[nagdu] owner training was hi

Julie J. jlcrane at alltel.net
Wed Feb 4 12:48:42 UTC 2009 

Toni,

When I decided to retire Belle after she had only been working for such a 
short time, there was a lot of guilt.  I did feel like I had done something 
wrong or could have at least done something better.  I can't compare that to 
what sort of feelings accompany retiring a young dog from a program.  I 
suppose at least some of it would be similar.

The actual process of not working her anymore was not particularly difficult 
for me.  I won't say it was easy or that I didn't have days when I would 
second guess my decision, but overall the retirement process was not that 
hard.  I think this was based on two main factors.  She and I never had an 
incredibly close bond.  This may very well be the root reason why it didn't 
work out for the long term.  She worked because I asked her to, not because 
it was her life's passion.  The second thing that made the decision not to 
work her any more  a bit easier is that I was still going to have her at 
home as a pet.  I was only giving up  her guiding, not her.

For me placing one of my dogs in a different home is very, very difficult. 
I made the decision with both Belle and Monty that whatever happens with 
their guide dog careers, they will always have a home here.  If for some 
reason Monty doesn't work out as a guide, he will continue to live here as a 
pet and I will use my cane  for a very long time.

Everyone has their own approach to owner training, this is just mine.  It's 
what I am comfortable with and what works for me.

HTH
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Toni Whaley" <blind_treasurer at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] owner training was hi


> Hello!
>
> I've never trained my own guide dog. But there's one thing I've wondered
> about. Two of my eight dogs didn't work out as guide dogs, and another of
> them decided that guide dog work wasn't right for him after two and a half
> years of work. The process of making the decision to "retire" the dog as a
> guide (in this case, with the input from the school) is difficult. At one
> level you are already attached to the dog which mmakes it difficult to
> decide to part with it. However, as one director of training told me many
> years ago, with respect to a guide dog love has nothing to do with it. the
> main questions are do you trust the dog and are you safe? The other side 
> of
> this is that your attachment and the effort which is put into developing a
> working relationship with the dog, makes you prone to ignoring the signs
> that things aren't going well. Once you can accept this, you oftenn tend 
> to
> start blaming yourself. "What have I done wrong to lead this dog astray?" 
> It
> would seem to be that if you are training your own dog from scratch, you
> have even more invested in the process and relationship. Does this then 
> make
> it difficult to recognize after 18 months into the training, for example,
> to recognize that either this dog will not make a good guide or you and 
> the
> dog are not a good match?
>
> I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't traing their own dogs. What 
> I'm
> trying to say is that many things have to be considered before embarking 
> on
> this endeavor.
>
> Toni whaley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:36 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] owner training was hi
>
> I want to add something to Julie's caveats on owner training, the biggy
> for me.  Even after one has picked a dog, it can turn out that the dog is
> not suited to be a guide.  It may find the work too stressful, or not fun,
> once it gets hard.  The same thing happens with school-trained dogs, but a
> fair number of the unsuitable dogs have been dropped out by the time they
> get to the student.  It's not me that's spent months working with a lovely
> dog, only to figure out that it will be happier as a pet.
> Of course, dogs can still quit after they've started their real work as
> guides, but if they've made it through the first few months of training, I
> think one has a better chance that the dog will go on with it.
> Hope this makes sense; I'm not sure I've said it very well.
> Tracy
>
>> Yes and yes.
>>
>> Please refer to the messages from Mardi recently.  she is in the process
>> of
>> finding a dog to train.  Not every dog is going to make a good guide dog
>> candidate.  sometimes you have to evaluate quite a few before the right
>> one
>> comes along.  There are transportation expenses, veterinary in depth
>> evaluations for each dog you decide to train, equipment, incidental
>> training
>> costs etc.  It adds up.  I probably looked at 30 dogs before settling on
>> my
>> final choice this last time.  I spent almost $500 just to go look at 
>> dogs.
>>
>> The training time varies depending on the readiness of the dog and the
>> abilities of the handler.  At a minimum you can expect to be training
>> daily
>> for four months.  I start with younger dogs that need more basic 
>> obedience
>> and they take longer.  If you start with a puppy it could take two years.
>> Whatever age dog you start with you can expect to spend a minimum of 30
>> minutes training every day.  In addition to that time you will also need
>> to
>> spend time exercising the dog, grooming and providing basic care.
>>
>> Obviously when you begin this process the dog is not a guide dog. It
>> cannot
>> go everywhere you go.  If you work or have other obligations arrangements
>> will have to be made for the care of the dog, until it's training is
>> adequate to accompany you.
>>
>> Anyhow, that is the very short version of time and money and owner
>> training.
>> I'm happy to talk more about it if you have more questions.
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "kl" <FuzzyPurpleCouch at neo.rr.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] hi
>>
>>
>>> Does it take a lot of time. Doe it cost a lot. I would love to talk to
>>> you
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 7:32 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] hi
>>>
>>> It's Tami that has the owner trained poodle in Oregon.
>>>
>>> Are you interested in owner training?  There are several people on this
>>> list
>>>
>>> who have owner trained our guide dogs, including me. I'd be happy to
>>> talk
>>> to
>>>
>>> you about it.  Or you can search the list archives.  There's quite a bit
>>> of
>>> info there.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "kl" <FuzzyPurpleCouch at neo.rr.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] hi
>>>
>>>
>>>> The person who has the owner trained poodle and who lives in orgon.
>>>> Will
>>>> you
>>>> e/mail me off list.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 5:06 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] hi
>>>>
>>>> Kl,
>>>>
>>>> Hi, and welcome!  I live in Oregon and am working with my owner-trained
>>>> poodle guide Mitzi.  Or learning to work with her, to be more accurate.
>>>> Our
>>>> team building progress has been spotty due to life stuff, so I'm still
>>>> a
>>>> complete dunce quite a bit of the time.  Sigh.  I was worried there for
>>>> awhile that the disruption in our work and in my progress as a guide
>>>> dog
>>>> user would ruin her and waste all the time and effort we both put in so
>>>> that
>>>> she would be ready to put up with my bumbling efforts to change roles,
>>>> but
>>>> she's doing quite well.  Whew!
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, sorry to hear about your voc rehab problems.  I've been there,
>>>> too,
>>>> only I had to live in their housing across the state from where I lived
>>>> at
>>>> the time to get some living skills training....  So that was where I
>>>> discovered how incredibly awful people who work with the blind (the
>>>> help
>>>> us,
>>>> of course!) can be.  I hope you are able to get what you need for your
>>>> vocation even though you don't have case with your state's agency.
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of kl
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:47 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] hi
>>>>
>>>> Hi I am in ohio. I have had some problems with my rehab counselor. I
>>>> no
>>>> longer have a case open with thim.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Ron Davidson
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:21 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] hi
>>>>
>>>> Julie is right every state has rehabilitation services that include O&M
>>>> training. If you are considering a dog most schools require you have
>>>> mastered your O&M skills and can travel safely by cane before
>>>> proceeding
>>>> to
>>>> get a guide dog. You will always from time to time use your cane and
>>>> some
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>> the cane skills coincide with dog handling skills and techniques. What
>>>> state
>>>>
>>>> are you from?
>>>>
>>>>
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