[nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
Linda Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Fri Dec 4 18:16:55 UTC 2009
So, Tami, why the hell aren't those VR people in jail for assult and
battery??????How did they get away with that???? Doesn't the agency require
a background check for their staff??? Unbelievable!
Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
> Linda,
>
> Well said! You described the experience of us "newbie blind" adults quite
> well. /smile/
>
> And yes, it's a great discussion! Good philosophy of blindness stuff as
> it
> relates to our guide dog use and access issues, from several different
> points of vew. Fun!
>
> One of those rude awakenings I had a little over three years ago involved
> being physically attacked by VR workers determined to enforce the notional
> that all blind people are created equally helpless! I have also been
> shocked by how many blind consumers around here are willing to accept
> being
> treated like small children, deprived of information, tools, etc. My hair
> stands on end sometimes, and I just do not know what to think.
>
> So I'm bucking that system yet again, since I truly would like to get back
> to my career. I keep finding myself quoting the law and the rules,
> policies
> and procedures that apply to the current step we're on. This is
> apparently
> considered to be hostile.... I'm not playing the game right! They're
> supposed to make me jump through a bunch of hoops demanded by their
> policies
> and procedures, then refuse me VR services and tools because they can't
> according to their policies and procedures, which they always follow
> exactly
> because they have to follow them. I guess it really rains on their parade
> when someone knows what those things actually are and asks the agency to
> follow them! It would be funny, except that I am not the only one to face
> the same situation. That makes it all despicable. Sigh.
>
> Anyway, on the flip side, moving into blindness at this time has given me
> a
> really good chance to see how far "normal" society has come in terms of
> attitudes towards disabilities and those who have them. I didn't get my
> rude awakening when I lost my vision enough that everyone at work, play,
> the
> store, whereever I went, could tell that I was blind. The vast majority
> of
> the people I interacted with on a daily basis, just assumed I had it under
> control and that that was to be expected. Very young adults at work would
> ask questions quite boldly, the way they ask questions about everything
> else, would listen to my answers, occasionally tell me what they thought
> of
> them... /lol/ I was bullied a couple of times by one person, brought the
> situation to my supervisor's attention, and she just dealt with it. Cool!
> Well, the bully had come within inches of pusshing a wheelchair user down
> the stairs about then. So she went bye-bye!
>
> I still get that -- the acceptance and respect, not the bullying -- far
> more
> often than not. Unless I'm dealing with the VR agency or others who work
> with the disabled. They're there to help, you know! So we'd better be
> helpless. /evil grin/\
>
> Okay, so I stray. I joke a lot about the silly things said by the public,
> because they're easy to mock. The most common response I get to the news
> that I owner-trained my guide dog is, "Oh! How do you do that?" Which is
> cool, because there's not a hint of assumption in tone, words or manner to
> indicate that they find this at all impossible or forbidden by "Them."
> The
> second most common response is, "Oh! They let you do that?" /lol/
>
> So in many ways, we have come far, far, since you were a sweet young
> thing.
> A lot of that is because of the work of the NFB and the individuals in it.
> We just still have a ways to go, and it's the jerks who make themselves
> most
> noticeable. Usually in a way that is fun to mock, so long as you stay
> away
> from the ones who are here to help.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:36 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
> Many of us congenital (whole life) blind are showing the same attitudes
> that
>
> society has about blindness is because we are still a product of that
> society - crappy attitudes and all! When you are "trained" in
> helplessness
> all your life, that's what you expect. Many parents of blind children
> don't
> know any better. this, however, is much better now than when I was a baby
> and little kid.
>
> The other problem is mainstreaming of blind kids. The good part is that
> blind kids are immersed into the general society and not segregated as in
> the past. the bad part is that these blind kids don't always interact
> with
> other blind kids. they grow up as "the only one" and thus never develop a
> sense of a "blind community". Without this sense of a blind community,
> they
>
> never learn to realize that there are things that are shared experiences
> and
>
> how to learn about one's rights and how to work to gain the rights or to
> keep the ones already won.
>
> You folks, who were sighted and became blind later, have a true sense of
> life in mainstream society without any stigma of disability or blindness.
