[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Tue Dec 29 19:45:09 UTC 2009

I am not sure what costs would ne incurred, as I understand and as has been
my experience, there is no cost for securing a guide dog.  I am new to
blindness and assume that most if not all organizations provide guides free
of charge. I agree with you that the certification process if it is to be,
must be determined independently and not by any individual school, but by a
seasoned group of professionals, end users and others with the skill set
sufficient to create a certification  program which would better ensure well
trained guides for those who need them. I see how certification has impacted
so many other areas professionally, and I am inclined to feel that
certification would not set anyone back. It would all be in how we as a
consumer roup direct that so as to ensure it is empowering and promising for
all.  I also do not see how this would impact our taxes since I do not
believe the certification of mobility instructors and teachers and others is
a cost of those looking for the certification and education sufficient
enough to be considered a professional in their respective arenas. I see how
the state protections in Florida are a good basis to grow from, but as
recently shared end users are still being denied access to stores and
transportation. We may need to work on educating all people about the ADA
rather then worrying about trainers being denied access. Thanks.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:10 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Albert,

I will freely admit that the word "certification" scares the crap out of me.

All the issues that Buddy, Steve, Rox'e, Linda and Marion have brought up 
are my issues as well.

I am like buddy, in that I am not actually opposed to certification, but 
rather the implementation of that certification.   As of yet I have not seen

any sort of proposed scheme for certification that is fair, unbiased and 
would not place a burden on the end user or taxpayers.  If someone can 
convince me that their program for implementing certification will not cost 
more money and will not be biased I'll sign up.  Until then I'm a "no 
certification" gal.

I suppose my very serious lack of enthusiasm of certification comes from the

knowledge of previous government and blindness agency efforts to "help" the 
blind or "enhance" our opportunities or some such other stupidity.  I am not

old enough to have been around during the times of protests, but I am old 
enough to know lots of other blind people who were.   Agencies offering 
accreditation or approval of various aspects of blindness services do not 
have a good track record.  Really I like the current laws and would rather 
live with the minor inconveniencies of them than come up with new ones that 
would quite possibly take us back 50 years in personal freedoms for blind 
people.

JMO, a'course
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

> Lol, yeah sign me up for a self trained dog who can pour a scotch.  Well 
> why
> is there an assumption that certification will be granted by individual
> schools, rather then an independent  body comprised of end users an
> professionals from the field?  Anything different would most certainly
> appear self serving  for those schools to determined who is or is not a
> certified trainer.  I am not supporting that dogs be certified, but that 
> the
> trainer, much like others in the field of mobility are certified and 
> trained
> either according to national, or as seems to be the preference, a state
> standard? Again, I would draw attention to the need for a guide to be
> introduced and worked in those everyday environments which they will
> inevitably come up against once they are passed onto a handler.  Is that 
> not
> proper?  I mean there is significant training that goes into a guide prior
> to even venturing out into the public? Am I correct in that position? I am
> not sure why it would seem odd to want our guides to be sufficiently 
> trained
> in areas where public accommodation  as defined under the ADA are 
> afforded?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of The Pawpower Pack
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:04 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Albert,
>
> Just to clarify; my dog is not self-trained.  She did not train
> herself.  If you ever find a dog who can train itself, let me know.
> It'd save me quite a bit of work.  Grin!
>
> Many owner trainers actually don't really begin public access training
> for quite some time.  I have known an owner trainer to train the guide
> work on streets and in places where the general public is allowed to
> bring their pets.  In some cities such as Portland Oregon, dogs are
> allowed on pubtrans.
>
> I don't appose giving training staff the right to bring pups in
> training into places of public accommodation.
>
> There are two problems I have with this law, the first is the word
> "certified."  I think it opens up a huge can of worms, and is a
> slippery slope from certifying trainers to certifying teams.  I think
> it self-serving to allow the programs to certify their own trainers
> and also as an owner trainer I would rather that the programs not be
> involved in certifying my dog.
> My second issue with this legislation is as Marion said.  I do not
> think the ADA which is a law written to protect the civil rights of
> persons with disabilities is the place to address the rights of
> largely non-disabled trainers.
>
>
> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
> earn it and win it in every generation."
> -- Coretta Scott King
> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>
> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>
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