[nagdu] guiding eyes application question

Mon Apr 20 16:58:06 UTC 2009

Ron,
    You certainly seem to have misunderstood my message. Many of us have 
"been around the block a few times", including you! I didn't mean this to be 
a personal attack on you. The advantage that we - the organized blind - has 
is our ability to call upon specific areas of expertise. Though most of us 
on this list have been around quite a few blocks, chances are they have not 
been around mine, yours, or the next person's! Each of us brings a different 
perspective when we share the experiences we have had going around the 
blocks we have gone around. Sometimes we hear of new problems and how they 
have been solved. Often, though, we hear of old problems that show 
themselves with different faces but the same behavior. When we can put our 
collective energy together to solve the problems for individuals, we solve 
the problem for everyone! When we use our collective power as consumers, we 
have the ability to change society fundamentally.
    The issue of ownership is an important testimony to a school's 
perspective on the capacity of blind people. The rationale used by schools 
that do not provide ownership immediately upon graduation is definitely 
flawed by paternalistic, custodial beliefs. They say, in part, "We do not 
believe the blind, in general, have the ability to care for this animal." 
The acceptance of this belief is justified by pointing to some very rare 
instances in which a blind person abused their dogs. This justification is a 
"Some"All" fallacy: Some blind people have abused their guide dogs; all 
blind people abuse their dogs! Based upon this fallacy, guide dog schools 
take on a paternal role of telling us what is "good for us" and how this 
custodial policy makes sense! They hold power over us because they hold the 
ownership of that which helps us maintain independence. If they own it, they 
can take it away! If they take it away, they will take away my independence.
    Now, you work with chain saws, I believe, sculpting what must be huge 
works of art! have you ever had anyone tell you you are at higher risk for 
injury from those saws, knives, and other sharp instruments you use because 
you are blind? You might cut your finger off with one of them because, for 
God's sake, you are blind and might forget where your fingers are located! 
You would think their concerns to be idiotic, given the fact that everyone - 
even the sighted - have cut their fingers with a saw or a knife! Are the 
blind at higher risk of cutting their fingers off than the sighted? After 
all, the "Some-All" fallacy would illogically say: Some blind people have 
cut their fingers off using a knife or saw; all blind people will cut their 
fingers off if they use a knife or a saw!
    One school contends that their new regressive ownership policy is the 
"way most schools are going"! That's not true, at all! The same school says 
they have implemented this policy to protect against those deranged blind 
people who might fly into a drunken rage  and kill their dog, citing the one 
case in which this happened!
    Now, to be very clear about other information in this post! Guiding Eyes 
is not the only school that does not transfer ownership upon graduation, so 
my issue is not only with them, but all who maintain such a paternalistic 
policy. Nor is The Seeing Eye the only school that demonstrates its belief 
in the capacity of the blind to manage the care of their dogs without 
interference - although they have done so since their inception as the first 
guide dog training school in the world! yes, The Seeing Eye is a great 
school, even though my dog is not from TSE, but yet another school that 
grants ownership upon graduation!
    As I have already said, I have heard some pretty good arguments to 
justify probationary periods and the retention of ownership; however, I have 
not heard any that were not soundly refutable! If you would like to present 
one or more and discuss these, this list is an excellent forum. If you 
expect us to not refute them, this is not the appropriate forum! (smile)
    These things being said, I am concerned that you believe I do not allow 
discussion of issues and comments that are contradictory to mine. I have 
often heard it said that this is the reputation of the national Federation 
of the blind: That we are not allowed to argue with the dictates of our 
leaders. Those who believe that line have never been to an NFB meeting! 
(smile)
    On the contrary, I welcome discussion of the topics in a non-threatening 
environment! If anyone believes differently, they have not participated in 
any of our meetings! You have, so I'm not sure where that comes from!
    At the same time, if you believe that constructive criticism and the 
free exchange you claim I stifle makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should 
stick around and see where all of this brings you. I will say categorically 
that the NFB philosophy has greatly enhanced my life, although I was 
uncomfortable with it for nearly ten years. I will also say that my 
attitudes and beliefs result in discussions with well-informed, intelligent 
people about our philosophy from every direction. Those who know me well 
know the fervor in which I will argue my point and the openness to consider 
one that challenges my perspective! many on this list have contradicted me 
very well! (smile) Thank you!
    If you decide to stick around, we will love to continue our discussion. 
If you choose to leave, I would wish you God Speed and Best Wishes! If you 
would like to continue to grow with us, stick around for the ride! Sometimes 
it meanders, sometimes it's fast and furious, and at other times it is a 
roler coaster! But we are all riding together!

Fraternally,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Davidson" <fuzzy_1 at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guiding eyes application question


> Marion I am not new to all this and I don't understand why you think so 
> but this is my final and last post on this list. I came to the list to add 
> my two cents worth and learn what I could not to argue with you. It seems 
> like every time I post you have to come along and contradict or disagree 
> with what I say. I have never met an expert on everything until now. And I 
> am really tired of your remarks about GEB and it's ownership policy give 
> it a rest nobody is worried about it as much as you are. It is a shame you 
> are so insecure about the ownership policies of schools other than Seeing 
> Eye they have faults too.
>
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