> You grow up with the same opportunities as the rest of society. Upon
> becoming blind, you get the rude awakening of becoming a second class
> citizen and all the negative junk society throws at you. You have a strong
> desire to regain what you had - you lost more than eyesight when you went
> blind. We need you!!
>
> Groups like NFB is our vehicle to regain what we as "the blind" have lost
> or
>
> never had. That's why we fight for literacy, Braille, and the myriad of
> technology that will provide us with the means to also be on a level
> playing
>
> field so that we - as a group - can rejoin the ranks of society.
>
> That would be great if your group could help with the on going education
> that must be done. But I agree with Julie that yes, education is a must
> but
>
> sometimes we need to back it up with a big stick at times! (grin!)
>
> I am glad that the article I sent has generated alot of dialog. I do
> intend
> to stop by the Animal Control to find out the real deal with those service
> dog tags. I know the ADA is the higher authority than any local
> regulations.
>
> When I got my tag, at no time was I ever told that this was something
> mandatory like that officer said on the news story.
>
> Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving and are now getting ready for the
> upcoming
> holiday season.
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
> Thank you Michael. I would think there is a lot I could learn from you. I
> went to your site and would so like to be you when I grow up! LOL. Having
> only been completely blind for just under 4 years I refuse to accept
> others
> misperceptions about blindness. What I did not expect to find was that
> many of the blind themselves are governed by the same antiquated myths and
> misperceptions which limit and hinder our inclusion at all levels. I
> would
> appreciate learning more and more about my abilities and what is
> accessible
> to me as I grow into this new and exciting life of mine. Feel free to
> share
> your pearls of wisdom as you see fit. Peace.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael Hingson
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:43 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> Good for you. Unfortunately, our people as a whole society do perceive
> being blind as being less than whole. We educate one person at a time
> often
> and more where we can. Welcome to the process. Your voice is
> appreciated.
>
>
> Mike Hingson
>
> The Michael Hingson Group
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> www.michaelhingson.com
>
>
> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:00 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> well then seems like I have my work cut out for me. I hope My Blind Spot
> will be that vehicle to educate the masses on both sides of the fence. It
> is perplexing at times. Do we put the cart before the horse or not? So
> many
> advancements have been made legislatively, technologically and still many
> of
> our peers and students coming up the ranks are ignorant to the leveling
> force of advancements made in the last few decades. Children are still not
> being taught with Braille or the tools they need to succeed, rehab centers
> still teach us how to clean and eat rather then how to garner the skill
> set
> to secure an independent and financially rewarding life. There needs to
> be
> more education on both sides of the fence, all people can llearn when
> given
> the tools they need to do so, empowered teachers with knowledge and
> conviction and the time to learn and exercise what they learn. We as a
> people have missed the boat on oh so many advancements that it boggles the
> mind. I am new to the blind thing and refuse to be looked at as less then
> or accept being marginalized. I am and continue to be an integral part of
> the whole of society and invite any and all to help me help others to
> accept
> and empower the blind to greatness.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:27 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> I wish it were that simple.
>
> No, I wasn't talking about taking other blind people to court. I was
> talking about law enforcement, businesses, people committing fraud by
> passing pets as service animals and the like. I know very well how much
> both litigation and education cost in both time and money.
>
> Education is a great thing. I am totally in favor of educating when it is
> appropriate. It would be great if all disabled people knew what their
> rights are and were able to advocate for themselves. that is
> unfortunately
> not the case. I think most disabled people have a general idea about
> their
> rights, especially if they have been disabled for a while. However being
> able to advocate for oneself is a much more complicated matter. I think
> that is a much more difficult skill.
>
> the individual has to be first very well versed in the applicable laws.
> Second they have to be able to communicate that information in a calm and
> clear manner. third the person they are speaking to has to be responsive
> to
>
> listening to a disabled person. Unfortunately all to often blind or
> otherwise disabled people are not viewed as knowledgeable respected
> members
> of the community.
>
> Take Mardi's bus problems as an example. she has been dealing with that
> for
>
> quite a long time, years. she has talked to the bus drivers. she has
> talked to the other passengers. she has talked to the bus administration.
> she has filed complaints. she has done everything in her power to
> educate.
> Unfortunately none of those attempts to educate have had much effect.
