[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Sat Dec 26 22:41:26 UTC 2009


I suppose that is one opinion, but including but not limited to opens the
door for interpretation.  I have a call into the DJO to clarify this
position and will offer a more authoritative  answer soon.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:28 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

albert,
    The authoritative word is from the Department of Justice which states 
that a service animal is an animal individually trained to do work or 
perform tasks for a person with a disability. It is the task oriented 
training that makes a service animal such under the law. The DOJ's Business 
Brief clearly states that, in regard to seizure disorder, a service animal 
"alerts and protects" a person with a seizure disorder. If the Department 
intended only for an alert, they would have used the conjunction "or". I 
believe the use of the "and" conjunction shows the intent of the Department 
to mean both, not either.

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


>I find that below, offered by steven earlier, includes the verbiage
> "included but not limited to" which would cover such animals in instances
> where they were trained to provide warning for a person diagnosed  and
> determined to have the disabling condition of epilepcy or some other 
> seizure
> disorder.  As steven said before, the wording can be as clear as mud. But
> with a spray bottle and a clean cloth we can see what is intended through
> the muck and mire.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> albert,
>    I am not saying that only guide dogs are legitimate service animals;
> however, the ADA does not protect animals whose only function is to alert
> someone to the onset of a seizure disorder. Though I am not an attorney, 
> so
> my opinion is only that, the ability to alert someone to the onset of a
> seizure is an innate ability, not a trained task and, as such, is not a
> service animal. If the animal is trained to perform a task when the onset 
> of
>
> a seizure is detected, such as clearing an area around the person, pulling

> a
>
> medical alert device, placing a pillow under the person's head, etc., then
> it is a service animal by definition. Similarly, an animal that comforts
> someone with an anxiety disorder simply by its mere presence, is also not 
> a
> service animal.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>>I would think that people with epilepsy and seizure disorders using a
>> service animal, and I should think the a.d.a. would disagree with your
>> position that such and animal is not protected or included in this law.
>> Are
>> you attempting to say that only dogs used as guides for the blind are the
>> only proper and legal service animals?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:00 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>    Some of the animals mentioned in this message are not service animals
>> as
>>
>> defined by the ADA and state laws; therefore, those accompanied by these
>> animals do not have the protections afforded under such laws. They may,
>> though, be protected by the FHA.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>> .
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> While we mull over what constitutes  a service animal, lets determine to
>>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns, 
>>> diabetic
>>> and seizure issues and any multitude   of reasons a medically prescribed
>>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with the
>>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>>> constitute
>>> one really?
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage  which 
>>> is
>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
>>> are
>>> being denied access.  What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>>> a.d.a., which as you  yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
>>> such
>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>>> using
>>> the same for the intended purpose?  And what of our peers who use
>>> companions
>>> for a diagnosable  condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford 
>>> them
>>> the same protections, or do they?  I think that trainers should be held
>>> to
>>
>>> a
>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum 
>>> dogs
>>> do
>>> not live through that pain again.  there is something to say for the
>>> consideration of certification  provided that a standard  of national
>>> proportions  could be meaningful.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>
>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>>
>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the 
>>> certification
>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict the
>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>>> accommodation.
>>>
>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then 
>>> would'nt
>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified 
>>> entity
>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>>
>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>>> places
>>> of public accommodation.  The fair housing amendments act already
>>> provides
>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals 
>>> in
>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>>> where
>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>>> reasonable accommodation.  The underlying problem is that these are not
>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>>> functional
>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>>
>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would 
>>> expand
>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is 
>>> specifically
>>> stated in the ADA.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
>>> are
>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>>
>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
>>> the
>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
>>> that
>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
>>> and
>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals.  Mark my 
>>> word.
>>>
>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
>>> that
>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>>> providing
>>> a service.  A support yes, a service no.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>> What is PWD?
>>>>
>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>>>> people
>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>>> those
>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification 
>>>> outfit
>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC knows
>>>> what
>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So why
>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>>> School
>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>>> Would
>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>>
>>>> CL
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>>
>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers.  If I want to call
>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can.  There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary.  The guide
>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed on.
>>>>
>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>>
>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying 
>>>> PWD.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>
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>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> urytel.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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