[nagdu] Birmingham Airport is in Alabama

[cheryl echevarria]

Birmingham is in Alabama which is in  the USA

Cheryl Echevarria
Treasurer
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Long Island Chapter


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:00 PM
Subject: nagdu Digest, Vol 43, Issue 28


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. out in public (cheryl echevarria)
>    2. Re: A Question of Philosophy (lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com)
>    3. Re: Service dog killed on Portland bus (Sam)
>    4. Re: Service dog killed on Portland bus (Sam)
>    5. Re: msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
>       (lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com)
>    6. Re: Out of the way in public (Angie Matney)
>    7. Re: Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport - (Julie J.)
>    8. Re: A Question of Philosophy (Angie Matney)
>    9. Re: A Question of Philosophy (Julie J.)
>   10. Re: holiday gathering at the mall (cheryl echevarria)
>   11. Re: A Question of Philosophy (Angie Matney)
>   12. Re: msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel (Julie J.)
>   13. Re: Service dog killed on Portland bus (Michael Hingson)
>   14. Re: Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>       (MS S TILLETT)
>   15. Re: A Question of Philosophy (Jennie Facer)
>   16. Re: Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>       (Michael Hingson)
>   17. Re: Service dog killed on a bus (Mardi Hadfield)
>   18. Re: msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
>       (melissa R. Green)
>   19. Service animals take their spot on Portland buses (Ginger Kutsch)
>   20. The definition of service animals grows (Ginger Kutsch)
>   21. Re: Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>       (Pickrell, Rebecca M.)
>   22. Re: Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>       (Pickrell, Rebecca M.)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:16:58 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [nagdu] out in public
> To: "nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY131-DS20772C621F5C12F3E4416A1270 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well at GDF, Jeanine correct me if I am wrong, do they still have the
> different seating in the little eating area where they have the 4 
> different
> types of seatings at restaurant.
>
> I thought that was great, that GDF has that there. I don't let maxx sprawl
> anywhere, and he prefers to be out of the way anyway. sometimes his tail
> sticks out or his nose.
>
>
> he prefers when we are out to put his head on my foot. and curl up as much
> as possible.
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Treasurer
> National Federation of the Blind
> Greater Long Island Chapter
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:22:35 -0700
> From: <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <001b01c93919$643859b0$5efc5142 at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Ann,
> I would definately talk to this writer about Panda and what she does for
> you.  I think this is a great opportunity to show the general public what 
> a
> guide horse is and what it can do.  I would ask her further what "life
> saving" means to her.  Use this as an opportunity to teach people the
> realitiies of what it is to be blind.  Use some of what you said in your
> post.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:06 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
>
>
> > Hi, Everyone,,
> >
> > I have recently been contacted by a writer who is writing a book about
> > "animals which save lives".  She is interested in talking with me about
> > Panda and her work as a guide.  I responded to the writer that I am 
> > always
> > happy to talk about Panda and her guide work, but that I had some qualms
> > about focusing on the "life-saving", dramatic aspect of our partnership.
> >
> > I know that many guide dog users will say that their dogs "save their
> > lives" many times each day.  But to me this statement can very easily be
> > misunderstood by the general public.  It could give the impression that
> > blind people are incapable of traveling safely outside their homes 
> > without
> > the miraculous life-saving instincts and skills of a specially-bred and
> > specially-trained service animal.  Although I very much appreciate my
> > guide's abilities to guide me around obstacles, to evaluate footing for
> > hazardous conditions, to plan a route through construction sites and 
> > other
> > complicated situations, and to judge traffic and take evasive action or
> > exercise intelligent disobedience where necessary, I guess I am more
> > inclined to frame our safe travel as the result of contributions by both
> > the human and the animal members of the partnership.
> >
> > Also, I usually think of Panda's guide work as making travel smoother,
> > more efficient, and more relaxing and enjoyable for me, rather than as a
> > matter of life and death.  I feel that I am capable of traveling safely
> > using my white cane, as well as using my guide animal.  In either case, 
> > I
> > still must use my senses of hearing, touch, and smell, and my
> > intelligence, experience, and judgment to evaluate the environment 
> > around
> > me every moment as I travel.  Of course, I appreciate the assistance 
> > that
> > Panda provides me, or why would I take on the added responsibilities and
> > chores that caring for an animal partner and maintaining a working
> > partnership entail?
> >
> > Another reason that I am reluctant to talk about the work of a guide
> > animal as "life-saving" work is that I do not regard the world as an
> > inherently dangerous and scary place, or at least, not significantly 
> > more
> > dangerous to me as a blind person than to anyone else in the general
> > population.  I can remember sitting in my 7th grade health class and
> > hearing the teacher say, "Turn to the person sitting next to you and 
> > take
> > a good look at him or her.  Statistics show that one of the two of you
> > will be seriously injured or killed in a traffic accident."  And this 
> > was
> > in a class where everyone was fully-sighted, except for me.
> >
> > I know that one way of looking at the world is that we are taking our
> > lives into our hands every time we venture out onto the streets.  In 
> > that
> > light, the service our guides provide may be considered truly 
> > life-saving.
> > But then, don't we take risks of harm to life and health every time we
> > breathe the air, drink the water, or eat food purchased at the local
> > market?  The alternative, of not doing anything unless it can be shown 
> > to
> > be risk-free, is neither very attractive, nor very practical.
> >
> > And here is the final thought that causes me pause when I am asked to
> > describe the "life-saving" work of my guide:  Haven't we all heard of
> > blind people who have been injured or killed while walking with their
> > guide animals?  Obviously, there is no guarantee of safety, with or
> > without a well-trained guide animal.  There is only the increased
> > probability of successful travel that can be achieved by using all the
> > skills and techniques that we ourselves judge will work best for each of
> > us as individuals.
> >
> > I would welcome your thoughts on this subject to help me formulate how 
> > to
> > frame the discussion with the writer who has contacted me, as well as 
> > for
> > future reference.
> >
> > Best,
> > Ann
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:38:23 -0500
> From: Sam <sam at tcq.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Message-ID: <mailman.94.1225296004.10010.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Personally, I'm wondering why either one of them were on the bus?
>
> Sam
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Claude Everett" <ceverett at dslextreme.com
> >To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >Date sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:31:22 -0700
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >Just by reading the article the dog killed was a companion dog
> not a real
> >service dog.  And***  what reason  was the Rot wilder  on the bus
> for? was it
> >a service animal?
> >Regards,
> >Claude Everett
> >American by chance, Californian by choice.
> >Everyone has a disability, some are more aware of it than others.
> >"If we have learned one thing from the civil rights movement in
> the united
> >states, it is that when you let others speak for you, you lose."
> >Ed Roberts
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >Of Jennie Facer
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:07 AM
> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >That is really sad!
>
> >Jenn
>
> >TO THE WORLD YOU ARE SOMEONE, BUT TO SOMEONE YOU ARE THE WORLD!
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >Of Ginger Kutsch
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:23 AM
> >To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> >Subject: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >Service dog killed on Portland bus
> >10/28/2008,
> >The Associated Press
> >http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-27/12251
> 82546240560
> >..xml&storylist=orlocal
> >PORTLAND, Ore.  (AP) - TriMet, which increased security following
> a series of
> >high-profile assaults involving humans, is now faced with a
> brutal case of
> >dog-on-dog violence.
>
> >The attack happened late Sunday afternoon when Leroy Morley and
> his 50-pound
> >Rottweiler mix were walking toward the front of the bus to exit
> in North
> >Portland, said Peggy LaPoint, a spokeswoman for the mass transit
> agency.
>
> >Marie Kelemen, the owner of the victim, said the bigger dog
> neither growled
> >nor barked before breaking the neck of Buddy, the 7-pound
> Pomeranian that
> >bled to death in her lap.
>
>
> >Transit police responded to the scene.  Morley was allowed to
> leave, but has
> >been barred from riding TriMet buses and trains for 30 days.
>
> >Kelemen, 59, of Portland said the penalty is not severe enough.
> "It was
> >horrible," she told The Oregonian newspaper.  "It was terrible.
> That's why 30
> >days is ludicrous."
>
> >The Pomeranian was a service dog and therefore authorized to ride
> the bus.
> >The larger dog was not.
>
> >The case has been referred to Multnomah County Animal Services,
> spokesman
> >John Rowton said.  "But we haven't seen the report, and we're
> waiting for a
> >copy of the video from the bus' surveillance camera."
