[nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Linda Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sat Dec 5 21:46:39 UTC 2009


I don't remember when the White Cane laws came about.  Anyone remeber?

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story


> Wow, this blows my mind.
> So before white cane laws, blind people couldn't be out alone? When did
> white cane laws come into being?
> And, were there any teeth behind the contribuitary negliance laws?
> Anybody willing to share more history with me? How did these laws get on
> the books, why, and how did they go away?
> Reminds me of the laws that used to require married women to notify
> their husbands if they planned to have an abortion, the presumption
> being that the fetus was the husband's child. Or the law saying that
> doctors couldn't prescribe birth control to single and maybe married
> women as well.
> Unbelievable!
> So, were these contributiary negligence laws actually enforced, or was
> it on the books and ignored?
> Very interesting.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 1:22 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Hi Tami,
> Yeah, I remember the "contributory negligence" of blind people when we
> traveled alone in the streets.  I think the White Cane Pedestrian Laws
> came
> into being to get rid of that thinking!
>
> Fortunately, my vision was still pretty good and I never had a problem
> and I
> wasn't needing to use a mobility aide yet.
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> I didn't know about the contributory negligence thing.  OMG!  Every
> now
>> and
>> then I do run across someone who doesn't believe "those people" should
> be
>> out in public.  Since they say it loudly in my hearing, I can only
> assume
>> I
>> am the "those people" to whom they are referring.  If I pretend I
> didn't
>> hear a thing, I can get quite a lot of insight in the thinking of such
>> people.  It's so stupid that I eventually wander off, laughing openly
> at
>> the
>> stupidity of all and shaking my head.  Not worth trying to educate
> that
>> sort, clearly.  But I always make sure to have a nice, intelligent
>> conversation and do some intelligent problem solving and stuff where I
>
>> know
>> they will see and hear.  Not because I'm nice, but because I grew up
> where
>> those attitudes are endemic and I know that behaving like I belong
> where I
>> am and am a high-functioning person accepted by others is about the
> most
>> viciously aggressive thing I can do to them!  Okay, so I'm still a
> redneck
>> myself, I guess.  /smile/
>>
>> Anyway, the fact that that attitude was law -- or at least policy --
> is so
>> shocking!  As well as they underlying notion that blind people (or
> people
>> in
>> wheelchairs or whatever) shouldn't be out in public.  It's bad enough
> that
>> people thought or still think that way.  But for it to be public
> policy?
>>
>> Well, you're right.  We have come a long way.  And it is a marathon.
> And
>> me, still learning to job again!  /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:15 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> Meaning no disrespect here...but I really don't understand how you
> have
>> come
>>
>> to the conclusion that there have been no advancements in education
> for
>> blind people and no advancement in social acceptance?
>>
>> There is the rehab act of 1973, IDEA, the ADA and white cane laws in
> each
>> and every state.  did you know that before the white cane laws it was
>> considered contributory negligence for a blind person to be out and
> about
>> alone?  Yes, if you as a blind person were out going to a store and
> got
>> hit
>> by  a car crossing the street it would be considered your, the blind
>> person,
>>
>> fault because you shouldn't have been out in the first place.
> Nevermind
>> the
>>
>> pedestrian laws, those didn't apply to blind people.
>>
>> When I was of school age my parents sent me to a private school to
> avoid
>> the
>>
>> special and inadequate education available in the public schools.
> Earlier
>> this year a Mom of a blind child that I mentor and advocate for was
>> successful in getting her preschooler both Braille and cane travel
>> included
>> in his IEP.  That may not seem like much to you, but to me and that
> little
>> boy it is quite a bit.
>>
>> That figure of 70% unemployment is, I believe, from a very old survey.
> I
>> don't know of any recent similar statistics.  If you have a source for
>> recent data, I would be very interested.  BTW here in Nebraska our
>> Orientation Center graduates have a 90% employment rate.  In the
> current
>> economy that is pretty much par with the national average unemployment
>
>> rate.
>>
>> Although here in NE we do have an unemployment rate of less than the
>> national average.
>>
>> I don't think social change is a sprint.  I believe it is a marathon.
> the
>> folks on this list have been at it for a long, long time.  I know that
> for
>> myself if I tried to achieve full integration for blind people in the
> next
>> year, I would end up in a hospital of some variety for sure.  I know
>> though,
>>
>> that if we all keep at it and do what we can day after day, year after
>
>> year,
>>
>> decade after decade, that we will get there.