> Mardi
>
> is very knowledgeable about her rights. she is well spoken and clear in
> her
>
> communication. So why does the bus company not listen to her? I think
> the
> answer is two fold. first she is blind and uses a wheelchair. In our
> society she is not viewed as an equal member of the community to be
> respected like other citizens. Not right and not fair, but I believe
> true.
>
> Second the bus company doesn't want to be educated. They have had ample
> opportunities to learn about service dogs, but refuse to make any changes.
> This is the category I call "willfully stupid".
>
> I think education is great when it is working, when people are open to
> learning and applying the new information. I also believe that there is a
> time for setting educational opportunities aside and making people comply
> with the law through all available means.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>> Hmmmmm... litigation you say? Are you going to take your blind peers to
>> court for not knowing the laws? How would that work for the common good?
>> I
>> see it as simple economics 101. as has been stated here in this chat,
>> some
>> blind guide users are not aware of their rights, if we who are protected
>> by
>> the laws do not understand or use them how then can we presume to hold
>> others accountable to them when some of us do not exercise our rights
>> and
>> privileges? I see it as I mentioned above simple economics 101 supply and
>> demand. If we do not demand what ever it is, access, equality, or
>> understanding then no one will supply it. In order to have the
>> legislative
>> enactments serve the purposes for which they were intended, perhaps we
>> should conduct seminars much like the one held the other night about
>> hospitals and guide dogs or the ones at Hadley aimed at educating the
>> masses
>> to our rights as afforded by law. Trust me litigation can be costly and
>> time
>> consuming. But if each of us educates either the blind or the sighted on
>> these matters you will be pleasantly surprised by how many doors will
>> open.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:42 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> The thing about education is that you can't educate people against their
>> will.
>>
>> If people choose to be willfully stupid there isn't a thing you can do.
>> It's
>>
>> like that whole "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it
>> drink"
>>
>> thing.
>>
>> I think there is a time and place for education. I also believe that
>> there
>> is a time to set the educational opportunities aside and opt for
>> litigation.
>>
>> JMO
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 7:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>> Here here Michael. It is all about education. If we educate and inform,
>> try
>> to eradicate ignorance when and where it presents itself, then we will
>> not
>> have to fight for having our rights acknowledged I hope to be one of
>> those
>> educators in our movement toward affirmation, equality, and access..
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Michael Hingson
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:21 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Educating is what we are all about. Most of us constantly strive to
>> educate
>> and inform. The teleseminar we conducted concerning guide dogs in
>> hospitals
>> is just the most recent example of this.
>>
>> What is so disappointing is how many members of the law enforcement do
>> not
>> know the law even though it is usually covered to some extent during
>> their
>> trainings. Guide dogs have been allowed into public facilities and
>> places
>> for many years. I find it unconscionable that today so many either do
>> not
>> know or choose to ignore the law.
>>
>> Even so, we will continue to educate and inform. We also will fight when
>> necessary. We also will work to strengthen the law as we can.
>>
>> The Michael Hingson Group
>> "Speaking with Vision"
>> Michael Hingson, President
>> (415) 827-4084
>> info at michaelhingson.com
>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:15 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our community
>> on
>> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind
>> rather
>> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of the
>> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place to
>> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with a
>> specific challenge or two. Education for both the sighted and the blind
>> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there are
>> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we could
>> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on
>> accessibility,
>> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner
>> with
>> which we see things as blind people.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or Pit
>> Bulls. They are not all that common, but if it works for that
>> individual,
>> why not?
>>
>> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud by
>> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws. There's loads
>> of
>>
>> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue
>> about
>> their rights under the law. Likewise there's fraudulent people who know
>> the
>>
>> law quite well.
>>
>> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake" ones?
>> Not all service animals do the same tasks. Even within service animals
>> of
>> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of
>> variables.
>>
>> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between the
>> real ones and the fake ones? How do you ensure personal privacy during
>> this
>>
>> process? How does this work when traveling between
>> states/counties/cities?
>> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will behave
>> appropriately the next week, the next year, or in situations different
>> from
>>
>> those in the test? Who pays for all of this? How will it not be a
>> burden
>> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training
>> program?