>
> >TriMet's Web site states that service dogs are allowed to ride
> buses and
> >trains but must be kept on a leash or in a carrier.  The
> definition of a
> >service dog is broad.  According to the Americans with
> Disabilities Act, a
> >service animal can be "any guide dog, signal dog or other animal
> >individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with
> a
> >disability."
>
> >Kelemen said she has a doctor's note that authorized Buddy to be
> her
> >companion dog.  "He was such a nice little guy," she said.  "It's
> awfully
> >quiet without him."
>
> >___
>
> >Information from: The Oregonian, http://www.oregonlive.com
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/puppya%40c
> learwire.ne
> >t
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
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> 0dslextreme
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>
>
> >_______________________________________________
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> net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:38:23 -0500
> From: Sam <sam at tcq.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Message-ID: <mailman.95.1225296004.10010.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Personally, I'm wondering why either one of them were on the bus?
>
> Sam
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Claude Everett" <ceverett at dslextreme.com
> >To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >Date sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:31:22 -0700
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >Just by reading the article the dog killed was a companion dog
> not a real
> >service dog.  And***  what reason  was the Rot wilder  on the bus
> for? was it
> >a service animal?
> >Regards,
> >Claude Everett
> >American by chance, Californian by choice.
> >Everyone has a disability, some are more aware of it than others.
> >"If we have learned one thing from the civil rights movement in
> the united
> >states, it is that when you let others speak for you, you lose."
> >Ed Roberts
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >Of Jennie Facer
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:07 AM
> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >That is really sad!
>
> >Jenn
>
> >TO THE WORLD YOU ARE SOMEONE, BUT TO SOMEONE YOU ARE THE WORLD!
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >Of Ginger Kutsch
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:23 AM
> >To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> >Subject: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >Service dog killed on Portland bus
> >10/28/2008,
> >The Associated Press
> >http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-27/12251
> 82546240560
> >..xml&storylist=orlocal
> >PORTLAND, Ore.  (AP) - TriMet, which increased security following
> a series of
> >high-profile assaults involving humans, is now faced with a
> brutal case of
> >dog-on-dog violence.
>
> >The attack happened late Sunday afternoon when Leroy Morley and
> his 50-pound
> >Rottweiler mix were walking toward the front of the bus to exit
> in North
> >Portland, said Peggy LaPoint, a spokeswoman for the mass transit
> agency.
>
> >Marie Kelemen, the owner of the victim, said the bigger dog
> neither growled
> >nor barked before breaking the neck of Buddy, the 7-pound
> Pomeranian that
> >bled to death in her lap.
>
>
> >Transit police responded to the scene.  Morley was allowed to
> leave, but has
> >been barred from riding TriMet buses and trains for 30 days.
>
> >Kelemen, 59, of Portland said the penalty is not severe enough.
> "It was
> >horrible," she told The Oregonian newspaper.  "It was terrible.
> That's why 30
> >days is ludicrous."
>
> >The Pomeranian was a service dog and therefore authorized to ride
> the bus.
> >The larger dog was not.
>
> >The case has been referred to Multnomah County Animal Services,
> spokesman
> >John Rowton said.  "But we haven't seen the report, and we're
> waiting for a
> >copy of the video from the bus' surveillance camera."
>
> >TriMet's Web site states that service dogs are allowed to ride
> buses and
> >trains but must be kept on a leash or in a carrier.  The
> definition of a
> >service dog is broad.  According to the Americans with
> Disabilities Act, a
> >service animal can be "any guide dog, signal dog or other animal
> >individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with
> a
> >disability."
>
> >Kelemen said she has a doctor's note that authorized Buddy to be
> her
> >companion dog.  "He was such a nice little guy," she said.  "It's
> awfully
> >quiet without him."
>
> >___
>
> >Information from: The Oregonian, http://www.oregonlive.com
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/puppya%40c
> learwire.ne
> >t
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ceverett%4
> 0dslextreme
> >..com
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
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> net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:53:53 -0700
> From: <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local
> hotel
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <006601c93926$26014e10$5efc5142 at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Hi,
> I saw the article whose link is below.  That stinks about the hotel lying 
> to
> the woman with the service dog in training.
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> To: "nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:30 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
>
>
> > Let me know if you are able to get his messaage.
> >
> > Service dog turned away from local hotel
> > Emily Longnecker/Eyewitness News
> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27368805/from/ET/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lindagwizdak%40peoplepc.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:28:17 -0400
> From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Out of the way in public
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <mailman.96.1225296004.10010.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Tracy,
>
> In my TSE class, the lead instructor (and therefore, pretty much all the 
> other instructors) insisted on the dogs going under chairs. This must be a 
> thing that varies from class to class. I prefer the under-the-chair 
> method, too, but some charis
> aren't designed to accommodate even a small dog because of a bar 
> underneath. In these situations, I might ask if one of the chairs at the 
> table could be moved so that the dog won't protrude into the aisle.
>
> I think that in your situation, Darleen, it's possible that the restaurant 
> staff person was probably just overzealous in enforcing a reg about 
> unobstructed aisles. I had a flight attendant say something to me along 
> those lines once. In that case,
> glaze's nose was just *barely* protruding past the edge of the seat. She 
> was not lying in the aisle.
>
> Best,
>
> Angie with Yani and retired Glaze
>
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:16:38 -0400 (EDT), Tracy Carcione wrote:
>
> >Jeanine, I couldn't agree more!  It's not just at conventions that people
> >let dogs sprawl out any old where.  It drives me buggy.  It's dangerous
> >for the dog, and rude to other people.  Guess I'm getting old-farty, too.
> >And I'm not sure the schools emphasize it as much anymore, either.  I
> >remember my first class at GDB we got it hammered in to us, but in later
> >classes I didn't hear much about it.  Though they might have figured we
> >retrains already knew (not a valid assumption.)
> >In my class at TSE, they did talk about it.  But the technique my
> >instructor insisted on was putting the dog beside my chair, and I've
> >always preferred the under the chair method myself.
> >But at least they talked about it.
> >Tracy
>
> >> Darlene asked if anyone had ever heard of a fire martial rule about 
> >> dogs
> >> having to be out of the walkway in restaurants.
> >>
> >> Though I've never heard of this and though I realize some dogs are 
> >> large
> >> and
> >> many table and booth setups aren't exactly dog friendly, I hate to be a
> >> giant prude about this, but your dog shouldn't be in the walk way 
> >> period.
> >> If
> >> you have to move a chair to give the dog space, do so. If you need to 
> >> sit
> >> in
> >> a particular place because your dog is larger, do so. I know there are
> >> places where dogs just can't fit under the table, but most times there 
> >> are
> >> ways to keep them out of the general walkway.
> >>
> >> It's dangerous not only for people walking, who are usually not looking
> >> down, but for your dog, who could be tripped over, have hot food or 
> >> liquid
> >> spilled on it or be bothered by the many children I encounter more and
> >> more
> >> often, unsupervised in restaurants.
> >>
> >> Gee, I really do think I am becoming my mother here, but I don't recall
> >> ever
> >> being allowed to get up and wander around during a meal, at home or in
> >> public. <grin>
> >>
> >> I know that at many guide dog schools, Southeastern included, they do 
> >> make
> >> a
> >> big deal about the dogs being out of the way and several schools have a
> >> variety of seating options in some of their lounges to practice this
> >> chore.
> >>
> >> I'm not yelling at anyone here or saying that the fire martial stuff is
> >> correct. It's probably not, but my guess too is that someone has 
> >> tripped
> >> over a dog there and hence the warning.
> >>
> >> Sadly, I've been to my share of conventions where dogs are just sort of
> >> everywhere. This is due in part to hotels choosing to make tables at
> >> banquets and luncheons rounds of 10 with chairs packed together so you
> >> can't
> >> really make room. <grin> Not good, but even when there are a lot of 
> >> dogs,
> >> most hotel style chairs can accommodate a dog under them.
> >>
> >> Again, showing my "Old Fartedness", does it seem as if there is less
> >> stress
> >> being put on dog awareness than in past guide dog training? I realize 
> >> it's
> >> not politically correct, or exactly helpful, to yell at people, play
> >> tricks
> >> on them, etc. during class, but I recall during my first several 
> >> classes
> >> at
> >> 2 different schools, having the fear of Instructor put into me over 
> >> where
> >> my
> >> dog was and what it was doing. Sometimes, the dog just disappeared. I 
> >> have
> >> to say proudly that this never happened to me, but certainly I got my
> >> share
> >> of public and private admonishments to pay attention to my dog's
> >> whereabouts. This extended to how the dog was positioned under tables.