>>
>> JMO
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "'Kathleen Cochran'" <cochrankat at gmail.com>;
> <info at myblindspot.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>> no offense, but I
>>> do not see where there has been a useful approach to education and
>>> educating others on things as they relate to blindness. Nothing in my
>>> opinion exists like my blind spot and if it does how has it been
> working
>>> for
>>> all of you? Has there been a shift in the unemployment rate in recent
>>> decades? No,  do our blind students get the tools they need from
> pre-k on
>>> to
>>> maximize their educational goals and objectives? No. do not
> misunderstand
>>> me, I know many advancements have been realized but now we need to
> use
>>> the
>>> tools that exist to further promote our equality. Litigation should
> be a
>>> last option, invite others to an informed and open dialogue and much
> will
>>> shift and be able to further the hard work and efforts of the trail
>>> blazers
>>> and pioneers of the blind movement. I mean no disrespect   but I find
>
>>> that
>>> the majority of my blind peers here in my area are malcontent and
>>> disappointed in many things that have not changed. There is little
> hope
>>> of
>>> leading independent and financially meaningful lives, and that is a
>>> conclusion drawn from first hand experiences and conversations with
> those
>>> stuck and those living life to the fullest. So while I do embrace
> many of
>>> the efforts of  and what the nfb stands for, I see much room for
> making a
>>> better life for my blind peers from the foundation which was laid by
> the
>>> nfb
>>> and which seems to have become splintered and dispersed. Just my
> thoughts
>>> on
>>> the matter.
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
> who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Margo and Arrow
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:31 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> albert, it is good that you wish to help in these areas.  I'm
> thinking
>>> that
>>> you may be duplicating what the National Federation of the blind is
>>> already
>>> doing.
>>>
>>> if you have not done so, please go to
>>>
>>> http://www.nfb.org
>>>
>>> and find out what this 50,000-member organization is already dong
> toward
>>> those ends.
>>>
>>> Your thoughts, beliefs, and your website, etc., are wonderful.  You
>>> mentioned that you are new to the blindness scene yourself.  Please
> take
>>> time to talk with blind folks who have been blind all our lives to
> find
>>> out
>>> what paradigms do exist, to find out what we have accomplished, and
> voice
>>> your beliefs, actions, thoughts to all of us.  new ideas and new ways
> of
>>> thinking about things are certainly welcome, but, I think you'll find
>
>>> that
>>> perhaps a lot of what you suggest is already being done on some level
> or
>>> another.  We all are in a position to roll up our sleeves and dive in
> and
>>> do
>>>
>>> what needs to be done.
>>>
>>> As we say in the NFB:  We know who we are and we won't go back.
>>>
>>> Margo and Arrow
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am there with bells on!  I incorporated, got approved as a formal
>>>>501c3,
>>>> got my first grant, got on two tri state area news programs, one
>>>> international radio show, am in psychology today magazine on page
> 74,
>>>> have
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> nationally focused board all of whom have one degree of separation
> from
>>>> blindness,  and just today secured my first intern, who happens to
> be
>>>> blind,
>>>> and all within 9 months of having incorporated.  My blind spot will
> be
>>>> that
>>>> missing link and I promise to shift the perspectives of all peoples
>>>> beliefs
>>>> and positions on blindness and work to decrease the unemployment
> rate
>>>> amongst the blind, which I cannot believe has not shifted in nearly
> 4
>>>> decades. I cannot and will not be able to do it alone. So with the
>>>> permission of all of you, I would like to post a link to our site
> and to
>>>> our
>>>> face book page so we can keep you posted on our efforts, but more
>>>> importantly, get your input on how to provide those deliverables
> which
>>>> seem
>>>> to have alluded us for so long despite the good work of my blind
>>>> predecessors.  I was listening to walking alone and marching
> together
>>>> and
>>>> heard clearly that education across the board of what our abilities
> are
>>>> in
>>>> both the sighted and visually impaired communities are what is
> lacking.
>>>> I
>>>> heard tell of our first presidents call to action to protect our
>>>> interests
>>>> from the muck and mire of the social security system, yet all to
> many of
>>>> us
>>>> are right where he feared we would be. I say time to take the
> initiative
>>>> to
>>>> build on our fore fathers and mothers efforts and do them proud.
> That is
>>>> what my blind spot hopes to be, promises to be and will be with all
> of
>>>> you
>>>> to help mentor and guide me and my team. Peace.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
> who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of JULIE PHILLIPSON
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:16 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>> Albert I hope you are willing to joint in this effort that we have
> been
>>>> doing for the last 80 plus years in this country.
>>>>
>>>> Julie Phillipson
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:14 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our
> community
>>>>> on
>>>>> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the
> blind
>>>>> rather
>>>>> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of
> the
>>>>> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in
> place
>>>>> to
>>>>> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life
> with a
>>>>> specific challenge or two.  Education for both the sighted and the
>>>>> blind
>>>>> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If
> there
>>>>> are
>>>>> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we
> could
>>>>> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on
>>>>> accessibility,
>>>>> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the
> manner
>>>>> with
>>>>> which we see things as blind people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Julie J
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>
>>>>> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies
> or
>>>>> Pit
>>>>> Bulls.  They are not all that common, but if it works for that
>>>>> individual,
>>>>> why not?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit
> fraud
>>>>> by
>>>>> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws.  There's
>>>>> loads
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no
> clue
>>>>> about
>>>>> their rights under the law.  Likewise there's fraudulent people who
>
>>>>> know
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> law quite well.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake"
> ones?
>>>>> Not all service animals do the same tasks.  Even within service
> animals
>>>>> of
>>>>> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of
>>>>> variables.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination
> between
>>>>> the
>>>>> real ones and the fake ones?  How do you ensure personal privacy
> during
>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>> process?  How does this work when traveling between
>>>>> states/counties/cities?
