[nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
Marion & Martin
swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Wed Dec 2 02:32:24 UTC 2009
Albert,
The message you share is the same message we share! As I may have
pointed out in a previous post, we have many unified special interest groups
in the NFB, each working on a specific piece of the broader issue, all
working with a common philosophy. We need as many messengers as we can
recruit into our Movement!
fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
> Well I will be the one who speaks softly and will let others be the one to
> carry the big sticks when all else fails. There is a reason for having
> options to look at for sure. but, not affording the option of equal
> access
> to education for those of us born with congenital blindness is no longer
> an
> option for the future. I do not want Linda's story to be one that future
> blind students tell in one way or another. I want to hear tell of how
> they
> were able to excel and rise to their goals and personal hopes and
> aspirations. Having committed parents is not enough, we need to let
> educators know they are falling down on their responsibilities when they
> do
> not teach a blind student with tools like braille or other technologies
> which ensure educational advancement and opportunity
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of JULIE PHILLIPSON
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:10 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> well put Linda as usual!
>
> Julie Phillipson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>> Albert,
>> Many of us congenital (whole life) blind are showing the same attitudes
>> that
>> society has about blindness is because we are still a product of that
>> society - crappy attitudes and all! When you are "trained" in
>> helplessness
>> all your life, that's what you expect. Many parents of blind children
>> don't
>> know any better. this, however, is much better now than when I was a
>> baby
>> and little kid.
>>
>> The other problem is mainstreaming of blind kids. The good part is that
>> blind kids are immersed into the general society and not segregated as in
>> the past. the bad part is that these blind kids don't always interact
>> with
>> other blind kids. they grow up as "the only one" and thus never develop
>> a
>> sense of a "blind community". Without this sense of a blind community,
>> they
>> never learn to realize that there are things that are shared experiences
>> and
>> how to learn about one's rights and how to work to gain the rights or to
>> keep the ones already won.
>>
>> You folks, who were sighted and became blind later, have a true sense of
>> life in mainstream society without any stigma of disability or blindness.
>> You grow up with the same opportunities as the rest of society. Upon
>> becoming blind, you get the rude awakening of becoming a second class
>> citizen and all the negative junk society throws at you. You have a
>> strong
>> desire to regain what you had - you lost more than eyesight when you went
>> blind. We need you!!
>>
>> Groups like NFB is our vehicle to regain what we as "the blind" have lost
>> or
>> never had. That's why we fight for literacy, Braille, and the myriad of
>> technology that will provide us with the means to also be on a level
>> playing
>> field so that we - as a group - can rejoin the ranks of society.
>>
>> That would be great if your group could help with the on going education
>> that must be done. But I agree with Julie that yes, education is a must
>> but
>> sometimes we need to back it up with a big stick at times! (grin!)
>>
>> I am glad that the article I sent has generated alot of dialog. I do
>> intend
>> to stop by the Animal Control to find out the real deal with those
>> service
>> dog tags. I know the ADA is the higher authority than any local
>> regulations.
>>
>> When I got my tag, at no time was I ever told that this was something
>> mandatory like that officer said on the news story.
>>
>> Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving and are now getting ready for the
>> upcoming
>> holiday season.
>>
>> Linda and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>> Thank you Michael. I would think there is a lot I could learn from you.
>> I
>> went to your site and would so like to be you when I grow up! LOL.
>> Having
>> only been completely blind for just under 4 years I refuse to accept
>> others
>> misperceptions about blindness. What I did not expect to find was that
>> many of the blind themselves are governed by the same antiquated myths
>> and
>> misperceptions which limit and hinder our inclusion at all levels. I
>> would
>> appreciate learning more and more about my abilities and what is
>> accessible
>> to me as I grow into this new and exciting life of mine. Feel free to
>> share
>> your pearls of wisdom as you see fit. Peace.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Michael Hingson
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:43 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> Good for you. Unfortunately, our people as a whole society do perceive
>> being blind as being less than whole. We educate one person at a time
>> often
>> and more where we can. Welcome to the process. Your voice is
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Mike Hingson
>>
>> The Michael Hingson Group
>> "Speaking with Vision"
>> Michael Hingson, President
>> (415) 827-4084
>> info at michaelhingson.com
>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:00 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> well then seems like I have my work cut out for me. I hope My Blind Spot
>> will be that vehicle to educate the masses on both sides of the fence.