> >>
> >> When I first went to GDF back in 1990, we had a dining room setup that
> >> looked very much like one of those little country restaurants. There 
> >> were
> >> tables that sat 4 people plus a seat on either end. The tables had the
> >> long
> >> braces at the bottom in an X shape so they crossed the space under
> >> everyone's feet. The chairs were those little wooden country seats with
> >> the
> >> bar underneath. This made getting a dog under the table extremely
> >> interesting. We had a system where people sitting diagonally across 
> >> from
> >> each other brought their dogs to meals. As you can imagine, by about 
> >> the
> >> third week, no one could remember whose turn it was to bring his/her 
> >> dog
> >> to
> >> lunch and things could get ugly. <grin>
> >>
> >> One thing it did teach though was how to get a dog under a table like 
> >> that
> >> and keep it there while another, equally uncomfortable dog was doing 
> >> the
> >> same across the way.
> >>
> >> Now we have round tables that seat 4 regularly but can seat up to 6.
> >> Chairs
> >> allow for dogs to go under them easily, if not readily, and all dogs 
> >> come
> >> to
> >> each meal.
> >>
> >> I've had 50 pound dogs and 80 pound dogs and both were able to fit
> >> reasonably under things. Some did so with a lot more grace than others.
> >> <grin> My current guy is big. He's tall and bulky but he can curl up 
> >> under
> >> a
> >> chair fairly neatly.
> >>
> >> Even when going out with both of our dogs, my husband and I try 
> >> extremely
> >> hard to keep them out of the aisles and walkways. They are both around 
> >> 75
> >> pounds but his Golden is a bit lankier.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the rant here but Darlene's question sparked a topic I've 
> >> been
> >> fussing over for ages.
> >>
> >>  Jenine Stanley
> >> Sorry, I don't have the authority to save the world today.
> >> jeninems at wowway.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nagdu:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
> >>
>
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> >nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leadinglabbie%40mpmail.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:35:05 -0500
> From: "Julie J." <jlcrane at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport
> -
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <00c901c9392b$e6232650$01fea8c0 at your07cc84feb2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> What country is this airport in?
>
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerkutsch at yahoo.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:09 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
>
> > Assistance Dogs Now Welcome At Birmingham Airport
> > Monday 27th October 2008
> > http://www.compare-airport-parking.co.uk/news/1244/Assistance-Dogs-No
> >
> > w-Welcome-At-Birmingham-Airport.html
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Birmingham Airport passengers that suffer from visual impairments will
> >
> > now be able to travel through the airport with greater ease after it was
> >
> > announced that assistance dogs are welcome.
> >
> > The new rules are set to benefit those passengers with sight problems as
> >
> > they will be able to travel through the whole airport with the 
> > assistance
> > of
> >
> > their dog. The One Complete Solution (OCS) group that are already
> >
> > responsible for caring for passengers with mobility problems at the
> > airport
> >
> > will take charge of the new process.
> >
> > The reasons behind the new rules are due to a recent piece of EU
> >
> > legislation that now permits guide dogs to be allowed on flights on a
> >
> > number of routes. This new rule is set to greatly enhance the experience
> > of
> >
> > passing through the airport for those passengers with sight problems.
> >
> > When passenger with a guide dog arrive at the airport the vacination
> >
> > history of the canine will be checked and additional assistance will be
> >
> > provided for guide dogs and thir owners who will be met and taken
> >
> > through the airport terminal upon arrival by a member of staff.
> >
> > Speaking about the new regulations was John Morris, Head of Corporate
> >
> > Affairs who said;
> >
> > "Being able to welcome assistance dogs here will make it even easier for
> >
> > those with visual impairments to use the Midlands' premier airport. The
> >
> > Airport team has worked with a number of partners to make this project a
> >
> > success and we look forward to welcoming many more assistance dogs
> >
> > through Birmingham in the coming months."
> >
> > The airport does request that those passengers who are to be travelling
> >
> > with a guide or assistance dog contact the airline or tour operator 
> > before
> >
> > they travel to ensure the correct procedures are in place to deal with
> > their
> >
> > visit.
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Published by: Jon Vickery
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlcrane%40alltel.net
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:35:53 -0400
> From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <mailman.97.1225296004.10010.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Rebecca,
>
> You make some good points. But I think it's possible to create effective 
> fundraising material without making the human half of the team seem 
> utterly incompetent. It might require a little more creativity, but this 
> shouldn't be too onerous a task for
> anyone who is serious about their craft.
>
> Remember the Ivy Creek website from a few years ago? "We provide the gift 
> of light in a world of darkness..." <gag>
>
> And the irony is that this is the one school that explicitly stated they 
> weren't tyring to raise funds, since they were independently financed.
>
> (Also, I'm not casting any aspersions on anyone who has ever been 
> affiliated with Ivy Creek. But you have to admit that was a little over 
> the top.)
>
> Angie
>
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:20:48 -0400, Pickrell, Rebecca M. wrote:
>
> >First, I'll start off by saying that Ann's message was great.
> >Second, the hero dog sells, which is why it is used in literature and
> >fund-raising. It's a marketting tool, not an anti-NFB tactic.
> >Ann, I hope the author takes what you say and can use it in his or her
> >book.
> >You write the truth. Unfortunately, the truth doesn't have the zing that
> >the wonder dog does.
> >Emotions are what people use when they buy and fund-raising is just
> >another form of buying a product. The  difference is that the consumer
> >is buying a dream, not something he or she can hold in their hands.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:40:17 -0500
> From: "Julie J." <jlcrane at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <00d301c9392c$9fe885d0$01fea8c0 at your07cc84feb2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Ann,
>
> I think you have pretty well summed up my thoughts, although I don't think 
> I
> could have conveyed them so well! *smile*
>
> My sincerest wishes that you are able to have some meaningful dialogue 
> with
> the writer and that she incorporates your information into her book.
>
> Best wishes,
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:06 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
>
>
> > Hi, Everyone,,
> >
> > I have recently been contacted by a writer who is writing a book about
> > "animals which save lives".  She is interested in talking with me about
> > Panda and her work as a guide.  I responded to the writer that I am 
> > always
> > happy to talk about Panda and her guide work, but that I had some qualms
> > about focusing on the "life-saving", dramatic aspect of our partnership.
> >
> > I know that many guide dog users will say that their dogs "save their
> > lives" many times each day.  But to me this statement can very easily be
> > misunderstood by the general public.  It could give the impression that
> > blind people are incapable of traveling safely outside their homes 
> > without
> > the miraculous life-saving instincts and skills of a specially-bred and
> > specially-trained service animal.  Although I very much appreciate my
> > guide's abilities to guide me around obstacles, to evaluate footing for
> > hazardous conditions, to plan a route through construction sites and 
> > other
> > complicated situations, and to judge traffic and take evasive action or
> > exercise intelligent disobedience where necessary, I guess I am more
> > inclined to frame our safe travel as the result of contributions by both
> > the human and the animal members of the partnership.
> >
> > Also, I usually think of Panda's guide work as making travel smoother,
> > more efficient, and more relaxing and enjoyable for me, rather than as a
> > matter of life and death.  I feel that I am capable of traveling safely
> > using my white cane, as well as using my guide animal.  In either case, 
> > I
> > still must use my senses of hearing, touch, and smell, and my
> > intelligence, experience, and judgment to evaluate the environment 
> > around
> > me every moment as I travel.  Of course, I appreciate the assistance 
> > that
> > Panda provides me, or why would I take on the added responsibilities and
> > chores that caring for an animal partner and maintaining a working
> > partnership entail?
> >
> > Another reason that I am reluctant to talk about the work of a guide
> > animal as "life-saving" work is that I do not regard the world as an
> > inherently dangerous and scary place, or at least, not significantly 
> > more
> > dangerous to me as a blind person than to anyone else in the general
> > population.  I can remember sitting in my 7th grade health class and
> > hearing the teacher say, "Turn to the person sitting next to you and 
> > take
> > a good look at him or her.  Statistics show that one of the two of you
> > will be seriously injured or killed in a traffic accident."  And this 
> > was
> > in a class where everyone was fully-sighted, except for me.
> >
> > I know that one way of looking at the world is that we are taking our
> > lives into our hands every time we venture out onto the streets.  In 
> > that
> > light, the service our guides provide may be considered truly 
> > life-saving.
