[nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Wed Dec 2 21:02:47 UTC 2009


Linda,

Well said!  You described the experience of us "newbie blind" adults quite
well.  /smile/

And yes, it's a great discussion!  Good philosophy of blindness stuff as it
relates to our guide dog use and access issues, from several different
points of vew.  Fun!

One of those rude awakenings I had a little over three years ago involved
being physically attacked by VR workers determined to enforce the notional
that all blind people are created equally helpless!  I have also been
shocked by how many blind consumers around here are willing to accept being
treated like small children, deprived of information, tools, etc.  My hair
stands on end sometimes, and I just do not know what to think.

So I'm bucking that system yet again, since I truly would like to get back
to my career.  I keep finding myself quoting the law and the rules, policies
and procedures that apply to the current step we're on.  This is apparently
considered to be hostile....  I'm not playing the game right!  They're
supposed to make me jump through a bunch of hoops demanded by their policies
and procedures, then refuse me VR services and tools because they can't
according to their policies and procedures, which they always follow exactly
because they have to follow them.  I guess it really rains on their parade
when someone knows what those things actually are and asks the agency to
follow them!  It would be funny, except that I am not the only one to face
the same situation.  That makes it all despicable.  Sigh.

Anyway, on the flip side, moving into blindness at this time has given me a
really good chance to see how far "normal" society has come in terms of
attitudes towards disabilities and those who have them.  I didn't get my
rude awakening when I lost my vision enough that everyone at work, play, the
store, whereever I went, could tell that I was blind.  The vast majority of
the people I interacted with on a daily basis, just assumed I had it under
control and that that was to be expected.  Very young adults at work would
ask questions quite boldly, the way they ask questions about everything
else, would listen to my answers, occasionally tell me what they thought of
them...  /lol/  I was bullied a couple of times by one person, brought the
situation to my supervisor's attention, and she just dealt with it.  Cool!
Well, the bully had come within inches of pusshing a wheelchair user down
the stairs about then.  So she went bye-bye!

I still get that -- the acceptance and respect, not the bullying -- far more
often than not.  Unless I'm dealing with the VR agency or others who work
with the disabled.  They're there to help, you know!  So we'd better be
helpless.  /evil grin/\

Okay, so I stray.  I joke a lot about the silly things said by the public,
because they're easy to mock.  The most common response I get to the news
that I owner-trained my guide dog is, "Oh!  How do you do that?"  Which is
cool, because there's not a hint of assumption in tone, words or manner to
indicate that they find this at all impossible or forbidden by "Them."  The
second most common response is, "Oh!  They let you do that?"  /lol/  

So in many ways, we have come far, far, since you were a sweet young thing.
A lot of that is because of the work of the NFB and the individuals in it.
We just still have a ways to go, and it's the jerks who make themselves most
noticeable.  Usually in a way that is fun to mock, so long as you stay away
from the ones who are here to help.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Linda Gwizdak
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:36 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Albert,
Many of us congenital (whole life) blind are showing the same attitudes that

society has about blindness is because we are still a product of that 
society - crappy attitudes and all!  When you are "trained" in helplessness 
all your life, that's what you expect. Many parents of blind children don't 
know any better.  this, however, is much better now than when I was a baby 
and little kid.

The other problem is mainstreaming of blind kids.  The good part is that 
blind kids are immersed into the general society and not segregated as in 
the past.  the bad part is that these blind kids don't always interact with 
other blind kids.  they grow up as "the only one" and thus never develop a 
sense of a "blind community".  Without this sense of a blind community, they

never learn to realize that there are things that are shared experiences and

how to learn about one's rights and how to work to gain the rights or to 
keep the ones already won.

You folks, who were sighted and became blind later, have a true sense of 
life in mainstream society without any stigma of disability or blindness. 
You grow up with the same opportunities as the rest of society.  Upon 
becoming blind, you get the rude awakening of becoming a second class 
citizen and all the negative junk society throws at you. You have a strong 
desire to regain what you had - you lost more than eyesight when you went 
blind.  We need you!!

Groups like NFB is our vehicle to regain what we as "the blind" have lost or

never had.  That's why we fight for literacy, Braille, and the myriad of 
technology that will provide us with the means to also be on a level playing

field so that we - as a group - can rejoin the ranks of society.

That would be great if your group could help with the on going education 
that must be done.  But I agree with Julie that yes, education is a must but

sometimes we need to back it up with a big stick at times! (grin!)

I am glad that the article I sent has generated alot of dialog. I do intend 
to stop by the Animal Control to find out the real deal with those service 
dog tags.  I know the ADA is the higher authority than any local 
regulations.

When I got my tag, at no time was I ever told that this was something 
mandatory like that officer said on the news story.

Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving and are now getting ready for the upcoming 
holiday season.

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story


Thank you Michael.  I would think there is a lot I could learn from you. I
went to your site and would so like to be you when I grow up! LOL.  Having
only been completely blind for just under 4 years I refuse to accept others
misperceptions about blindness.  What   I did not expect to find was that
many of the blind themselves are governed by the same antiquated myths and
misperceptions which limit and hinder our inclusion at all levels.  I would
appreciate learning more and more about my abilities and what is accessible
to me as I grow into this new and exciting life of mine.  Feel free to share
your pearls of wisdom as you see fit. Peace.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:43 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Albert,

Good for you.  Unfortunately, our people as a whole society do perceive
being blind as being less than whole.  We educate one person at a time often
and more where we can.  Welcome to the process.  Your voice is appreciated.


