[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Marion & Martin swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Sun Dec 27 03:32:55 UTC 2009


Albert,
    Let us know if you get an answer that is substantially different from 
what they provide on their website concerning this.

http://ada.gov/svcanimb.htm



Fraternally yours,

Marion






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


>I suppose that is one opinion, but including but not limited to opens the
> door for interpretation.  I have a call into the DJO to clarify this
> position and will offer a more authoritative  answer soon.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:28 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> albert,
>    The authoritative word is from the Department of Justice which states
> that a service animal is an animal individually trained to do work or
> perform tasks for a person with a disability. It is the task oriented
> training that makes a service animal such under the law. The DOJ's 
> Business
> Brief clearly states that, in regard to seizure disorder, a service animal
> "alerts and protects" a person with a seizure disorder. If the Department
> intended only for an alert, they would have used the conjunction "or". I
> believe the use of the "and" conjunction shows the intent of the 
> Department
> to mean both, not either.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>>I find that below, offered by steven earlier, includes the verbiage
>> "included but not limited to" which would cover such animals in instances
>> where they were trained to provide warning for a person diagnosed  and
>> determined to have the disabling condition of epilepcy or some other
>> seizure
>> disorder.  As steven said before, the wording can be as clear as mud. But
>> with a spray bottle and a clean cloth we can see what is intended through
>> the muck and mire.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:40 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> albert,
>>    I am not saying that only guide dogs are legitimate service animals;
>> however, the ADA does not protect animals whose only function is to alert
>> someone to the onset of a seizure disorder. Though I am not an attorney,
>> so
>> my opinion is only that, the ability to alert someone to the onset of a
>> seizure is an innate ability, not a trained task and, as such, is not a
>> service animal. If the animal is trained to perform a task when the onset
>> of
>>
>> a seizure is detected, such as clearing an area around the person, 
>> pulling
>
>> a
>>
>> medical alert device, placing a pillow under the person's head, etc., 
>> then
>> it is a service animal by definition. Similarly, an animal that comforts
>> someone with an anxiety disorder simply by its mere presence, is also not
>> a
>> service animal.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>>I would think that people with epilepsy and seizure disorders using a
>>> service animal, and I should think the a.d.a. would disagree with your
>>> position that such and animal is not protected or included in this law.
>>> Are
>>> you attempting to say that only dogs used as guides for the blind are 
>>> the
>>> only proper and legal service animals?
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:00 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>    Some of the animals mentioned in this message are not service animals
>>> as
>>>
>>> defined by the ADA and state laws; therefore, those accompanied by these
>>> animals do not have the protections afforded under such laws. They may,
>>> though, be protected by the FHA.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>> While we mull over what constitutes  a service animal, lets determine 
>>>> to
>>>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
>>>> diabetic
>>>> and seizure issues and any multitude   of reasons a medically 
>>>> prescribed
>>>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with 
>>>> the
>>>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>>>> constitute
>>>> one really?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage  which
>>>> is
>>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
>>>> are
>>>> being denied access.  What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>>>> a.d.a., which as you  yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
>>>> such
>>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>>>> using
>>>> the same for the intended purpose?  And what of our peers who use
>>>> companions
>>>> for a diagnosable  condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
>>>> them
>>>> the same protections, or do they?  I think that trainers should be held
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> a
>>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
>>>> dogs
>>>> do
>>>> not live through that pain again.  there is something to say for the
>>>> consideration of certification  provided that a standard  of national
>>>> proportions  could be meaningful.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>>
>>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
>>>> certification
>>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict 
>>>> the
>>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>>>> accommodation.
>>>>
>>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
>>>> would'nt
>>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
>>>> entity
>>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>>>> places
>>>> of public accommodation.  The fair housing amendments act already
>>>> provides
>>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals
>>>> in
>>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>>>> where
>>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>>>> reasonable accommodation.  The underlying problem is that these are not
>>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>>>> functional
>>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>>>
>>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
>>>> expand
>>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
>>>> specifically
>>>> stated in the ADA.
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
>>>> are
>>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>>>
>>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
>>>> the
>>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
>>>> that
>>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
>>>> and
>>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals.  Mark my
>>>> word.
>>>>
>>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
>>>> that
>>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>>>> providing
>>>> a service.  A support yes, a service no.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is PWD?
>>>>>
>>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>>>>> people
>>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>>>> those
>>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
>>>>> outfit
>>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC 
>>>>> knows
>>>>> what
>>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So 
>>>>> why
>>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>>>> School
>>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>>>> Would
>>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>>>
>>>>> CL
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers.  If I want to call
>>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can.  There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary.  The guide
>>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed 
>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
>>>>> PWD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
>>>> urytel.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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