> > But then, don't we take risks of harm to life and health every time we
> > breathe the air, drink the water, or eat food purchased at the local
> > market?  The alternative, of not doing anything unless it can be shown 
> > to
> > be risk-free, is neither very attractive, nor very practical.
> >
> > And here is the final thought that causes me pause when I am asked to
> > describe the "life-saving" work of my guide:  Haven't we all heard of
> > blind people who have been injured or killed while walking with their
> > guide animals?  Obviously, there is no guarantee of safety, with or
> > without a well-trained guide animal.  There is only the increased
> > probability of successful travel that can be achieved by using all the
> > skills and techniques that we ourselves judge will work best for each of
> > us as individuals.
> >
> > I would welcome your thoughts on this subject to help me formulate how 
> > to
> > frame the discussion with the writer who has contacted me, as well as 
> > for
> > future reference.
> >
> > Best,
> > Ann
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlcrane%40alltel.net
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:41:23 -0400
> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] holiday gathering at the mall
> To: "New York Association of Guide Dog Users" <nyagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY131-DS6F289E2EE3DD233EC40DFA1270 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> here is the response to me being at the mall on the 6th, unfortunately I
> have told the mall many a time that I work on Thursday and Friday.   I 
> will
> try and do this and maybe try to get to work late I will have to see what 
> I
> can do.   I am also forwarding this to NAGDU.
>
> Take care.
>
> I think this would be great to do as something that all NAGDU chapters can
> work on.
>
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Treasurer
> National Federation of the Blind
> Greater Long Island Chapter
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Adam Heaven" <aheaven at us.westfield.com>
> To: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "Christiann Wallace" <cwallace at us.westfield.com>; "John Best"
> <JBEST at us.westfield.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:46 AM
> Subject: RE: holiday gathering at the mall
>
>
> Hi Cheryl:
>
> The retailer meeting will be Thursday, November 6th at 8:30am in the
> food court.  As originally discussed, you are welcome to attend the
> meeting and give a short presentation about the legalities of service
> animals in public places.  Please understand that we cover quite a bit
> of material for the retailers in a very short amount of time as the
> retailers have the obligation to staff their stores before the 10am mall
> open time so we would appreciate it if you are able to keep your
> presentation very brief.  If you are available to stay after the meeting
> the retailers that have additional time would be invited to approach you
> with any further questions they may have.
>
> As for as Barbizon goes (and all other tables, carts, booths, etc...)
> they pay a daily/weekend/weekly fee to be here in the center.
> Unfortunately, due to the extraordinary demand of non-profits wanting to
> set up informational tables here at the center we had to place a stop on
> the table set ups as we could not possibly accommodate everyone.  If you
> wanted to find a sponsor for your group who would be willing to pay a
> nominal fee for the table set up at the center we would be happy to
> accommodate you.  There are other requirements such as insurance, etc
> that we can discuss if you are still interested.  Please let me know if
> you have any questions- I will be happy to assist you with getting a
> table display.
>
> I look forward to hearing back from you about your availability on
> Thursday, November 6th.  As always, please don't hesitate to contact me
> if you have any questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Adam Heaven
> Assistant General Manager
> Westfield South Shore
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheryl echevarria [mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:29 AM
> To: Adam Heaven
> Subject: holiday gathering at the mall
>
> I have 2 questions.  First want to know when you are having that
> gathering
> with the retailers prior to the holiday since next week is the first
> week of
> November.  I am meeting with Assemblyman Ramos and Senator Trunzo that
> Wednesday after the elections.
>
> Also, when I was in the mall a few weeks ago you had a table with the
> Modeling School Barbizon.  I was wondering what was that all about. I
> had
> asked if I could get a table for the NFB, October is meet the blind
> month.
> and I am also looking for members for the Suffolk County Chapter as well
> as
> talk to the public about guide dogs.
>
> Is there anyway of doing this. I don't plan on selling anything I just
> want
> to be able to do an information table.  And the girl scouts sell there
> cookies there every year as well.
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Treasurer
> National Federation of the Blind
> Greater Long Island Chapter
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:41:45 -0400
> From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <mailman.98.1225296004.10010.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Here's an excerpt from Love in the Lead that makes the point:
>
>           Before he left Vevey, two experiences  completed his conversion 
> to a religious faith in Buddy.  The first appeared on a sunken road 
> leading up from the funicular to Fortunate Fields.  Ahead of him he heard 
> galloping hoofs and clattering wheels
> bearing down at a breakneck speed.  For just an instant, Buddy paused, 
> then wheeled right and pulled him off the road up a steep embankment.  The 
> harness handle seemed to be rising nearly over his head, but he hung on 
> tight and stumbled up
> after her.  He reached the top only moments before a pair of runaway 
> horses dragging a heavy peasant cart thundered by.  Jack Humphrey, who saw 
> it all, was too far behind to come to the rescue.  Buddy had done it all 
> on her own.
>           The second experience was far less dramatic, even prosaic. 
> Morris was sitting in the drawing room before lunch listening to Mrs. 
> Eustis playing one of the grand pianos.
>           "I need a haircut," he mused, fingering the hair above his ears. 
> "Do you think Mr. Eustis could take me down to the barber shop this 
> afternoon?"
>           The piano paused.  "You have Buddy, Morris," Mrs. Eustis 
> suggested.  'Why don't you go with her?"
>           Why didn't he go with her?  The thought was staggering.  It was 
> a long moment before he could take it in.  He could go with Buddy.  He 
> didn't have to depend on a human guide, wait until it suited his 
> convenience and feel obligated for the
> favor afterwards.  He could go with Buddy, who would ask no thanks beyond 
> the "Atta good girls" that were becoming second nature and who would feel 
> proud and happy at the opportunity to work.
>           After lunch, Morris harnessed Buddy and headed for the 
> funicular.  In Vevey they threaded their way to the barber shop and 
> returned.  The trip had none of the thrill of a narrow escape from runaway 
> horses, but its meaning was far more
> exciting to Morris.  A runaway team comes once in a lifetime.  Haircuts 
> come every few weeks.  Nothing could be more ordinary.  That is the reason 
> why it is so hard to get a human guide to take a blind man for a haircut. 
> Family and friends will be
> generous on important occasions.  It is the ordinary prosaic little 
> chores, the trips to the barber shop or post office, the purchase of 
> shoelaces or tooth paste that can be most frustrating by reason of their 
> very simplicity.
>           Late that afternoon, sitting alone  on the terrace overlooking 
> the lake, Morris began to laugh.  He couldn't stop.  The more he tried, 
> the harder he laughed.  Mrs. Eustis overheard him and came out to find him 
> alone, laughing as she had never
> heard him laugh before.
>           "What in the world is the matter?"
>           It took Morris a moment to control himself.  Then he explained. 
> "At home in Nashville getting my hair cut was a major event.  Some days 
> Father would drop me off at the barber shop on his way to work and leave 
> me there until he could pick
> me up on his way home to lunch.  Today Buddy took me to get my hair cut. 
> For the first time in four years, I'm free.  That's why I'm laughing. 
> Because I'm free, by God.  I'm free!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:47:17 -0500
> From: "Julie J." <jlcrane at alltel.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local
> hotel
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <00db01c9392d$9a848f20$01fea8c0 at your07cc84feb2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I think it also depends on your interpretation of the service dog in
> training laws.  Personally, I don't think the law is meant to be 
> interpreted
> that the dog in training can go anywhere, anytime as long as the trainer
> accompanies the dog.  My personal belief is that there needs to be some
> training going on.    I don't know what sort of training would be taking
> place in a hotel after the first bit.  Really would it take days and days 
> to
> teach the dog about hotel etiquette?  I think that too often the service 
> dog
> in training laws are used for the convenience factor and not the training
> factor.
>
> JMHO
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
>
>
> > Well there you go.  Thanks for sending this along.
> >
> > As usual it's about education.
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson,
> > NSA
> > President,
> > The Michael Hingson Group
> > 84 Bahama Reef
> > Novato, CA 94949
> > Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
> > Fax number (415) 883-6220
> > Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
> > Email
> > info at michaelhingson.com
> > <
> > mailto:
> > info at michaelhingson.com>
> > For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and his
> > consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind persons
> > please
> > visit <
> > http://www.michaelhingson.com>
> > For information on Guide Dogs for the Blind please visit <
> > http://www.guidedogs.com>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> > Behalf
> > Of Cyndy Otty
> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:58 PM
> > To: NAGDU
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
> >
> > Indiana law (*IC 16-32-3-2*) does state that trainers are granted the 
> > same
> > access as a disabled person with their guide dog:
> > http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title16/ar32/ch3.html
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Michael Hingson
> > <info at michaelhingson.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> If the law includes dogs in training then the hotel is indeed wrong.
