[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Linda Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sun Dec 27 18:07:11 UTC 2009
Thanks, Marion.
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
> Linda,
> I haven't seen the new regulations yet, as they have not yet been
> approved by the Office of Management & Budget (OMB). However, NAGDU did
> write a comment requesting that guide horses be looked at more closely
> before taking them out of the definition.
>
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Marion,
>> Does this mean that our guide horse using friends won't be able to use
>> them anymore? You know, people like Ann with Panda and my friend in
>> Georgia who is training a miniature horse for her guide. Will you post
>> the new ADA regs about what is a service animal for us if you get them.
>> thanks.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> PS: I decided to start using my "other" name of Lyn instead of Linda.
>> Too many "Linda-sounding" names!(grin!)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 9:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> Albert,
>>> As for ponies and other animals, the new regulations that have been
>>> published by the DOJ to the Office of Budget & Management for approval
>>> would effectively limit the definition of a service animal to only dogs.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 4:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well it is a place to grow from. I agree with you in that it leaves
>>>> much
>>>> room for improvement, and it does sort of pigeon whole things in a
>>>> clear cut
>>>> fashion, when there is nothing clear cut about service animals. It also
>>>> only
>>>> speaks of dogs, what of ponies, or other animals which would serve
>>>> other
>>>> purposes. Is not defining which animals serve a purpose and which needs
>>>> are
>>>> best addressed by animals in addition to or as a replacement for
>>>> medication
>>>> something which would in some instances depend upon the individuals
>>>> preference or desired results achieved by specific animals not always
>>>> considered the norm when we look at service animals. We need to start
>>>> somewhere that is for sure.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:26 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> Seizure alert, diabetic alert etc. do fall within the realm of service
>>>> providing animals, and too are specifically trained, or rather can be
>>>> specifically trained.
>>>>
>>>> Plese read on. Although I don't necessarily agree with the description
>>>> for
>>>> dog guides, it is teh point I am trying to make.
>>>>
>>>> Types of Service Dogs
>>>>
>>>> GUIDE DOGS
>>>>
>>>> Guide Dogs are trained to assist visually impaired handlers in
>>>> navigating
>>>>
>>>> their physical environment. In addition to the usual obedience
>>>> commands,
>>>>
>>>> they respond when placed in a guide dog harness, to commands
>>>> specific to
>>>>
>>>> the sight-impaired user such as "left," "right," "slow down," and
>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> Over a dozen schools across the country offer service dogs to the
>>>> legally
>>>>
>>>> blind. These schools are residential facilities, and virtually all of
>>>>
>>>> them pay for all expenses connected with training, including plane
>>>> fare,
>>>>
>>>> dormitory housing, food, and so on. Typically, first-time students
>>>> train
>>>>
>>>> for four weeks; after that, experienced students stay for two to three
>>>>
>>>> weeks, at the school's discretion. The dogs are rigorously trained and
>>>>
>>>> selected. As skilled as these dogs are, they are not designed to
>>>> replace
>>>>
>>>> one's own mobility skills. Consequently, most schools require their
>>>>
>>>> students to have completed a cane mobility program "on the outside"
>>>> before
>>>>
>>>> attending the school for training. For more information on Guide Dogs
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>> on schools in your area, contact your local chapter of the National
>>>>
>>>> Federation for the Blind, or your state representative of the American
>>>>
>>>> Council for the Blind.
>>>>
>>>> HEARING DOGS
>>>>
>>>> Hearing Dogs are trained to alert the hearing impaired handler to
>>>> specific
>>>>
>>>> sounds in the environment. For example, at the sound of a doorbell, a
>>>>
>>>> Hearing Dog may run back and forth between the door and the disabled
>>>>
>>>> handler, thus notifying the handler that someone is at the door. When
>>>>
>>>> one's alarm clock rings, a Hearing Dog may paw its disabled handler and
>>>>
>>>> wiggle around until the handler wakes up. Some sleeping handlers prefer
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> gentler approach to waking up, such as a lick of the hand or face. In
>>>>
>>>> response to other audible stimuli, a hearing dog may offer a
>>>> nonspecific
>>>>
>>>> alerting behavior such as putting a paw on the knee of the disabled
>>>> handler,
>>>>
>>>> or placing the paw on the handler's foot and gently pressing down.