>> It
>> is perplexing at times. Do we put the cart before the horse or not? So
>> many
>> advancements have been made legislatively, technologically and still many
>> of
>> our peers and students coming up the ranks are ignorant to the leveling
>> force of advancements made in the last few decades. Children are still
>> not
>> being taught with Braille or the tools they need to succeed, rehab
>> centers
>> still teach us how to clean and eat rather then how to garner the skill
>> set
>> to secure an independent and financially rewarding life. There needs to
>> be
>> more education on both sides of the fence, all people can llearn when
>> given
>> the tools they need to do so, empowered teachers with knowledge and
>> conviction and the time to learn and exercise what they learn. We as a
>> people have missed the boat on oh so many advancements that it boggles
>> the
>> mind. I am new to the blind thing and refuse to be looked at as less
>> then
>> or accept being marginalized. I am and continue to be an integral part of
>> the whole of society and invite any and all to help me help others to
>> accept
>> and empower the blind to greatness.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:27 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> I wish it were that simple.
>>
>> No, I wasn't talking about taking other blind people to court. I was
>> talking about law enforcement, businesses, people committing fraud by
>> passing pets as service animals and the like. I know very well how
>> much
>> both litigation and education cost in both time and money.
>>
>> Education is a great thing. I am totally in favor of educating when it
>> is
>> appropriate. It would be great if all disabled people knew what their
>> rights are and were able to advocate for themselves. that is
>> unfortunately
>> not the case. I think most disabled people have a general idea about
>> their
>> rights, especially if they have been disabled for a while. However being
>> able to advocate for oneself is a much more complicated matter. I think
>> that is a much more difficult skill.
>>
>> the individual has to be first very well versed in the applicable laws.
>> Second they have to be able to communicate that information in a calm and
>> clear manner. third the person they are speaking to has to be responsive
>> to
>>
>> listening to a disabled person. Unfortunately all to often blind or
>> otherwise disabled people are not viewed as knowledgeable respected
>> members
>> of the community.
>>
>> Take Mardi's bus problems as an example. she has been dealing with that
>> for
>>
>> quite a long time, years. she has talked to the bus drivers. she has
>> talked to the other passengers. she has talked to the bus
>> administration.
>> she has filed complaints. she has done everything in her power to
>> educate.
>> Unfortunately none of those attempts to educate have had much effect.
>> Mardi
>>
>> is very knowledgeable about her rights. she is well spoken and clear in
>> her
>>
>> communication. So why does the bus company not listen to her? I think
>> the
>> answer is two fold. first she is blind and uses a wheelchair. In our
>> society she is not viewed as an equal member of the community to be
>> respected like other citizens. Not right and not fair, but I believe
>> true.
>>
>> Second the bus company doesn't want to be educated. They have had ample
>> opportunities to learn about service dogs, but refuse to make any
>> changes.
>> This is the category I call "willfully stupid".
>>
>> I think education is great when it is working, when people are open to
>> learning and applying the new information. I also believe that there is
>> a
>> time for setting educational opportunities aside and making people comply
>> with the law through all available means.
>>
>> JMO
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>> Hmmmmm... litigation you say? Are you going to take your blind peers to
>>> court for not knowing the laws? How would that work for the common good?