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals in some
>> way,
>>
>> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that
>> would
>> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>>
>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where you
>>>think
>>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that
>>> this
>>> is
>>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead. As you
>>> said
>>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and educated
>>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we should
>>> hope,
>>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream parlor
>>> we
>>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be denied
>>> access
>>> anywhere we travel. Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not know
>>> the
>>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet
>>> accompany them where our service animals do. How would you suggest
>>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and or
>>> pit
>>> bulls as service animals? .
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>> The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause for
>>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If I
>>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a
>>> tag,
>>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions
>>> upon
>>> me
>>>
>>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in the
>>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no documentation
>>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction upon
>>> me,
>>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law. Even
>>> if
>>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating
>>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to protect
>>>> our
>>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was most
>>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over on
>>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please. A service
>>>> animal
>>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a
>>>> service
>>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans and
>>>> does
>>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big
>>>> deal?
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ann,
>>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are
>>>> mandatory -
>>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service
>>>> animals.
>>>>
>>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced. I know many guide dog
>>>> users
>>>> who
>>>>
>>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them
>>>> several
>>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was wearing
>>>> only
>>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service
>>>> dog -
>>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>>
>>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these tags
>>>> were
>>>>
>>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said. I could very easily find
>>>> out
>>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane
>>>> Society
>>>> twice a month!
>>>>
>>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem
>>>> with
>>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume in
>>>> other
>>>> locales as well. When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER approached
>>>> the
>>>> San Diego guide dog using residents. All they needed to do is call up
>>>> the
>>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to find
>>>> us.
>>>>
>>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the writer
>>>> of
>>>> the story and find out more. I've just been quite busy with other
>>>> pressing
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and I
>>>> don't
>>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>>> unsocialized
>>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>>
>>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>>> problems.
>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were very
>>>> well
>>>>
>>>> behaved and socialized. the dogs were suited for the work. I even had
>>>> one
>>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon who
>>>> tried
>>>> to misbehave! (grin!) I told these people that I appreciated that they
>>>> had
>>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these. It is unfortunate that
>>>> some
>>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it is a
>>>> pet
>>>> or a service dog.
>>>>
>>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible
>>>> owners,
>>>> I
>>>> think the bans on dogs would go away. But, you know how it is - people
>>>> lump
>>>>
>>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things. I wish
>>>> that
>>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>>
>>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>>
>>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to amaze
>>>>> me!
>>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service
>>>>> animals
>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and
>>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>>> California
>>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly tells
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact
>>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told
>>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special tag,
>>>>> which
>>>>
>>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form."
>>>>> Who
>>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she has
>>>>> the
>>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public place on
>>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her
>>>>> disability,
>>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement
>>>>> officer
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be
>>>>> wearing
>>>>
>>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal shelter
>>>>> in
>>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>>
>>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide dog
>>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that
>>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt. Dan
>>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>
>>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a debate
>>>>> on
>>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities accompanied
>>>>> by
>>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other
>>>>> representative of the disability community. And perhaps they should
>>>>> also
>>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who has
>>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull in
>>>>> the
>>>>> debate as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Ann
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San
>>>>>> Diego's
>>>>
>>>>>> KGTV Channel 10. It was a good piece and I wanted to share it with
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT required
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places. Some of us have
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining factor
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that the
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service dog"
>>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>>> passengers!
>>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this. He was probably afraid of
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in
>>>>>> public
>>>>>> buildings. It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>>> menacing
>>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.
>>>>>> 10News
>>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion
>>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are truly
>>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical service
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting into
>>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate service
>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in public,"
>>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store or a
>>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl and
>>>>>> snap
>>>>
>>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more
>>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are trying
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told 10News
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which can be
>>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The only
>>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on the
>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the only
>>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to perform a
>>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're
>>>>>> saying
>>>>>> is true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa
>>>>>> said,
>>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their word."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog tags --
>>>>>> 43 -- to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags, beating
>>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls, and
>>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their dog
>>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,
>>>>>> restaurants
>>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I
>>>>>> guess,"
>>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it hurts
>>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by six
>>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's
>>>>>> Department
>>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a con.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the rules
>>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>>> decision
>>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material may
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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