[nagdu] Pet tags on the beach

Mon Aug 3 21:20:25 UTC 2009

not necessarily, New York didn't have tax exemption on dog food and other 
dog supplies for a service animal until about may be 10  years ago.
Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach


> Mike,
>    I would venture to bet a pint of beer that, if you looked into it, the
> State would have an exemption for any fees associated with your dog, i.e.,
> taxes on dog food, medication, and vet charges.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>
>
> Here in Marin County there is a license charge, even for service and
> assistance dogs.
>
> The Michael Hingson Group
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> www.michaelhingson.com
>
>
> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:09 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>
> Lora,
>    It is my understanding that, according to the ADA and most state access
> laws and tax codes, fees for licensing service animals may not be charged. 
> I
>
> am not an attorney, so cannot give you an authoritative response. This is
> the way it is in Hillsborough County, Florida. You may want to get in 
> touch
> with the DOJ at 800-514-0301 and get a more authoritative answer.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>
>
>> earlier in this thread someone said that licensing your service dog
>> shouldn't cost you. Is this the law or a courtacy? Anyone know the case 
>> in
>> Idaho? Lora and Trice
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini <
>> ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well said.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Ann Edie
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 4:08 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>>>
>>> Hi, Everyone,
>>>
>>> While I am among the first to assert our legitimate right as people with
>>> a
>>> disability to be accompanied by our service animals into places of 
>>> public
>>> accommodation, and while I agree that we have this right whether or not
>>> the
>>> animal is in harness and without being required to show identification 
>>> or
>>> certification for ourselves or our service animals, I must agree with
>>> Julie
>>> J. when she expressed that this right does not extend to allowing our
>>> service animals to play/swim at a public beach, without following the
>>> same
>>> requirements as apply to pet animals in that location.  The reason we
>>> have
>>> the right to be accompanied by our service animals in places of public
>>> accommodation is that the animal is acting as a service animal, enabling
>>> us
>>> to access such places and to enjoy them as do other members of the
>>> public.
>>> So, we are permitted to enter the beach with our service animals, 
>>> without
>>> the need to have the tags required of people who wish to take their pet
>>> animals onto the beach.  We can certainly use our service animals inside
>>> such a facility, being guided by our guide animals to the snack stand,
>>> showers or changing rooms, to the playground, or just for a walk along
>>> the
>>> beach.  And I suppose it could be argued that we could use our guide
>>> animals
>>> to guide us into the water and back to the beach and to our towel or
>>> blanket.  And certainly, we have the right to have our service animal 
>>> sit
>>> or
>>> lie on the beach, either next to us or alone while we are nearby or in
>>> the
>>> water (if the animal is "under control", such as on leash or on a
>>> "stay").
>>>
>>> But, to me it is quite a different thing for a person with a disability
>>> to
>>> take his/her service animal into a public place, such as a beach, under
>>> the
>>> provisions of the ADA, and then to use the facility for the animal's
>>> recreation, such as by allowing the animal to swim, on or off leash, or
>>> to
>>> sniff and dig in the sand, or chase sticks or a ball, or any other 
>>> "play"
>>> activity.  In this situation, the animal is not acting as a service
>>> animal,
>>> whether or not it is wearing a harness or other identifying equipment.
>>> It
>>> is behaving as a pet, and the handler is using the facility as he/she
>>> would
>>> use it for his/her pet animal.  I believe that this is not the intent of
>>> the
>>> ADA, with respect to service animals.  I think it is only right, in this
>>> situation, for the person with a disability, if he/she intends to use 
>>> the
>>> beach for the recreation of his/her animal rather than solely for 
>>> his/her
>>> own and his/her family's recreation, that he/she conform to the local
>>> rules
>>> and get the required tags.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that asserting the right to use the beach for the
>>> recreation/play of the service animal would be to step onto the
>>> proverbial
>>> "slippery slope."  For example, we have the right to be accompanied into
>>> the
>>> local swimming pool facility by our service animals.  We can take the
>>> animal
>>> into the pool area and the animal can be used as a guide in that area or
>>> can
>>> be left on stay at poolside.  But I do not believe that the facility
>>> management is required to permit us to take the animal into the pool 
>>> with
>>> us, nor to let the animal run around the pool barking and snapping at
>>> splashed water, or to otherwise play.
>>>
>>> Similarly, we have the right to be accompanied by our service animals
>>> into
>>> parks, camping and hiking areas, and wilderness areas.  But do we have
>>> the
>>> right to allow our service animals to run loose, sniffing and digging,
>>> relieving wherever they feel the need, and possibly damaging the
>>> protected
>>> plants or animals in the environment?
>>>
>>> And again, we have the right to take our service animals into 
>>> restaurants
>>> and hotels, but do we have the right to allow our service animals to sit
>>> at
>>> the table and eat food off the plates, or to chase a ball up and down 
