I'm left with little more than light perception.  I
recently received my third guide dog, Faith, from Fidelco.  They are a
superb organization.  The founders, Charles and Roberta Kaman have been
raising German Shepherd dogs for about 40 years.  Originally they raised
them as show dogs.  The story which I heard is that they started the school
after one of the dogs prevented their young son from running into traffic.
John Byfield was their first trainer.  He was my trainer for my second dog,
Webster.  John is from the "old school".  My wife and I called him the dog
Nazi.  He was really tough, as were all of the early trainers.  The new
breed, if you'll pardon the pun, rely more on positive reinforcement.  I
really liked the in community orientation, as you get four hours a day of
the trainer's undivided attention.  I don't think that there are any bad or
even mediocre schools.  German Shepherds are fantastic dogs.  If I were in
the position to select a pet, it would be a GSD.  The only problem that I
have encountered is that they tend to be dog aggressive.  Fidelco gets its
breeding stock from Germany.  They are only a generation or two away from
being working shepherds.  Every pure bred dog was selectively shaped to
perform a certain task, even lap dogs.  Centuries ago, before central
heating and indoor plumbing people seldom bathed.  As a consequence, they
had fleas.  They would sit with a dog in their lap because, given a choice,
fleas prefer dogs.  Back to German Shepherds and dog aggression.  They were
bred to keep the flock together and protect it from predators.  Today's
German Shepherds are "hard wired" to see other dogs as potential predators.


Like all of you, I have had my share of blind stereotypes tossed my way.
When I was younger, slim and walked with a white cane, I went into a
Wal-Mart's and the greeter asked me if I wanted a wheelchair.  I've been in
restaurants with my wife and had the service person ask her "and what will
he have"   I guess we have all heard, "you don't look blind". 
Anyway, sorry to have gone on at such length.  I'm glad to have joined this
group and I'm sure that I will enjoy participating.  I don't usually talk so
much.  Just ask my spouse.   

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:42 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: New member

Hi Mardi,
I liked the part about "You don't look blind...".  That one had me stumped
for years and years.  I didn't know what people meant by the remark.  I
thoought it was people denying that I was blind. Well, a sighted friend
finally explained the basis of the remark to me.  He said that people look
at a blind person and see the blindness.  People have this view that blind
people are people who rock, jam their fingers or fist into their eye.  They
walk with a stiff-leggeed gait and don't look at people who are talking to
them.  In other words, the crappy stereotypes people think of when you say,
"blind person".

Marti, you used to be a sighted person.  Think back on your sighted days
long before you ever met a blind person. What did your mind conjure up? Now,

me - I've always been visually impaired and I can't and never was able to
see people's faces and the expressions on them.  I had no clue about "look
blind" sinse I've spent a lifetime around blind people.

My friend told me that when someone tells me that I don't "look blind" I
need to take it as a compliment.  The statement really says that you look
normal - like a SIGHTED person!  You and I do not have the so-called "blind
mannerisms" that so many sheltered congenitally blind people display.  You
learned how to be as a sighted child - what was socially acceptable. As a
child, I was taught by my parents how to be in public and that people can
see what I do.  So, you and I behave in a normal socially acceptable manner.

We look at people who speak to us.  We don't poke our eyes with our fingers
or fists.  Our eyes may look pretty normal - well - mine wiggle with
nystagmus.  We rock only to music or while seated in a rocking chair.

I don't remember if you are totally blind or are partially sighted.  Being
in a wheelchair, I can see how people think your guide is a wheelchair
service dog.  There aren't too many of you out there. I know several
visually impaired wheelchair users but they see too much to use a guide dog
and they don't have a service dog, either.

I know it's annoying when people don't know.  People think you are either
fully sighted - "Oh, you must be faking it!" or you are totally blind. 
People still don't seem to grasp the idea of all kinds of partial vision in
between. I tell them that I have enough vision to be dangerous.  We then
have a laugh.

Hope that helps!  Thank God we are normal people who can give the public a
good impression of who blind people are.

Take care and Happy Holidays!

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] service vs therapy dogs and welcome


> Hi every one,   I have had similar experiences with Therapy dog owners.
> They seem to think they know it all. They seem to think,because I am 
> in a wheelchair that my dog is not a guide.They can't see beyond the 
> chair. My dog must be a  "wheelchair dog",because I use a wheelchair.
> I am told that

> I
> don't look blind. Can some one tell me what a blind person looks like?  
> Do they all look the same? I get so aggravated at these people, that I 
> don't even try to explain. I just roll away and ignore them. There are 
> too
many
> other battles that are more important to take care of.           Welcome
> Ted.  All my guides have been Siberian Huskies except for my current 
> trainee,Wanagi. She is a Husky/Shepherd cross, and I adopted her from 
> the pound. I have trained my dogs with the aid of a private trainer.
> I am sure that whatever school you choose, you will get a wonderful, 
> and faithful
> partner.     Have a great day, Mardi and Nala, retired, Wanagi, gdit, and
> Tokala,gdit.
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lindagwizdak%40people
pc.com
> 


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End of nagdu Digest, Vol 44, Issue 27
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