[nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Sat Aug 29 21:54:17 UTC 2009

Sounds good. Will you be re-posting info about the call?

I'm glad you talked to President Maurer about special materials. I'm very
excited about the possibility of helping with this in some way.

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:34 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Angie,
    I agree that this thread has gone beyond the ACAA. BTW, I have contacted

Dr. maurer about the development of specialized materials, as we have 
discussed and will continue this discussion with him while I am in Baltimore

next week. I am also interested in creating other special materials, such as

those for restaurants, taxicabs, and health care facilities. Remember, we 
have a Board meeting Tomorrow and will be discussing this issue. I'll talk 
to you then!

Fraternally yours,
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

> Hi Marion,
>
> I don't remember off-hand, but this information was in the message I 
> posted
> a while back that contained several airline policies on service animals. 
> I'm
> sure it's in the archives somewhere.
>
> As I said in my other poast, I am not as familiar with the ACAA as I am 
> with
> the ADA. I would not be surprised to learn that the ACAA has a similar
> provision, but I don't know where it is. You are correct that state laws
> requiring a harness for access are unenforceable, but of course those laws
> are not applicable in this situation.
>
> In any case, as we all know, airline employees often invent their own
> version of service-animal law on the spot. While it is often possible to
> argue with them and to convince them that we know what we are talking 
> about,
> a quick-release handle might prevent some of these situations from
> developing. That was what I was trying to say. Even if a particular
> airline's policy on harnesses is legally unenforceable, it might be nice 
> to
> have more ways to avoid their attempts to enforce it.
>
> Angie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:09 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>
> Angie,
>    Do you know which airlines have such a policy? Although an airline may
> make such a policy, there is no such requirement in law. If I chose to
> travel with my dog out of harness using my white cane, the airline could 
> not
>
> deny me access. The harness does not make a service dog; its training 
> does.
> Some service animals do not wear harnesses and their owners still have the
> right of access with their dogs
>    Everyone needs to be aware that, even though the schools tell us
> otherwise, we are not required to have our dogs in harness in order to be
> afforded the right of access with them. There is nothing in the Federal 
> law
> requiring a service animal be harnessed. In spite of the fact that some
> state laws require this, such laws are unenforceable.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:31 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Quick-release handles: was Air Charters and the extra 
> seat
>
>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> This kind of experience is one reason I hope The Seeing Eye will consider
>> ways to provide us with quick-release handles. If we can simply remove 
>> the
>> harness handle, it will easily fit in the space between a window seat and
>> the inside wall of the plane. This will allow both the human and dog to
>> enjoy more room while they fly, while reducing the chances that a flight
>> attendant would seek to remove the harness from the dog's owner.
>>
>> Also, some airline policies state that the dog must remain in harness at
>> all
>> times. If we had a quick-release handle, we could comply with such
>> policies
>> while gaining a bit more leg/dog room.
>>
>> I don't know how you feel about quick-release handles, but if you agree
>> with
>> me, I hope you will consider relating this experience to someone at 
>> Seeing
>> Eye as a reason to consider quick-release handles.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Wayne Merritt
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:15 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Air Charters and the extra seat
>>
>> I think he's referring to a part of airline history in the eighties
>> where the airlines tried to take or in some cases took canes away from
>> blind people, claiming that they were dangerous and could fly up and
>> hit someone if something were to happen to the plane. Though I missed
>> this part of airline history in my travels, I've still been asked a
>> few times by flight attendants to give up my cane. I even explained to
>> one persont that the cane was securely between my window seat and the
>> inside wall of the plane; in other words, it wasn't going anywhere.
>> I'm sad to say that I have been pushed into giving up my cane, with
>> the flight attendant in question assuring me that she would put my
>> cane in the closet at the front of the plane during the flight, but
>> this has happened a very few times, thankfully.
>>
>> I did have one similar experience in my recent Florida travels, when
>> they were trying to acccommodate my seating arrangement on one of
>> those smaller express jets, where I had to give up my dog's harness. I
>> chose not to make an issue of it since I was able to get a seat with
>> potentially more room in the first class area, though we are still
>> talking of those smaller jets. I was reminded of of the incidents of
>> giving up canes though and wondered if giving up a harness was
>> similar. Sadly, it does sound familiar to me. I was able to get the
>> harness back when leaving the plane, but I still felt like something
>> was violated by having to give up the harness. I tried to show the
>> flight attendant that it was secure against the wall of the plane, but
>> no dice. Thoughts?
>>
>> Hth,
>> Wayne
>>
>>
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