> >> I will look into the wording on the law.  Including dogs in training
> >> is by no means universal within state laws.
> >>
> >> South West Airlines will not permit pets or dogs in training on its
> >> flights even for a fee.  Although puppy raisers are angry over the
> >> South West policy the airline is not required to permit these animals
> >> on flights especially since it contends that transporting several
> >> animals in addition to those permitted today might cause undue delay
> >> in boarding.  SW contends that it has such a quick turn around that it
> >> has had to adopt the existing policy.
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael Hingson,
> >>  NSA
> >> President,
> >> The Michael Hingson Group
> >> 84 Bahama Reef
> >> Novato, CA 94949
> >> Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
> >> Fax number (415) 883-6220
> >> Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
> >> Email
> >> info at michaelhingson.com
> >>  <
> >> mailto:
> >> info at michaelhingson.com>
> >> For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and
> >> his consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind
> >> persons please visit < http://www.michaelhingson.com> For information
> >> on Guide Dogs for the Blind please visit < http://www.guidedogs.com>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
> >> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:30 PM
> >> To: nagdu
> >> Subject: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
> >>
> >> Let me know if you are able to get his messaage.
> >>
> >> Service dog turned away from local hotel Emily Longnecker/Eyewitness
> >> News http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27368805/from/ET/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nagdu:
> >>
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelh
> >> ingson
> >> .com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40mic
> >> haelhingson.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nagdu:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ceotty%40gmail.
> >> com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson
> > .com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlcrane%40alltel.net
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:28 -0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAClzMlIk5BNEiyQIZUQSL03CgAAAEAAAAN7hZpPwrgRDgbtZxcJjPwQBAAAAAA==@michaelhingson.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi,
>
> I am not sure about the larger dog, but under the trend of today's 
> policies
> by mass transit agencies since the woman had a "note from her doctor" her
> Pomeranian  is allowed on the bus.  The dog is not an assistance animal
> under the specific definition of the ADA, but like with airlines there is 
> a
> move to permit these animals to ride on busses and to be allowed into 
> public
> housing.
>
> Let's not get into a long debate here on the philosophy.  We have 
> discussed
> it many times.  Suffice it to say that as it now stands the little dog was
> legally allowed on the bus.
>
>
> Michael Hingson,
>  NSA
> President,
> The Michael Hingson Group
> 84 Bahama Reef
> Novato, CA 94949
> Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
> Fax number (415) 883-6220
> Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
> Email
> info at michaelhingson.com
>  <
> mailto:
> info at michaelhingson.com>
> For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and his
> consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind persons
> please
> visit <
> http://www.michaelhingson.com>
> For information on Guide Dogs for the Blind please visit <
> http://www.guidedogs.com>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sam
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:38 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users;
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> Personally, I'm wondering why either one of them were on the bus?
>
> Sam
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Claude Everett" <ceverett at dslextreme.com
> >To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >Date sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:31:22 -0700
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >Just by reading the article the dog killed was a companion dog
> not a real
> >service dog.  And***  what reason  was the Rot wilder  on the bus
> for? was it
> >a service animal?
> >Regards,
> >Claude Everett
> >American by chance, Californian by choice.
> >Everyone has a disability, some are more aware of it than others.
> >"If we have learned one thing from the civil rights movement in
> the united
> >states, it is that when you let others speak for you, you lose."
> >Ed Roberts
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >Of Jennie Facer
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:07 AM
> >To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >That is really sad!
>
> >Jenn
>
> >TO THE WORLD YOU ARE SOMEONE, BUT TO SOMEONE YOU ARE THE WORLD!
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >Of Ginger Kutsch
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:23 AM
> >To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> >Subject: [nagdu] Service dog killed on Portland bus
>
> >Service dog killed on Portland bus
> >10/28/2008,
> >The Associated Press
> >http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-27/12251
> 82546240560
> >..xml&storylist=orlocal
> >PORTLAND, Ore.  (AP) - TriMet, which increased security following
> a series of
> >high-profile assaults involving humans, is now faced with a
> brutal case of
> >dog-on-dog violence.
>
> >The attack happened late Sunday afternoon when Leroy Morley and
> his 50-pound
> >Rottweiler mix were walking toward the front of the bus to exit
> in North
> >Portland, said Peggy LaPoint, a spokeswoman for the mass transit
> agency.
>
> >Marie Kelemen, the owner of the victim, said the bigger dog
> neither growled
> >nor barked before breaking the neck of Buddy, the 7-pound
> Pomeranian that
> >bled to death in her lap.
>
>
> >Transit police responded to the scene.  Morley was allowed to
> leave, but has
> >been barred from riding TriMet buses and trains for 30 days.
>
> >Kelemen, 59, of Portland said the penalty is not severe enough.
> "It was
> >horrible," she told The Oregonian newspaper.  "It was terrible.
> That's why 30
> >days is ludicrous."
>
> >The Pomeranian was a service dog and therefore authorized to ride
> the bus.
> >The larger dog was not.
>
> >The case has been referred to Multnomah County Animal Services,
> spokesman
> >John Rowton said.  "But we haven't seen the report, and we're
> waiting for a
> >copy of the video from the bus' surveillance camera."
>
> >TriMet's Web site states that service dogs are allowed to ride
> buses and
> >trains but must be kept on a leash or in a carrier.  The
> definition of a
> >service dog is broad.  According to the Americans with
> Disabilities Act, a
> >service animal can be "any guide dog, signal dog or other animal
> >individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with
> a
> >disability."
>
> >Kelemen said she has a doctor's note that authorized Buddy to be
> her
> >companion dog.  "He was such a nice little guy," she said.  "It's
> awfully
> >quiet without him."
>
> >___
>
> >Information from: The Oregonian, http://www.oregonlive.com
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/puppya%40c
> learwire.ne
> >t
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ceverett%4
> 0dslextreme
> >..com
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >nagdu mailing list
> >nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nagdu:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sam%40tcq.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal.
> net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:52:19 -0400
> From: "MS S TILLETT" <suetillett at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport
> -
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <001001c9393f$11ceacd0$2e01a8c0 at diva>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> That is so totally obnocious.  Why should they be any different from any 
> other airport?  You shouldn't have to call for them to be ready for you. 
> They need to be ready for us every day!  That's like the lawyer from 
> Lalo's Cafe saying that I should call the next time I am in New York so 
> they could be ready for me.  That's ridiculous.
>
> Sue, and Wonder
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Ginger Kutsch
>   To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:09 AM
>   Subject: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
>
>   Assistance Dogs Now Welcome At Birmingham Airport
>   Monday 27th October 2008
>   http://www.compare-airport-parking.co.uk/news/1244/Assistance-Dogs-No
>
>   w-Welcome-At-Birmingham-Airport.html
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   Birmingham Airport passengers that suffer from visual impairments will
>
>   now be able to travel through the airport with greater ease after it was
>
>   announced that assistance dogs are welcome.
>
>   The new rules are set to benefit those passengers with sight problems as
>
>   they will be able to travel through the whole airport with the 
> assistance of
>
>   their dog. The One Complete Solution (OCS) group that are already
>
>   responsible for caring for passengers with mobility problems at the 
> airport
>
>   will take charge of the new process.
>
>   The reasons behind the new rules are due to a recent piece of EU
>
>   legislation that now permits guide dogs to be allowed on flights on a
>
>   number of routes. This new rule is set to greatly enhance the experience 
> of
>
>   passing through the airport for those passengers with sight problems.
>
>   When passenger with a guide dog arrive at the airport the vacination
>
>   history of the canine will be checked and additional assistance will be
>
>   provided for guide dogs and thir owners who will be met and taken
>
>   through the airport terminal upon arrival by a member of staff.
>
>   Speaking about the new regulations was John Morris, Head of Corporate
>
>   Affairs who said;
>
>   "Being able to welcome assistance dogs here will make it even easier for
>
>   those with visual impairments to use the Midlands' premier airport. The
>
>   Airport team has worked with a number of partners to make this project a
>
>   success and we look forward to welcoming many more assistance dogs
>
>   through Birmingham in the coming months."