>>>>
>>>> MOBILITY ASSISTANCE DOGS
>>>>
>>>> Mobility Assistance Dogs are trained to assist individuals with
>>>>
>>>> impairments of mobility or movement. For those handlers who are
>>>>
>>>> challenged in areas of dexterity or strength, a Mobility Dog may assist
>>>>
>>>> with carrying objects, picking up dropped items, opening or closing
>>>> doors,
>>>>
>>>> turning lights off or on, retrieving items such as the telephone in
>>>> cases
>>>>
>>>> of emergency, helping the handler out of bed or with getting dressed,
>>>>
>>>> assisting with transfers to and from a wheelchair, pulling a
>>>> wheelchair,
>>>>
>>>> or helping the person to conserve energy by towing them along while
>>>> they
>>>> walk.
>>>>
>>>> For handlers who have difficulties with balance, a Mobility Dog may
>>>> assist
>>>>
>>>> by stabilizing the handler while they rise from a seated position,
>>>>
>>>> preventing falls by bracing against the handler, preventing falls by
>>>>
>>>> bumping a handler's foot to a corrected position, or preventing falls
>>>> by
>>>>
>>>> circling around the handler to keep them from being bumped by others,
>>>>
>>>> helping the handler recover when a fall does occur, and providing
>>>> rhythm
>>>>
>>>> and timing to the gait of a person whose movements are not completely
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> their control.
>>>>
>>>> Medical Alert Dogs are trained to notify their disabled handlers to a
>>>>
>>>> change in physiologic status.
>>>>
>>>> Diabetic Alert Dogs alert to a change in the
>>>>
>>>> blood-glucose levels of their diabetic handler.
>>>>
>>>> Migraine Alert Dogs alert
>>>>
>>>> to an oncoming migraine headache in their susceptible handler.
>>>>
>>>> Seizure Alert Dogs alert to oncoming seizures in their epileptic
>>>> handler.
>>>>
>>>> Asthma Alert Dogs alert to impending asthma attacks in their asthmatic
>>>> handler.
>>>>
>>>> Psychiatric Alert Dogs alert to mood cycling in bipolar handlers, or
>>>>
>>>> impending panic and anxiety attacks in handlers with these conditions.
>>>> No
>>>>
>>>> one knows for certain what cue a Medical Alert Dog is responding to
>>>> when
>>>>
>>>> the alerting behavior is displayed. Some speculate that the dog
>>>> perceives
>>>>
>>>> a change in the handler's scent or subtle behavioral clues.
>>>>
>>>> The ability of a Medical Alert Dog to provide advance warning of a
>>>>
>>>> physiologic event is critical to disability management. At times this
>>>>
>>>> kind of intervention is even life-saving, such as when a Seizure Alert
>>>> Dog
>>>>
>>>> is able to clear the epileptic handler's airway during a seizure and
>>>> then
>>>>
>>>> go on to retrieve the telephone and dial 911 with his nose.
>>>>
>>>> Psychiatric Service Dogs are trained to assist persons living with
>>>>
>>>> psychiatric disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> For persons living with Major Depression, a Psychiatric Service Dog may
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>> trained to: assist in waking the person each morning; bring medications
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> the disabled handler; assist with household chores such as laundry;
>>>> help
>>>>
>>>> the person get out of the house and into public or social settings; be
>>>>
>>>> trained to 'hug' or 'stay' with the disabled handler during acute
>>>>
>>>> emotional crises.
>>>>
>>>> For persons living with Bipolar Disorder, a Psychiatric Service Dog may
>>>>
>>>> alert to impending mania. Akin to 'biofeedback' this advance warning
>>>>
>>>> provides the handler with self-awareness, buys critical time so that
>>>> she
>>>>
>>>> may get herself to a safe place, contact her physician, make a
>>>> medication
>>>>
>>>> adjustment and/or utilize cognitive behavioral skills in an effort to
>>>>
>>>> attenuate the magnitude and impact of a manic episode.