>>>>> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will
> behave
>>>>> appropriately the next week, the next year,  or in situations
> different
>>>>> from
>>>>>
>>>>> those in the test?  Who pays for all of this?  How will it not be a
>>>>> burden
>>>>> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training
>>>>> program?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals  in
> some
>>>>> way,
>>>>>
>>>>> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions
> that
>>>>> would
>>>>> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where
> you
>>>>>>think
>>>>>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me
> that
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead.  As
> you
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and
> educated
>>>>>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we
> should
>>>>>> hope,
>>>>>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream
> parlor
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be
> denied
>>>>>> access
>>>>>> anywhere we travel.  Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not
>
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their
> pet
>>>>>> accompany them where our service animals do.  How would you
> suggest
>>>>>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies
> and or
>>>>>> pit
>>>>>> bulls as service animals? .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
> one
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>>    The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause
> for
>>>>>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag.
> If I
>>>>>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such
> a
>>>>>> tag,
>>>>>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more
> restrictions
>>>>>> upon
>>>>>> me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel
> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no
> documentation
>>>>>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction
>
>>>>>> upon
>>>>>> me,
>>>>>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law.
> Even
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>>>>>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of
> creating
>>>>>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to
>>>>>>> protect
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was
> most
>>>>>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get
> over
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please.  A
> service
>>>>>>> animal
>>>>>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a
>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from
> charlatans
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the
> big
>>>>>>> deal?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
> one
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Ann,
>>>>>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are
>>>>>>> mandatory -
>>>>>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent
> service
>>>>>>> animals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced.  I know many guide
> dog
>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing
> them
>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was
> wearing
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a
> service
>>>>>>> dog -
>>>>>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that
> these
>>>>>>> tags
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said.  I could very
> easily
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane
>>>>>>> Society
>>>>>>> twice a month!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate
> problem
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume
> in
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> locales as well.  When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER
>>>>>>> approached
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> San Diego guide dog using residents.  All they needed to do is
> call
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to
> find
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the
>>>>>>> writer
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the story and find out more.  I've just been quite busy with
> other
>>>>>>> pressing
>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal
> and I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>>>>>> unsocialized
>>>>>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who
> were
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> behaved and socialized.  the dogs were suited for the work. I
> even
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon
> who
>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>> to misbehave! (grin!)  I told these people that I appreciated
> that
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these.  It is unfortunate
> that
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it
> is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> pet
>>>>>>> or a service dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible
>>>>>>> owners,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think the bans on dogs would go away.  But, you know how it is -
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> lump
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things.  I
>
>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to
> amaze
>>>>>>>> me!
>>>>>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service
>>>>>>>> animals
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies,
> and
>>>>>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>>>>>> California
>>>>>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly
>>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the
> exact
>>>>>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal
> Shelter
>>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special
> tag,
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a
> form."
>>>>>>>> Who
>>>>>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she
> has
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public
> place
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her
>>>>>>>> disability,
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement
>>>>>>>> officer
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog
> be
>>>>>>>> wearing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal
>>>>>>>> shelter
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by
> guide
>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA,
> that
>>>>>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt.
> Dan
>>>>>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact
> opposite?
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a
>>>>>>>> debate
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities
>>>>>>>> accompanied
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some
> other
>>>>>>>> representative of the disability community.  And perhaps they
> should
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who
> has
>>>>>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit
> bull
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> debate as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
> Dog
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on
> San
>>>>>>>>> Diego's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KGTV Channel 10.  It was a good piece and I wanted to share it
> with
>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT
> required
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places.  Some of us
> have
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining
>>>>>>>>> factor
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know
> that
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service
> dog.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story
> all
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service
>
>>>>>>>>> dog"
>>>>>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>>>>>> passengers!
>>>>>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this.  He was probably afraid
> of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and
> in
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> buildings.  It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>>>>>> menacing
>>>>>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing
> to
>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they
> go.
>>>>>>>>> 10News
>>>>>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine
> companion
>>>>>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are
> truly
>>>>>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical
> service
>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one,
> but
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble
> getting
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate
> service
>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in
>>>>>>>>> public,"
>>>>>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store
> or
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and
> growl
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> snap
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot
> more
>>>>>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told
> 10News
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which
> can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form.
> The
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on
> the
>>>>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag
> the
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to
> perform
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what
> they're
>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>> is true.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us,"
> DeSousa
>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their
> word."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog
>>>>>>>>> tags --
>>>>>>>>> 43 --  to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags,
>>>>>>>>> beating
>>>>>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls,
> and
>>>>>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their
> dog
>>>>>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,
>>>>>>>>> restaurants
>>>>>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I
>>>>>>>>> guess,"
>>>>>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it
> hurts
>>>>>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable
> by
>>>>>>>>> six
>>>>>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's
>>>>>>>>> Department
>>>>>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a
>
>>>>>>>>> con.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the
>>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This
> material
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.r
> r.co
>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40c
> ox.n
>>>>>>> et
>>>>>>>
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