>
>   The airport does request that those passengers who are to be travelling
>
>   with a guide or assistance dog contact the airline or tour operator 
> before
>
>   they travel to ensure the correct procedures are in place to deal with 
> their
>
>   visit.
>
>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   Published by: Jon Vickery
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nagdu mailing list
>   nagdu at nfbnet.org
>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/suetillett%40verizon.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:02:37 -0600
> From: "Jennie Facer" <puppya at clearwire.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <00b901c93948$e507ec20$af17c460$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks Angie.  I really enjoyed that.  You are right, it did make the 
> point
> very well.
>
> Jenn
>
> TO THE WORLD YOU ARE SOMEONE, BUT TO SOMEONE YOU ARE THE WORLD!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Angie Matney
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:42 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A Question of Philosophy
>
> Here's an excerpt from Love in the Lead that makes the point:
>
>           Before he left Vevey, two experiences  completed his conversion 
> to
> a religious faith in Buddy.  The first appeared on a sunken road leading 
> up
> from the funicular to Fortunate Fields.  Ahead of him he heard galloping
> hoofs and clattering wheels
> bearing down at a breakneck speed.  For just an instant, Buddy paused, 
> then
> wheeled right and pulled him off the road up a steep embankment.  The
> harness handle seemed to be rising nearly over his head, but he hung on
> tight and stumbled up
> after her.  He reached the top only moments before a pair of runaway 
> horses
> dragging a heavy peasant cart thundered by.  Jack Humphrey, who saw it 
> all,
> was too far behind to come to the rescue.  Buddy had done it all on her 
> own.
>           The second experience was far less dramatic, even prosaic. 
> Morris
> was sitting in the drawing room before lunch listening to Mrs. Eustis
> playing one of the grand pianos.
>           "I need a haircut," he mused, fingering the hair above his ears.
> "Do you think Mr. Eustis could take me down to the barber shop this
> afternoon?"
>           The piano paused.  "You have Buddy, Morris," Mrs. Eustis
> suggested.  'Why don't you go with her?"
>           Why didn't he go with her?  The thought was staggering.  It was 
> a
> long moment before he could take it in.  He could go with Buddy.  He 
> didn't
> have to depend on a human guide, wait until it suited his convenience and
> feel obligated for the
> favor afterwards.  He could go with Buddy, who would ask no thanks beyond
> the "Atta good girls" that were becoming second nature and who would feel
> proud and happy at the opportunity to work.
>           After lunch, Morris harnessed Buddy and headed for the 
> funicular.
> In Vevey they threaded their way to the barber shop and returned.  The 
> trip
> had none of the thrill of a narrow escape from runaway horses, but its
> meaning was far more
> exciting to Morris.  A runaway team comes once in a lifetime.  Haircuts 
> come
> every few weeks.  Nothing could be more ordinary.  That is the reason why 
> it
> is so hard to get a human guide to take a blind man for a haircut.  Family
> and friends will be
> generous on important occasions.  It is the ordinary prosaic little 
> chores,
> the trips to the barber shop or post office, the purchase of shoelaces or
> tooth paste that can be most frustrating by reason of their very 
> simplicity.
>           Late that afternoon, sitting alone  on the terrace overlooking 
> the
> lake, Morris began to laugh.  He couldn't stop.  The more he tried, the
> harder he laughed.  Mrs. Eustis overheard him and came out to find him
> alone, laughing as she had never
> heard him laugh before.
>           "What in the world is the matter?"
>           It took Morris a moment to control himself.  Then he explained.
> "At home in Nashville getting my hair cut was a major event.  Some days
> Father would drop me off at the barber shop on his way to work and leave 
> me
> there until he could pick
> me up on his way home to lunch.  Today Buddy took me to get my hair cut.
> For the first time in four years, I'm free.  That's why I'm laughing.
> Because I'm free, by God.  I'm free!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/puppya%40clearwire.ne
> t
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:26:09 -0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport
> -
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAClzMlIk5BNEiyQIZUQSL03CgAAAEAAAALmh5EK3o/tHlLWZsO6PK8oBAAAAAA==@michaelhingson.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi,
>
> Although we may not agree with the policy we are here dealing with a
> different country.  The fact is that there are entrance and importation
> procedures which we ALL must follow when going into England.
>
> I regard this as a positive move since now another airport is open to us 
> in
> that country.  While we may not like the process please remember that
> England has no rabies and they want to keep it that way.
>
>
> Michael Hingson,
>  NSA
> President,
> The Michael Hingson Group
> 84 Bahama Reef
> Novato, CA 94949
> Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
> Fax number (415) 883-6220
> Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
> Email
> info at michaelhingson.com
>  <
> mailto:
> info at michaelhingson.com>
> For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and his
> consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind persons
> please
> visit <
> http://www.michaelhingson.com>
> For information on Guide Dogs for the Blind please visit <
> http://www.guidedogs.com>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of MS S TILLETT
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
> That is so totally obnocious.  Why should they be any different from any
> other airport?  You shouldn't have to call for them to be ready for you.
> They need to be ready for us every day!  That's like the lawyer from 
> Lalo's
> Cafe saying that I should call the next time I am in New York so they 
> could
> be ready for me.  That's ridiculous.
>
> Sue, and Wonder
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ginger Kutsch
>   To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:09 AM
>   Subject: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
>
>   Assistance Dogs Now Welcome At Birmingham Airport
>   Monday 27th October 2008
>   http://www.compare-airport-parking.co.uk/news/1244/Assistance-Dogs-No
>
>   w-Welcome-At-Birmingham-Airport.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>   Birmingham Airport passengers that suffer from visual impairments will
>
>   now be able to travel through the airport with greater ease after it was
>
>   announced that assistance dogs are welcome.
>
>   The new rules are set to benefit those passengers with sight problems as
>
>   they will be able to travel through the whole airport with the 
> assistance
> of
>
>   their dog. The One Complete Solution (OCS) group that are already
>
>   responsible for caring for passengers with mobility problems at the
> airport
>
>   will take charge of the new process.
>
>   The reasons behind the new rules are due to a recent piece of EU
>
>   legislation that now permits guide dogs to be allowed on flights on a
>
>   number of routes. This new rule is set to greatly enhance the experience
> of
>
>   passing through the airport for those passengers with sight problems.
>
>   When passenger with a guide dog arrive at the airport the vacination
>
>   history of the canine will be checked and additional assistance will be
>
>   provided for guide dogs and thir owners who will be met and taken
>
>   through the airport terminal upon arrival by a member of staff.
>
>   Speaking about the new regulations was John Morris, Head of Corporate
>
>   Affairs who said;
>
>   "Being able to welcome assistance dogs here will make it even easier for
>
>   those with visual impairments to use the Midlands' premier airport. The
>
>   Airport team has worked with a number of partners to make this project a
>
>   success and we look forward to welcoming many more assistance dogs
>
>   through Birmingham in the coming months."
>
>   The airport does request that those passengers who are to be travelling
>
>   with a guide or assistance dog contact the airline or tour operator 
> before
>
>
>   they travel to ensure the correct procedures are in place to deal with
> their
>
>   visit.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>   Published by: Jon Vickery
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nagdu mailing list
>   nagdu at nfbnet.org
>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/suetillett%40verizon.