Mike Hingson

The Michael Hingson Group
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com


for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com





-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:00 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

well then seems like I have my work cut out for me.  I hope My Blind Spot
will be that vehicle to educate the masses on both sides of the fence.  It
is perplexing at times. Do we put the cart before the horse or not?  So many
advancements have been made legislatively, technologically and still many of
our peers and students coming up the ranks are ignorant to the leveling
force of advancements made in the last few decades. Children are still not
being taught with Braille or the tools they need to succeed, rehab centers
still teach us how to clean and eat rather then how to garner the skill set
to secure an independent and financially rewarding life.  There needs to be
more education on both sides of the fence, all people can llearn when given
the tools they need to do so, empowered teachers with knowledge and
conviction and the time to learn and exercise what they learn.  We as a
people have missed the boat on oh so many advancements that it boggles the
mind.  I am new to the blind thing and refuse to be looked at as less then
or accept being marginalized. I am and continue to be an integral part of
the whole of society and invite any and all to help me help others to accept
and empower the blind to greatness.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:27 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Albert,

I wish it were that simple.

No, I wasn't talking about taking other blind people to court.  I was
talking about law enforcement, businesses, people committing fraud by
passing pets as service animals  and the like.   I know very well how much
both litigation and education cost in both time and money.

Education is a great thing.  I am totally in favor of educating when it is
appropriate.  It would be great if all disabled people knew what their
rights are and were able to advocate for themselves.  that is unfortunately
not the case.  I think most disabled people have a general idea about their
rights, especially if they have been disabled for a while.  However being
able to advocate for oneself is a much more complicated matter.  I think
that is a much more difficult skill.

the individual has to be first very well versed in the applicable laws.
Second they have to be able to communicate that information in a calm and
clear manner.  third the person they are speaking to has to be responsive to

listening to a disabled person.  Unfortunately all to often blind or
otherwise disabled people are not viewed as knowledgeable respected members
of the community.

Take Mardi's bus problems as an example.  she has been dealing with that for

quite a long time, years.  she has talked to the bus drivers.  she has
talked to the other passengers.  she has talked to the bus administration.
she has filed complaints.  she has done everything in her power to educate.
Unfortunately none of those attempts to educate have had much effect.  Mardi

is very knowledgeable about her rights.  she is well spoken and clear in her

communication.  So why does the bus company not listen to her?  I think the
answer is two fold.  first she is blind and uses a wheelchair.  In our
society she is not viewed as an equal member of the community to be
respected like other citizens.   Not right and not fair, but I believe true.

Second the bus company doesn't want to be educated.  They have had ample
opportunities to learn about service dogs, but refuse to make any changes.
This is the category I call "willfully stupid".

I think education is great when it is working, when people are open to
learning and applying the new information.  I also believe that there is a
time for setting educational opportunities aside and making people comply
with the law through all available means.