>>> I
>>> see it as simple economics 101. as has been stated here in this chat,
>>> some
>>> blind guide users are not aware of their rights, if we who are protected
>>> by
>>> the laws do not understand or use them how then can we presume to hold
>>> others accountable to them when some of us do not exercise our rights
>>> and
>>> privileges? I see it as I mentioned above simple economics 101 supply
>>> and
>>> demand. If we do not demand what ever it is, access, equality, or
>>> understanding then no one will supply it. In order to have the
>>> legislative
>>> enactments serve the purposes for which they were intended, perhaps we
>>> should conduct seminars much like the one held the other night about
>>> hospitals and guide dogs or the ones at Hadley aimed at educating the
>>> masses
>>> to our rights as afforded by law. Trust me litigation can be costly and
>>> time
>>> consuming. But if each of us educates either the blind or the sighted on
>>> these matters you will be pleasantly surprised by how many doors will
>>> open.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:42 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> The thing about education is that you can't educate people against their
>>> will.
>>>
>>> If people choose to be willfully stupid there isn't a thing you can do.
>>> It's
>>>
>>> like that whole "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it
>>> drink"
>>>
>>> thing.
>>>
>>> I think there is a time and place for education. I also believe that
>>> there
>>> is a time to set the educational opportunities aside and opt for
>>> litigation.
>>>
>>> JMO
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 7:09 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>> Here here Michael. It is all about education. If we educate and inform,
>>> try
>>> to eradicate ignorance when and where it presents itself, then we will
>>> not
>>> have to fight for having our rights acknowledged I hope to be one of
>>> those
>>> educators in our movement toward affirmation, equality, and access..
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Michael Hingson
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:21 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Educating is what we are all about. Most of us constantly strive to
>>> educate
>>> and inform. The teleseminar we conducted concerning guide dogs in
>>> hospitals
>>> is just the most recent example of this.
>>>
>>> What is so disappointing is how many members of the law enforcement do
>>> not
>>> know the law even though it is usually covered to some extent during
>>> their
>>> trainings. Guide dogs have been allowed into public facilities and
>>> places
>>> for many years. I find it unconscionable that today so many either do
>>> not
>>> know or choose to ignore the law.
>>>
>>> Even so, we will continue to educate and inform. We also will fight
>>> when
>>> necessary. We also will work to strengthen the law as we can.
>>>
>>> The Michael Hingson Group
>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>> (415) 827-4084
>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:15 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our community
>>> on
>>> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind
>>> rather
>>> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of the
>>> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place to
>>> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with a
>>> specific challenge or two. Education for both the sighted and the blind
>>> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there
>>> are
>>> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we could
>>> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on
>>> accessibility,
>>> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner
>>> with
>>> which we see things as blind people.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>>
>>> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or Pit
>>> Bulls. They are not all that common, but if it works for that
>>> individual,
>>> why not?
>>>
>>> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud by
>>> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws. There's
>>> loads
>>> of
>>>
>>> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue
>>> about
>>> their rights under the law. Likewise there's fraudulent people who know
>>> the
>>>
>>> law quite well.
>>>
>>> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake" ones?
>>> Not all service animals do the same tasks. Even within service animals
>>> of
>>> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of
>>> variables.
>>>
>>> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between the
>>> real ones and the fake ones? How do you ensure personal privacy during
>>> this
>>>
>>> process? How does this work when traveling between
>>> states/counties/cities?
>>> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will behave
>>> appropriately the next week, the next year, or in situations different
>>> from
>>>
>>> those in the test? Who pays for all of this? How will it not be a
>>> burden
>>> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training
>>> program?
>>>
>>> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals in some
>>> way,
>>>
>>> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that
>>> would
>>> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>>>
>>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where you
>>>>think
>>>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that
>>>> this
>>>> is
>>>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead. As you
>>>> said
>>>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and educated
>>>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we should
>>>> hope,
>>>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream parlor
>>>> we
>>>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be denied
>>>> access
>>>> anywhere we travel. Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not know
>>>> the
>>>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet
>>>> accompany them where our service animals do. How would you suggest
>>>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and or
>>>> pit
>>>> bulls as service animals? .