> net
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson
> .com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:33:35 -0700
> From: "Mardi Hadfield" <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service dog killed on a bus
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Message-ID:
> <9023d1d70810281833p718074b0wdcd7f6a86d387f2d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi every one,  I can not believe that the authorities let the owner of the
> dog that killed the other small dog,get away with just not riding the bus 
> or
> train for 30 days. This dog killed! It could have been a small child and
> next time it might be. Once a dog has killed another animal ,they can 
> never
> be trusted not to do it again. I have had experience with this as at one
> time in my life I was an animal control officer. I delt with dogs that had
> killed other animals, and the law in Connecticut at that time was that a
> killer dog had to be euthanized.  Several of my guide dogs have been
> attacked and one injured very badly. I do fear that some time it could
> happen again. The animal control here in Tucson ,has never done any thing
> about the attacks on my dogs. I have ridden on the bus with dogs that were
> being passed off as service dogs ,and were not even on a leash. I have 
> also
> had other service dogs growl at my dog.  I had a guide dog from GDB attack
> my dog at a bus stop and the owner told the bus driver ,that my dog 
> started
> it ,which was not true,but I was refused the ride on the bus. This was
> before I was legally blind, but my dog was a service dog. I could see this
> man crossing the street with a guide dog pulling him and he could not
> controll his dog. It was heading right for my dog ,so I pulled my dog up
> into my lap(Iwas sitting in a wheelchair) and the guide dog leaped on my 
> dog
> as the bus pulled up and stopped. The man pulled his dog off mine and
> proceded to board the bus. The driver put the lift down for me and I got 
> on
> the lift with my dog and then the driver refused to bring the lift up so I
> could get on the bus. I was informed that vicious dogs were not alloud to
> ride the bus.Needless to say, I was angry , but every one took the side of
> the owner of the guide dog. I had several other encounters with this same
> dog and owner.I even called GDB and complained about this man and his dog
> and was told there was nothing they could do. So much for that. It has 
> been
> about 6 or 7 years since I have even seen this dog, so I hope I never
> encounter them again. I have always made sure that my dogs have been 
> trained
> to not ever growl or show any agression towards any other dog or person 
> and
> they never have. It is too bad that some others don't take the time to do
> this . If I could not controll my dog, or my dog acted up in public, I 
> would
> not take it out in public  again untill the problem was solved. I have 
> been
> complimented many times on my dogs being so well behaved. and how well 
> they
> do their job. I take pride in my dogs and feel that because they are 
> service
> dogs, that they must be held to a certain standard, that a pet dog is not
> held to. I would hope that other people with service dogs  would do the 
> same
> ,but I guess this is not always the case. My dog is with me to do a 
> job,not
> to keep me company! I some times wonder about some of these service dogs
> that I encounter. Food for thought............Mardi,and Nala,retired,
> Wanagi,gdit and Tokala, gdit.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:21:02 -0600
> From: "melissa R. Green" <graduate56 at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local
> hotel
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <012e01c9398e$84e550d0$8eaff270$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I happen to agree with you Julie.
> There is a woman on campus here that uses two huskys as her service dogs. 
> One
> is in front of her and the other is always behind her.  She says that they 
> help
> her with her paranoia.
> However, with that said, I also agree that education is needed.  I think 
> that
> the hard thing is that there isn't a real definition of a service animal. 
> Then
> there are those that abuse the law in some way or another.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Melissa R. Green
> If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands. ?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
> Of
> Julie J.
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:47 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
>
> I think it also depends on your interpretation of the service dog in
> training laws.  Personally, I don't think the law is meant to be 
> interpreted
> that the dog in training can go anywhere, anytime as long as the trainer
> accompanies the dog.  My personal belief is that there needs to be some
> training going on.    I don't know what sort of training would be taking
> place in a hotel after the first bit.  Really would it take days and days 
> to
> teach the dog about hotel etiquette?  I think that too often the service 
> dog
> in training laws are used for the convenience factor and not the training
> factor.
>
> JMHO
> Julie
>
>
> > http://www.guidedogs.com>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> > Behalf
> > Of Cyndy Otty
> > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:58 PM
> > To: NAGDU
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
> >
> > Indiana law (*IC 16-32-3-2*) does state that trainers are granted the 
> > same
> > access as a disabled person with their guide dog:
> > http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title16/ar32/ch3.html
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Michael Hingson
> > <info at michaelhingson.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> If the law includes dogs in training then the hotel is indeed wrong.
> >> I will look into the wording on the law.  Including dogs in training
> >> is by no means universal within state laws.
> >>
> >> South West Airlines will not permit pets or dogs in training on its
> >> flights even for a fee.  Although puppy raisers are angry over the
> >> South West policy the airline is not required to permit these animals
> >> on flights especially since it contends that transporting several
> >> animals in addition to those permitted today might cause undue delay
> >> in boarding.  SW contends that it has such a quick turn around that it
> >> has had to adopt the existing policy.
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael Hingson,
> >>  NSA
> >> President,
> >> The Michael Hingson Group
> >> 84 Bahama Reef
> >> Novato, CA 94949
> >> Phone Direct number (415) 827-4084
> >> Fax number (415) 883-6220
> >> Mobile/Pager (888) 965-9191
> >> Email
> >> info at michaelhingson.com
> >>  <
> >> mailto:
> >> info at michaelhingson.com>
> >> For information on Michael's speaking topics, his availability, and
> >> his consulting services on Diversity and Access Technology for blind
> >> persons please visit < http://www.michaelhingson.com> For information
> >> on Guide Dogs for the Blind please visit < http://www.guidedogs.com>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
> >> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:30 PM
> >> To: nagdu
> >> Subject: [nagdu] msnbc.com: Service dog turned away from local hotel
> >>
> >> Let me know if you are able to get his messaage.
> >>
> >> Service dog turned away from local hotel Emily Longnecker/Eyewitness
> >> News http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27368805/from/ET/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nagdu:
> >>
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelh
> >> ingson
> >> .com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40mic
> >> haelhingson.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nagdu mailing list
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nagdu:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ceotty%40gmail.
> >> com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson
> > .com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlcrane%40alltel.net
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
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>
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> ____________________________________________________________
> Click for information on obtaining a VA loan.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m3mWzL2cA6f59VwNh7EOR9yr1tjwvLkKZx8yC9W4ZV07P2P/
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:29:46 -0400
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerkutsch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [nagdu] Service animals take their spot on Portland buses
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <002d01c939b1$46635780$3537a8c0 at tse.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Service animals take their spot on Portland buses
> 10/29/2008, 1:02 a.m. PDTThe Associated Press
> http://www.oregonlive.com:80/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/sports-6/
>
> 1225267742210400.xml&storylist=orlocal
> PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - The term "service animal" tends to conjure an
>
> image of a guide dog that assists the blind.
>
> But the definition is much broader, according to TriMet, the Portland area
>
> mass transit agency that sees all types of animals on its buses and 
> trains.
>
> Spokeswoman Peggy LaPoint says "all animals" can be service animals.
>
> "It could be a goat, not that we've ever seen a goat," she said. "But 
> there
>
> have been rabbits. There have been cats. There have been, I imagine,
>
> rodents."
>
> On Sunday, the animals were a 50-pound Rottweiler mix named Max and a
>
> 7-pound Pomeranian named Buddy. As he and his owner were making
>
> their way off the bus, Max attacked and killed Buddy, leaving the little 
> dog
>
> to bleed to death on his owner's lap.
>
> Max was on a leash. That would have been fine for a service dog, which is
>
> how the owner described Max to the driver when boarding. But it's not
>
> OK for a pet, which is what Max is, owner Leroy Morley confessed when
>
> later confronted by transit police.
>
> Police cited Morley for bringing a nonservice dog on the bus, and banned
>
> him from riding TriMet buses and trains for 30 days.
>
> The Americans With Disabilities Act says any "animal individually trained
>
> to provide assistance to an individual with a disability" is a service 
> animal.
>
> All drivers do is ask boarding riders if their leashed companions are
>
> service animals. If the riders say yes, it's not TriMet's place to deem 
> the
>
> animal unserviceable, LaPoint said.
>
> Though the Rottweiler was not really a service dog, the woman who owned
>
> the Pomeranian had a doctor's note saying her dog did provide a service -
>
> mostly social interaction. Buddy's 59-year-old owner has hip and back
>
> problems, and the doctor wrote that a companion would help.
>
> Whether dogs that offer love and comfort are true service animals "is a 
> big
>
> debate, even in the community of people who are blind or disabled," said
>
> Joanne Ritter, spokeswoman for Guide Dogs for the Blind, which has
>
> campuses in California and Oregon.
>
> Some say only training makes a service animal. Animals, however, can help
>
> some socially isolated or mentally troubled people function better.
>
> TriMet keeps no statistics on animal ridership. But Kae Seth, the 
> president
>
> of Guide Dog Users of Oregon, says she increasingly encounters "people
>
> who try to stretch the letter of the law" to get their pets into buses and
>
> businesses. Some disabled people worry there will be a backlash against 
> all
>
> animals if too many people start stretching the rules.
>
> ___
>
> Information from: The Oregonian, http://www.oregonlive.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 06:36:46 -0400
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerkutsch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [nagdu] The definition of service animals grows
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <003b01c939b2$3e9abce0$3537a8c0 at tse.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The definition of service animals grows to include animals that provide 
> companionship to their owners
> by Andy Dworkin, The Oregonian
> Tuesday October 28, 2008, 7:48 PM
> http://www.oregonlive.com:80/news/index.ssf/2008/10/the_definition_of_service_anim.html
>
> Kae Seth wasn't surprised to read that bus passenger Leroy Morley passed 
> off his pet Rottweiler mix, Max, as a service dog. The president of Guide 
> Dog Users of Oregon says she increasingly encounters "people who try to 
> stretch the letter of the law" to get their pets into buses and 
> businesses.