JMO
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story


> Hmmmmm... litigation you say? Are you going to take your blind peers to
> court for not knowing the laws? How would that work for the common good?
> I
> see it as simple economics 101. as has been stated here in this chat, some
> blind guide users are not aware of their rights, if we who are protected
> by
> the laws do not understand or use them how then can we presume to hold
> others accountable  to them when some of us do not exercise our rights and
> privileges? I see it as I mentioned above simple economics 101 supply and
> demand. If we do not demand what ever it is, access, equality, or
> understanding then no one will supply it.  In order to have the
> legislative
> enactments serve the purposes for which they were intended, perhaps we
> should conduct seminars much like the one held the other night about
> hospitals and guide dogs or the ones at Hadley aimed at educating the
> masses
> to our rights as afforded by law. Trust me litigation can be costly and
> time
> consuming. But if each of us educates either the blind or the sighted on
> these matters you will be pleasantly surprised by how many doors will
> open.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:42 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> The thing about education is that you can't educate people against their
> will.
>
> If people choose to be willfully stupid there isn't a thing you can do.
> It's
>
> like that whole "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it
> drink"
>
> thing.
>
> I think there is a time and place for education.  I also believe that
> there
> is a time to set the educational opportunities aside and opt for
> litigation.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 7:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
> Here here Michael. It is all about education. If we educate and inform,
> try
> to eradicate ignorance when and where it presents itself, then we will not
> have to fight for having our rights acknowledged I hope to be one of those
> educators in our movement toward affirmation, equality, and access..
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael Hingson
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:21 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Hi,
>
> Educating is what we are all about.  Most of us constantly strive to
> educate
> and inform.  The teleseminar we conducted concerning guide dogs in
> hospitals
> is just the most recent example of this.
>
> What is so disappointing is how many members of the law enforcement do not
> know the law even though it is usually covered to some extent during their
> trainings.  Guide dogs have been allowed into public facilities and places
> for many years.  I find it unconscionable that today so many either do not
> know or choose to ignore the law.
>
> Even so, we will continue to educate and inform.  We also will fight when
> necessary.  We also will work to strengthen the law as we can.
>
> The Michael Hingson Group
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> www.michaelhingson.com
>
>
> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:15 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our community on
> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind
> rather
> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of the
> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place to
> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with a
> specific challenge or two.  Education for both the sighted and the blind
> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there are
> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we could
> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on
> accessibility,
> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner with
> which we see things as blind people.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or Pit
> Bulls.  They are not all that common, but if it works for that individual,
> why not?
>
> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud by
> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws.  There's loads
> of
>
> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue
> about
> their rights under the law.  Likewise there's fraudulent people who know
> the
>
> law quite well.
>
> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake" ones?
> Not all service animals do the same tasks.  Even within service animals of
> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of
> variables.
>
> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between the
> real ones and the fake ones?  How do you ensure personal privacy during
> this
>
> process?  How does this work when traveling between
> states/counties/cities?
> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will behave
> appropriately the next week, the next year,  or in situations different
> from
>
> those in the test?  Who pays for all of this?  How will it not be a burden
> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training program?
>
> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals  in some
> way,
>
> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that
> would
> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where you
>>think
>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that this
>> is
>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead.  As you said
>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and educated
>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we should
>> hope,
>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream parlor we
>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be denied
>> access
>> anywhere we travel.  Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not know
>> the
>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet
>> accompany them where our service animals do.  How would you suggest
>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and or
>> pit
>> bulls as service animals? .
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>    The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause for
>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If I
>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a tag,
>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions upon
>> me
>>
>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in the
>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no documentation
>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction upon
>> me,
>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law. Even if
>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating
>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to protect
>>> our
>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was most
>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over on
>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please.  A service
>>> animal
>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a service
>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans and
>>> does
>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big deal?
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Hi Ann,
>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are
>>> mandatory -
>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service
>>> animals.
>>>
>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced.  I know many guide dog users
>>> who
>>>
>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them
>>> several
>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was wearing
>>> only
>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service dog -
>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>
>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these tags
>>> were
>>>
>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said.  I could very easily find
>>> out
>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane
>>> Society
>>> twice a month!
>>>
>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem with
>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume in
>>> other
>>> locales as well.  When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER approached
>>> the
>>> San Diego guide dog using residents.  All they needed to do is call up
>>> the
>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to find us.
>>>
>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the writer
>>> of
>>> the story and find out more.  I've just been quite busy with other
>>> pressing
>>> things.
>>>
>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and I
>>> don't
>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>> unsocialized
>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>
>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>> problems.
>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were very
>>> well
>>>
>>> behaved and socialized.  the dogs were suited for the work. I even had
>>> one
>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon who
>>> tried
>>> to misbehave! (grin!)  I told these people that I appreciated that they
>>> had
>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these.  It is unfortunate that some
>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it is a
>>> pet
>>> or a service dog.
>>>
>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible
>>> owners,
>>> I
>>> think the bans on dogs would go away.  But, you know how it is - people
>>> lump
>>>
>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things.  I wish
>>> that
>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>
>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>
>>> Linda and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>
>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to amaze
>>>> me!
>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service animals
>>>> is
>>>
>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and
>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>
>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>> California
>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly tells
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact
>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told
>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special tag,
>>>> which
>>>
>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form."
>>>> Who
>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she has
>>>> the
>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public place on
>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her disability,
>>>> or
>>>
>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement officer
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be
>>>> wearing
>>>
>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal shelter
>>>> in
>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>
>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide dog
>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that
>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt. Dan
>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?
>>>> Perhaps
>>>
>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a debate
>>>> on
>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities accompanied
>>>> by
>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other
>>>> representative of the disability community.  And perhaps they should
>>>> also
>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who has
>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull in
>>>> the
>>>> debate as well.
>>>>
>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Ann
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San
>>>>> Diego's
>>>
>>>>> KGTV Channel 10.  It was a good piece and I wanted to share it with
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT required to
>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places.  Some of us have them
>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining factor
>>>>> in
>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that the
>>>>> dog
>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story all the
>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service dog"
>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>> passengers!
>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this.  He was probably afraid of
>>>>> being
>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in
>>>>> public
>>>>> buildings.  It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>> menacing
>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>
>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to break
>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.
>>>>> 10News
>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion
>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are truly
>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical service dog
>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but when
>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting into
>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate service
>>>>> dog.
>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in public,"
>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store or a
>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl and
>>>>> snap
>>>
>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>
>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more
>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are trying
>>>>> to
>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told 10News
>>>>> that
>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which can be
>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The only
>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on the
>>>>> answers.
>>>>>
>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the only
>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to perform a
>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're
>>>>> saying
>>>>> is true.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa
>>>>> said,
>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their word."
>>>>>
>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog tags --
>>>>> 43 --  to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags, beating
>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls, and
>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their dog
>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,
>>>>> restaurants
>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I guess,"
>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it hurts
>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>
>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by six
>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's Department
>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a con.
>>>>>
>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the rules
>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>> decision
>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material may
>>>>> not
>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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