>>> the
>>> hotel corridors or get up on the furniture in the hotel lobby or guest
>>> rooms?  I do not believe that this is the intent of the ADA.
>>>
>>> Perhaps more to the point is the following situation-- In my town, as in
>>> many other communities, there is a public dog park where residents can
>>> take
>>> their pet dogs to romp and socialize with other dogs.
>>> There is a local ordinance which states that in order to use the dog
>>> park,
>>> residents must go to the town office and present documentation of town
>>> residency in order to get a permit to use the dog park.
>>>
>>> Now, if I wish to enter the dog park with my service dog, or if I wish 
>>> to
>>> walk around inside the dog park using my service dog to do its job of
>>> guiding me around, I believe that I have the right to do this without
>>> obtaining a town permit, just as any other human being would be allowed
>>> to
>>> enter and enjoy the facility when not accompanied by a dog.  (This
>>> situation
>>> might occur, for example, if I am out for a walk with a friend who wants
>>> to
>>> allow his pet dog to play in the dog park while we are on our walk, and
>>> we
>>> stop in for a time, but my service animal remains at my side while my
>>> friend's dog is permitted to run free and play.)
>>>
>>> However, if I intend to allow my own service animal to play and enjoy 
>>> the
>>> facility as do the pet dogs, then I believe it is reasonable and
>>> perfectly
>>> acceptable that I be required to go to the town hall and present my
>>> documentation of residency and get my permit to use the dog park for the
>>> enjoyment/recreation of my dog, whether or not that dog comes into the
>>> facility in harness or wearing other identifying equipment.
>>>
>>> To me, it seems that the situation of obtaining tags in order to have
>>> one's
>>> dog use a public beach or a public dog park for recreational purposes, 
>>> is
>>> close to the requirement to obtain a dog licence for all dogs, even
>>> service
>>> dogs.  In the case of the licence, it is a way for the local government
>>> to
>>> ensure that all dogs are vaccinated.  And in the case of the dog park, 
>>> it
>>> is
>>> a way for the town to ensure that the facility which is supported by 
>>> town
>>> residents' taxes, is used only by those town residents.  I'm not sure
>>> what
>>> the purpose is of the tags for people who want to take their dogs onto
>>> the
>>> beach.  But I don't think we can claim exemption under the ADA, if we 
>>> are
>>> going to allow our service animals to enjoy the facility as pet dogs do,
>>> rather than solely to use them as our guides or to perform whatever 
>>> other
>>> disability-related tasks they have been trained to perform.
>>>
>>> Interesting discussion.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Ann
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 2:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>>>
>>>
>>> > Thanks Marion for the attached info. I'm sure it will come in handy.
>>> >
>>> > Sherri
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 5:48 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Wayne,
>>> >>    No need for any sort of tags. As you stated, a service animal is
>>> >> not
>>> a
>>> >> pet, so such rules do not apply. You do not need to have your dog in
>>> >> harness
>>> >> nor present any other sort of documentation proving it is a service
>>> >> animal
>>> >> to have access to the beach. The only thing you are required to gain
>>> such
>>> >> access is to advise them you are a person with a disability and the
>>> >> animal
>>> >> is a service animal. They may ask how the animal was trained and what
>>> >> task
>>> >> the animal was trained to perform, but you are not required to
>>> >> demonstrate
>>> >> its training. For your information, I have attached information from
>>> >> the
>>> >> U.S. Department of Justice, just in case you are questioned about it.
>>> >> also,
>>> >> keep my number with you should you need an advocate while in Florida.
>>> >> BTW,
>>> >> what part of Florida will you be visiting?
>>> >>
>>> >> Fraternally yours,
>>> >> Marion Gwizdala
>>> >> Tampa, Florida
>>> >> 813-626-2789
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Wayne Merritt" <wcmerritt at gmail.com>
>>> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:46 PM
>>> >> Subject: [nagdu] Pet tags on the beach
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Greetings. Sorry for the short notice. I talked with my parents
>>> >>> earlier who are already in Florida. I'm leaving tomorrow morning.
>>> >>> They
>>> >>> mentioned that pets need to get tags from a specific office in order
>>> >>> to go on the beach. I know that guide dogs arent' pets, but does
>>> >>> anyone know if I need to worry about this with my guide, or will the
>>> >>> harness be enough to convince any officials on the beach? We talked
>>> >>> about taking my dog with us to the beach perhaps tomorrow evening to
>>> >>> see how she reacts and then decide if we need to do anything with 
>>> >>> her
>>> >>> the rest of the week. However, since the "tag office" for lack of a
>>> >>> better phrase isn't open till Monday morning, if we do need tags 
>>> >>> then
>>> >>> we wouldn't be able to take her tomorrow. She has a microchip ID on
>>> >>> her collar that we got last fall when in training, and I've of 
>>> >>> course
>>> >>> got an ID card for her proving that she's a guide dog. Thoughts?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Wayne
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> My blog:
>>> >>> http://wayneism.blogspot.com
>>> >>> My websites:
>>> >>> www.wayneism.com
>>> >>> www.whitecaneday.org
>>> >>>
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>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Lora and Trice
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