[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Marion & Martin
swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Sun Dec 27 03:26:30 UTC 2009
Linda,
I haven't seen the new regulations yet, as they have not yet been
approved by the Office of Management & Budget (OMB). However, NAGDU did
write a comment requesting that guide horses be looked at more closely
before taking them out of the definition.
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
> Marion,
> Does this mean that our guide horse using friends won't be able to use
> them anymore? You know, people like Ann with Panda and my friend in
> Georgia who is training a miniature horse for her guide. Will you post the
> new ADA regs about what is a service animal for us if you get them.
> thanks.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> PS: I decided to start using my "other" name of Lyn instead of Linda. Too
> many "Linda-sounding" names!(grin!)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 9:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Albert,
>> As for ponies and other animals, the new regulations that have been
>> published by the DOJ to the Office of Budget & Management for approval
>> would effectively limit the definition of a service animal to only dogs.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 4:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> Well it is a place to grow from. I agree with you in that it leaves much
>>> room for improvement, and it does sort of pigeon whole things in a clear
>>> cut
>>> fashion, when there is nothing clear cut about service animals. It also
>>> only
>>> speaks of dogs, what of ponies, or other animals which would serve other
>>> purposes. Is not defining which animals serve a purpose and which needs
>>> are
>>> best addressed by animals in addition to or as a replacement for
>>> medication
>>> something which would in some instances depend upon the individuals
>>> preference or desired results achieved by specific animals not always
>>> considered the norm when we look at service animals. We need to start
>>> somewhere that is for sure.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:26 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>> Seizure alert, diabetic alert etc. do fall within the realm of service
>>> providing animals, and too are specifically trained, or rather can be
>>> specifically trained.
>>>
>>> Plese read on. Although I don't necessarily agree with the description
>>> for
>>> dog guides, it is teh point I am trying to make.
>>>
>>> Types of Service Dogs
>>>
>>> GUIDE DOGS
>>>
>>> Guide Dogs are trained to assist visually impaired handlers in
>>> navigating
>>>
>>> their physical environment. In addition to the usual obedience commands,
>>>
>>> they respond when placed in a guide dog harness, to commands specific
>>> to
>>>
>>> the sight-impaired user such as "left," "right," "slow down," and
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Over a dozen schools across the country offer service dogs to the
>>> legally
>>>
>>> blind. These schools are residential facilities, and virtually all of
>>>
>>> them pay for all expenses connected with training, including plane fare,
>>>
>>> dormitory housing, food, and so on. Typically, first-time students train
>>>
>>> for four weeks; after that, experienced students stay for two to three
>>>
>>> weeks, at the school's discretion. The dogs are rigorously trained and
>>>
>>> selected. As skilled as these dogs are, they are not designed to replace
>>>
>>> one's own mobility skills. Consequently, most schools require their
>>>
>>> students to have completed a cane mobility program "on the outside"
>>> before
>>>
>>> attending the school for training. For more information on Guide Dogs or
>>>
>>> on schools in your area, contact your local chapter of the National
>>>
>>> Federation for the Blind, or your state representative of the American
>>>
>>> Council for the Blind.
>>>
>>> HEARING DOGS
>>>
>>> Hearing Dogs are trained to alert the hearing impaired handler to
>>> specific
>>>
>>> sounds in the environment. For example, at the sound of a doorbell, a
>>>
>>> Hearing Dog may run back and forth between the door and the disabled
>>>
>>> handler, thus notifying the handler that someone is at the door. When
>>>
>>> one's alarm clock rings, a Hearing Dog may paw its disabled handler and
>>>
>>> wiggle around until the handler wakes up. Some sleeping handlers prefer
>>> a
>>>
>>> gentler approach to waking up, such as a lick of the hand or face. In
>>>
>>> response to other audible stimuli, a hearing dog may offer a nonspecific
>>>
>>> alerting behavior such as putting a paw on the knee of the disabled
>>> handler,
>>>
>>> or placing the paw on the handler's foot and gently pressing down.
>>>
>>> MOBILITY ASSISTANCE DOGS
>>>
>>> Mobility Assistance Dogs are trained to assist individuals with
>>>
>>> impairments of mobility or movement. For those handlers who are
>>>
>>> challenged in areas of dexterity or strength, a Mobility Dog may assist
>>>
>>> with carrying objects, picking up dropped items, opening or closing
>>> doors,
>>>
>>> turning lights off or on, retrieving items such as the telephone in
>>> cases
>>>
>>> of emergency, helping the handler out of bed or with getting dressed,
>>>
>>> assisting with transfers to and from a wheelchair, pulling a wheelchair,
>>>
>>> or helping the person to conserve energy by towing them along while they
>>> walk.
>>>
>>> For handlers who have difficulties with balance, a Mobility Dog may
>>> assist
>>>
>>> by stabilizing the handler while they rise from a seated position,
>>>
>>> preventing falls by bracing against the handler, preventing falls by
>>>
>>> bumping a handler's foot to a corrected position, or preventing falls by
>>>
>>> circling around the handler to keep them from being bumped by others,
>>>
>>> helping the handler recover when a fall does occur, and providing rhythm
>>>
>>> and timing to the gait of a person whose movements are not completely in
>>>
>>> their control.
>>>
>>> Medical Alert Dogs are trained to notify their disabled handlers to a
>>>
>>> change in physiologic status.
>>>
>>> Diabetic Alert Dogs alert to a change in the
>>>
>>> blood-glucose levels of their diabetic handler.
>>>
>>> Migraine Alert Dogs alert
>>>
>>> to an oncoming migraine headache in their susceptible handler.