>>>>
>>>> For persons living with Schizophrenia, a Psychiatric Service Dog may
>>>>
>>>> assist the handler in differentiating between sounds that are real or
>>>>
>>>> unreal, by observing the dog's reaction to the perceived stimuli. These
>>>>
>>>> dogs may also help a handler who is feeling disoriented, by providing a
>>>>
>>>> secure presence and, on command, taking the person home.
>>>>
>>>> For persons living with Dissociative Identity Disorder, a Psychiatric
>>>>
>>>> Service Dog may alert to dissociation, a 'personality' shift, or assist
>>>>
>>>> the handler with feelings of disorientation or confusion.
>>>>
>>>> For persons living with Panic Disorder or Anxiety Disorder, a
>>>> Psychiatric
>>>>
>>>> Service Dog may alert to oncoming attacks, as well as to stay with the
>>>>
>>>> handler throughout the duration of the attack. The dog may be trained
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> use her body to warm the handler, in case of a drop in body temperature
>>>>
>>>> and chills that sometimes accompany such attacks.
>>>>
>>>> For persons living with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), a
>>>>
>>>> Psychiatric Service Dog may be trained to assist with hypervigilence
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> differentiating real from unreal threats. Additionally, the dog may be
>>>>
>>>> trained to provide emotional support to the handler who has just
>>>>
>>>> experienced a trigger-stimulus. In cases of stimulus-induced
>>>>
>>>> dissociation, the dog may be trained to bring the handler to a safer
>>>>
>>>> place, or assist the handler with staying present.
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> While we mull over what constitutes a service animal, lets determine
>>>>> to
>>>>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
>>>>> diabetic
>>>>> and seizure issues and any multitude of reasons a medically
>>>>> prescribed
>>>>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with
>>>>> the
>>>>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>>>>> constitute
>>>>> one really?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage which
>>>>> is
>>>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
>>>>> are
>>>>> being denied access. What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>>>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in
>>>>> the
>>>>> a.d.a., which as you yourself presented, can be interpreted to
>>>>> prevent
>>>>> such
>>>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>>>>> using
>>>>> the same for the intended purpose? And what of our peers who use
>>>>> companions
>>>>> for a diagnosable condition where a companion animal/service animal
>>>>> is
>>>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
>>>>> them
>>>>> the same protections, or do they? I think that trainers should be
>>>>> held to
>>>>> a
>>>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> do
>>>>> not live through that pain again. there is something to say for the
>>>>> consideration of certification provided that a standard of national
>>>>> proportions could be meaningful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>>>
>>>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
>>>>> certification
>>>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict
>>>>> the
>>>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>>>>> accommodation.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed
>>>>> on
>>>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
>>>>> would'nt
>>>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
>>>>> entity
>>>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>>>>> places
>>>>> of public accommodation. The fair housing amendments act already
>>>>> provides
>>>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals
>>>>> in
>>>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>>>>> where
>>>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>>>>> reasonable accommodation. The underlying problem is that these are
>>>>> not
>>>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>>>>> functional
>>>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a
>>>>> professional
>>>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
>>>>> expand
>>>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>>>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
>>>>> specifically
>>>>> stated in the ADA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
>>>>> are
>>>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service
>>>>> animals,
>>>>> the
>>>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention
>>>>> in
>>>>> that
>>>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to
>>>>> expand
>>>>> and
>>>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals. Mark my
>>>>> word.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further
>>>>> understand
>>>>> that
>>>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>>>>> providing
>>>>> a service. A support yes, a service no.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is PWD?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
>>>>>> outfit
>>>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>>>>> School
>>>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified
>>>>>> trainers?
>>>>>> Would
>>>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers. If I want to call
>>>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can. There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary. The guide
>>>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed
>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
>>>>>> PWD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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