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>> Albert,
>>>> The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause for
>>>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If I
>>>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a
>>>> tag,
>>>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions
>>>> upon
>>>> me
>>>>
>>>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in
>>>> the
>>>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no documentation
>>>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction upon
>>>> me,
>>>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law. Even
>>>> if
>>>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>>>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating
>>>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to protect
>>>>> our
>>>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was most
>>>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over on
>>>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please. A service
>>>>> animal
>>>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a
>>>>> service
>>>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans
>>>>> and
>>>>> does
>>>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big
>>>>> deal?
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ann,
>>>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are
>>>>> mandatory -
>>>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service
>>>>> animals.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced. I know many guide dog
>>>>> users
>>>>> who
>>>>>
>>>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them
>>>>> several
>>>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was wearing
>>>>> only
>>>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service
>>>>> dog -
>>>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these
>>>>> tags
>>>>> were
>>>>>
>>>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said. I could very easily
>>>>> find
>>>>> out
>>>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane
>>>>> Society
>>>>> twice a month!
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem
>>>>> with
>>>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume in
>>>>> other
>>>>> locales as well. When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER approached
>>>>> the
>>>>> San Diego guide dog using residents. All they needed to do is call up
>>>>> the
>>>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to find
>>>>> us.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the writer
>>>>> of
>>>>> the story and find out more. I've just been quite busy with other
>>>>> pressing
>>>>> things.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>>>> unsocialized
>>>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>>>> problems.
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were
>>>>> very
>>>>> well
>>>>>
>>>>> behaved and socialized. the dogs were suited for the work. I even had
>>>>> one
>>>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon who
>>>>> tried
>>>>> to misbehave! (grin!) I told these people that I appreciated that
>>>>> they
>>>>> had
>>>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these. It is unfortunate that
>>>>> some
>>>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it is a
>>>>> pet
>>>>> or a service dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible
>>>>> owners,
>>>>> I
>>>>> think the bans on dogs would go away. But, you know how it is -
>>>>> people
>>>>> lump
>>>>>
>>>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things. I wish
>>>>> that
>>>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to amaze
>>>>>> me!
>>>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service
>>>>>> animals
>>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and
>>>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>>>> California
>>>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly
>>>>>> tells
>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact
>>>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter
>>>>>> told
>>>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special tag,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>
>>>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form."
>>>>>> Who
>>>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she has
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public place
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her
>>>>>> disability,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement
>>>>>> officer
>>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be
>>>>>> wearing
>>>>>
>>>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal shelter
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that
>>>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt. Dan
>>>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>
>>>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a
>>>>>> debate
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities accompanied
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other
>>>>>> representative of the disability community. And perhaps they should
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who has
>>>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> debate as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San
>>>>>>> Diego's
>>>>>
>>>>>>> KGTV Channel 10. It was a good piece and I wanted to share it with
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT required
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places. Some of us have
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining factor
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that the
>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story all
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service dog"
>>>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>>>> passengers!
>>>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this. He was probably afraid of
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> buildings. It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>>>> menacing
>>>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to
>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.
>>>>>>> 10News
>>>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion
>>>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are truly
>>>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical service
>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate service
>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in
>>>>>>> public,"
>>>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store or a
>>>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl and
>>>>>>> snap
>>>>>
>>>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more
>>>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told 10News
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on the
>>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to perform
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're
>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>> is true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their word."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog tags --
>>>>>>> 43 -- to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags, beating
>>>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls, and
>>>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their dog
>>>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,
>>>>>>> restaurants
>>>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I
>>>>>>> guess,"
>>>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it hurts
>>>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by
>>>>>>> six
>>>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's
>>>>>>> Department
>>>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a con.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the
>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material may
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> nagdu:
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.co
>>>>> m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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