>
> Peggy LaPoint wasn't surprised to hear that Marie Kelemen's service dog, 
> Buddy, was a powder puff of a Pomeranian. The TriMet spokeswoman has heard 
> of "service animals" ranging from big dogs to bunnies on Portland's trains 
> and buses.
>
> "All animals" can be service animals, LaPoint said. "It could be a goat, 
> not that we've ever seen a goat. But there have been rabbits. There have 
> been cats. There have been, I imagine, rodents."
>
> And it's no surprise Max and Buddy tangled on the No. 75 bus Sunday. Guide 
> dog owners are used to other dogs sniffing, barking, nipping and otherwise 
> engaging their animals. "Dogs are dogs," said Joanne Ritter, spokeswoman 
> for Guide Dogs for the Blind, which has campuses in California and Oregon.
>
> The only shocking thing about the canine encounter was its brutal finish: 
> One quick bite as Max exited the bus left Buddy bleeding to death on 
> Kelemen's lap.
>
> Max was on a leash when he bit Buddy. That would have been fine for a 
> service dog, which is what Morley told the bus driver Max was, but not for 
> a pet like Max.
>
> "All animals need to be in a carrier, except (service) cats, rabbits, dogs 
> and monkeys," LaPoint said. "They need to be on a leash."
>
> But it's not the job of TriMet workers to decide which animals should be 
> contained, LaPoint said. The Americans With Disabilities Act says any 
> "animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a 
> disability" is a service animal. All drivers do is ask boarding riders if 
> their leashed companions are service animals, LaPoint said. If the riders 
> say yes, it's not TriMet's place to deem the animal unserviceable.
>
> What about little Buddy? What service can a 7-pound Pomeranian provide? 
> Kelemen has hip and back problems. But Buddy mainly offered social 
> interaction. A doctor wrote a note on a prescription pad saying a 
> companion would help the 59-year-old.
>
> Whether dogs that mostly love and comfort are true service animals "is a 
> big debate, even in the community of people who are blind or disabled," 
> Ritter said. Some say companionship is the essence of a pet, but only 
> training makes a service animal. Still, animals can help some socially 
> isolated or mentally troubled people function better.
>
> TriMet keeps no data on animal ridership. But Seth thinks it's 
> increasingly common for dogs whose main purpose is companionship -- not 
> guiding the blind or opening doors -- to be taken into businesses as 
> service animals.
>
> People who spent decades fighting for access for dogs helping the blind 
> and disabled sometimes worry that folks stretching the law will cause a 
> backlash. But a bigger problem for the blind and disabled is interference 
> from other dogs, either companion animals or pets. What seems like a 
> friendly sniffing session can make a blind person miss a meeting or bus, 
> Ritter said.
>
> "You've just stopped me in my tracks," she said, "and I can't move forward 
> until your dog moves out of the way."
>
>
> -- Andy Dworkin; andydworkin at news.oregonian.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:18:45 -0400
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M." <Rebecca.Pickrell at ngc.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport
> -
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <52B67E1F32707847B44B4B7B1238E36315410336 at xmbv3801>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I think this is more of a British thing.
> It isn't right, mind you, just seems to be the way things are done over
> there.
> When I was in Great Britain for a youth exchange, I found the general
> attitude to be very paternalistic.
> I loved being over there, I learned a whole heck of a lot, though I did
> find the attitude of people in the transportation industry as well as in
> other areas to be very paternalistic.
> Any Brits want to weigh in on this one?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of MS S TILLETT
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
> That is so totally obnocious.  Why should they be any different from any
> other airport?  You shouldn't have to call for them to be ready for you.
> They need to be ready for us every day!  That's like the lawyer from
> Lalo's Cafe saying that I should call the next time I am in New York so
> they could be ready for me.  That's ridiculous.
>
> Sue, and Wonder
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ginger Kutsch
>   To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:09 AM
>   Subject: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
>
>   Assistance Dogs Now Welcome At Birmingham Airport
>   Monday 27th October 2008
>   http://www.compare-airport-parking.co.uk/news/1244/Assistance-Dogs-No
>
>   w-Welcome-At-Birmingham-Airport.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>   Birmingham Airport passengers that suffer from visual impairments will
>
>
>   now be able to travel through the airport with greater ease after it
> was
>
>   announced that assistance dogs are welcome.
>
>   The new rules are set to benefit those passengers with sight problems
> as
>
>   they will be able to travel through the whole airport with the
> assistance of
>
>   their dog. The One Complete Solution (OCS) group that are already
>
>   responsible for caring for passengers with mobility problems at the
> airport
>
>   will take charge of the new process.
>
>   The reasons behind the new rules are due to a recent piece of EU
>
>   legislation that now permits guide dogs to be allowed on flights on a
>
>   number of routes. This new rule is set to greatly enhance the
> experience of
>
>   passing through the airport for those passengers with sight problems.
>
>   When passenger with a guide dog arrive at the airport the vacination
>
>   history of the canine will be checked and additional assistance will
> be
>
>   provided for guide dogs and thir owners who will be met and taken
>
>   through the airport terminal upon arrival by a member of staff.
>
>   Speaking about the new regulations was John Morris, Head of Corporate
>
>   Affairs who said;
>
>   "Being able to welcome assistance dogs here will make it even easier
> for
>
>   those with visual impairments to use the Midlands' premier airport.
> The
>
>   Airport team has worked with a number of partners to make this project
> a
>
>   success and we look forward to welcoming many more assistance dogs
>
>   through Birmingham in the coming months."
>
>   The airport does request that those passengers who are to be
> travelling
>
>   with a guide or assistance dog contact the airline or tour operator
> before
>
>   they travel to ensure the correct procedures are in place to deal with
> their
>
>   visit.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
>   Published by: Jon Vickery
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nagdu mailing list
>   nagdu at nfbnet.org
>   http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/suetillett%40veri
> zon.net
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%
> 40ngc.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:02:16 -0400
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M." <Rebecca.Pickrell at ngc.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport
> -
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <52B67E1F32707847B44B4B7B1238E36315410340 at xmbv3801>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The United Kingdom.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:35 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
> What country is this airport in?
>
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerkutsch at yahoo.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:09 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Assistance dogs now welcome at Birmingham airport -
>
>
> > Assistance Dogs Now Welcome At Birmingham Airport
> > Monday 27th October 2008
> > http://www.compare-airport-parking.co.uk/news/1244/Assistance-Dogs-No
> >
> > w-Welcome-At-Birmingham-Airport.html
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> >
> > Birmingham Airport passengers that suffer from visual impairments will
> >
> > now be able to travel through the airport with greater ease after it
> was
> >
> > announced that assistance dogs are welcome.
> >
> > The new rules are set to benefit those passengers with sight problems
> as
> >
> > they will be able to travel through the whole airport with the
> assistance
> > of
> >
> > their dog. The One Complete Solution (OCS) group that are already
> >
> > responsible for caring for passengers with mobility problems at the
> > airport
> >
> > will take charge of the new process.
> >
> > The reasons behind the new rules are due to a recent piece of EU
> >
> > legislation that now permits guide dogs to be allowed on flights on a
> >
> > number of routes. This new rule is set to greatly enhance the
> experience
> > of
> >
> > passing through the airport for those passengers with sight problems.
> >
> > When passenger with a guide dog arrive at the airport the vacination
> >
> > history of the canine will be checked and additional assistance will
> be
> >
> > provided for guide dogs and thir owners who will be met and taken
> >
> > through the airport terminal upon arrival by a member of staff.
> >
> > Speaking about the new regulations was John Morris, Head of Corporate
> >
> > Affairs who said;
> >
> > "Being able to welcome assistance dogs here will make it even easier
> for
> >
> > those with visual impairments to use the Midlands' premier airport.
> The
> >
> > Airport team has worked with a number of partners to make this project
> a
> >
> > success and we look forward to welcoming many more assistance dogs
> >
> > through Birmingham in the coming months."
> >
> > The airport does request that those passengers who are to be
> travelling
> >
> > with a guide or assistance dog contact the airline or tour operator
> before
> >
> > they travel to ensure the correct procedures are in place to deal with
>
> > their
> >
> > visit.
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> >
> > Published by: Jon Vickery
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nagdu:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jlcrane%40alltel.
> net
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> End of nagdu Digest, Vol 43, Issue 28
> *************************************
>