>>>
>>> Seizure Alert Dogs alert to oncoming seizures in their epileptic
>>> handler.
>>>
>>> Asthma Alert Dogs alert to impending asthma attacks in their asthmatic
>>> handler.
>>>
>>> Psychiatric Alert Dogs alert to mood cycling in bipolar handlers, or
>>>
>>> impending panic and anxiety attacks in handlers with these conditions.
>>> No
>>>
>>> one knows for certain what cue a Medical Alert Dog is responding to when
>>>
>>> the alerting behavior is displayed. Some speculate that the dog
>>> perceives
>>>
>>> a change in the handler's scent or subtle behavioral clues.
>>>
>>> The ability of a Medical Alert Dog to provide advance warning of a
>>>
>>> physiologic event is critical to disability management. At times this
>>>
>>> kind of intervention is even life-saving, such as when a Seizure Alert
>>> Dog
>>>
>>> is able to clear the epileptic handler's airway during a seizure and
>>> then
>>>
>>> go on to retrieve the telephone and dial 911 with his nose.
>>>
>>> Psychiatric Service Dogs are trained to assist persons living with
>>>
>>> psychiatric disabilities.
>>>
>>> For persons living with Major Depression, a Psychiatric Service Dog may
>>> be
>>>
>>> trained to: assist in waking the person each morning; bring medications
>>> to
>>>
>>> the disabled handler; assist with household chores such as laundry; help
>>>
>>> the person get out of the house and into public or social settings; be
>>>
>>> trained to 'hug' or 'stay' with the disabled handler during acute
>>>
>>> emotional crises.
>>>
>>> For persons living with Bipolar Disorder, a Psychiatric Service Dog may
>>>
>>> alert to impending mania. Akin to 'biofeedback' this advance warning
>>>
>>> provides the handler with self-awareness, buys critical time so that she
>>>
>>> may get herself to a safe place, contact her physician, make a
>>> medication
>>>
>>> adjustment and/or utilize cognitive behavioral skills in an effort to
>>>
>>> attenuate the magnitude and impact of a manic episode.
>>>
>>> For persons living with Schizophrenia, a Psychiatric Service Dog may
>>>
>>> assist the handler in differentiating between sounds that are real or
>>>
>>> unreal, by observing the dog's reaction to the perceived stimuli. These
>>>
>>> dogs may also help a handler who is feeling disoriented, by providing a
>>>
>>> secure presence and, on command, taking the person home.
>>>
>>> For persons living with Dissociative Identity Disorder, a Psychiatric
>>>
>>> Service Dog may alert to dissociation, a 'personality' shift, or assist
>>>
>>> the handler with feelings of disorientation or confusion.
>>>
>>> For persons living with Panic Disorder or Anxiety Disorder, a
>>> Psychiatric
>>>
>>> Service Dog may alert to oncoming attacks, as well as to stay with the
>>>
>>> handler throughout the duration of the attack. The dog may be trained to
>>>
>>> use her body to warm the handler, in case of a drop in body temperature
>>>
>>> and chills that sometimes accompany such attacks.
>>>
>>> For persons living with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), a
>>>
>>> Psychiatric Service Dog may be trained to assist with hypervigilence and
>>>
>>> differentiating real from unreal threats. Additionally, the dog may be
>>>
>>> trained to provide emotional support to the handler who has just
>>>
>>> experienced a trigger-stimulus. In cases of stimulus-induced
>>>
>>> dissociation, the dog may be trained to bring the handler to a safer
>>>
>>> place, or assist the handler with staying present.
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>> While we mull over what constitutes a service animal, lets determine
>>>> to
>>>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
>>>> diabetic
>>>> and seizure issues and any multitude of reasons a medically
>>>> prescribed
>>>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with
>>>> the
>>>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>>>> constitute
>>>> one really?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage which
>>>> is
>>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
>>>> are
>>>> being denied access. What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>>>> a.d.a., which as you yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
>>>> such
>>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>>>> using
>>>> the same for the intended purpose? And what of our peers who use
>>>> companions
>>>> for a diagnosable condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
>>>> them
>>>> the same protections, or do they? I think that trainers should be held
>>>> to
>>>> a
>>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
>>>> dogs
>>>> do
>>>> not live through that pain again. there is something to say for the
>>>> consideration of certification provided that a standard of national
>>>> proportions could be meaningful.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>>
>>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
>>>> certification
>>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict
>>>> the
>>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>>>> accommodation.
>>>>
>>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
>>>> would'nt
>>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
>>>> entity
>>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>>>
>>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>>>> places
>>>> of public accommodation. The fair housing amendments act already
>>>> provides
>>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals
>>>> in
>>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>>>> where
>>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>>>> reasonable accommodation. The underlying problem is that these are not
>>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>>>> functional
>>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>>>
>>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
>>>> expand
>>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
>>>> specifically
>>>> stated in the ADA.
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
>>>> are
>>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>>>
>>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
>>>> the
>>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
>>>> that
>>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
>>>> and
>>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals. Mark my
>>>> word.
>>>>
>>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
>>>> that
>>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>>>> providing
>>>> a service. A support yes, a service no.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is PWD?
>>>>>
>>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>>>>> people
>>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>>>> those
>>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
>>>>> outfit
>>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC
>>>>> knows
>>>>> what
>>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So
>>>>> why
>>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>>>> School
>>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>>>> Would
>>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>>>
>>>>> CL
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers. If I want to call
>>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can. There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary. The guide
>>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed
>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
>>>>> PWD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>
>>
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