[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policydoesnotdiscriminate

Sun Feb 22 00:53:01 UTC 2009

For what it's worth, I've heard that center students leave their dogs
in an office and the dogs are checked on frequently throughout the
day. The student can still visit their dog between classes. Again, I
don't have first hand knowledge of this, but it's what I've read from
other NFB center students in the last few years. When I went to and
graduated from the CCB in 1999, they were still using the perhaps
older model, of allowing the student to use their dog as much or as
little as they wanted throughout the day, except perhaps on O&M in the
beginning anyway. Now days, with the current NFB center policy
regarding dog guides, I'm not sure I'd send a dog user there. I'd be
more likely to send them to a center like Criss Cole in Texas than I
would to an NFB center. at least at Criss Cole, dog users are allowed
to use their dogs 4 out of the 8 hours of the training day.

Jmt,
Wayne

On 2/21/09, Marion & Martin <swampfox1833 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Dan,
>     I'm not sure if you have the entire picture correct. I don't think the
> basis of this law suit was that the student could not bring the dog into the
> center. I believe the suit was that the student wanted to be accompanied by
> her guide dog during training and not be required to take cane travel
> classes. The question was posed on another list and I wrote a message in
> reply. Pasted below is my message.
>
> Shannon,
>     I will refer back to my earlier message regarding whether or not schools
> require O&M instruction before being accepted for training. As to your other
> question about substituting one O&M instruction for another, perhaps an
> analogy from our mutual experience will help.
>     I notice you have an MSW. I have an MS in Mental Health Counseling. In
> my undergraduate program I took a Research Methods class. I also took a
> Research Methods class in graduate school. now, I could have argued with the
> school that I had already had Research Methods and didn't need to take it
> again. Of course, my arguments would not have been accepted as the
> requirement to take their class is part of their program. Furthermore, the
> level, scope, and complexity of the class was very different in graduate
> school than it was in undergraduate classes. Can you understand how this
> applies to this issue?
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog
> policydoesnotdiscriminate
>
>
>> The Iowa Center, I presume, is in the United States and there is an ADA
>> and
>> state laws here, it's not an island unto itself.
>>
>> If the Iowa Center were called the Iowa Cane Center, and only cane
>> training
>> and no other skill were offered, than maybe I could see it.  Still I would
>> advocate for the dog being allowed to accompany the individual on the
>> premises.
>>
>> Laws aren't just made for the rest of the world, blind training centers
>> must
>> abide by them, too.
>>
>> Referring to the dog as a visual aid  is misleading.  Obviously, the dog
>> sees, if the dogs were b lined we probably wouldn't be using them--smile.
>> Every guide dog program teaches us that we're supposed to give commands to
>> our dogs, I assume.
>>
>> The guide dog issue, or rather what I perceive the NFB leadership's
>> approach
>> to the guide dog issue, is the one serious divergence I have with the
>> Federation.  This is from someone who got involved when he was a
>> teen-ager.
>>
>> Well, also I'm not favorably inclined to the NFB's position on audible
>> pedestrian signals, also, but that's another subject.
>>
>> The obsession with white cane travel and the tacit implication that those
>> who don't use a cane are somehow less capable, together with what I've
>> seen
>> as a tendency to discourage people from saying anything glowing about the
>> dog while glorifying the cane doesn't sit well with me.
>>
>> The guide dog and the cane are different mobility aids.  I personally
>> believe the dog to be superior for my situation and my type of travel,
>> There are things I can do easily with a dog that I would be hard-pressed
>> to
>> do with a cane, such as cross streets in a straight  line.
>> Anyway, I've gone a bit beyond the question you posed, Rebecca.  My short
>> answer is that, as I said state rehab centers and even NFB centers should,
>> and in my opinion, must accommodate access with a guide dog.  I view it as
>> an access issue and access denial.  Could it be  that some people
>> discourage
>> the use of guide dogs because they, the dogs,  see and for no other
>> reason?
>> I'm not sure that's true, but I'm posing the question to stir up the pot a
>> bit.
>> My personal approach to life isn't to prove that I'm able to do things all
>> the time independently, I mean without help.
>>
>> I would say that as an adult, I do have some idea of what my skills are
>> and
>> if I felt my cane skills are adequate, wanted to work my dog, and received
>>
>> a
>> closed-minded  access denial, I would be loathe to patronize such a
>> program.
>> What would happen if I just wanted to attend such a program, for say, my
>> computer skills?
>>
>> Now, for the record, nothing in this post is meant to cast aspersions on
>> any
>> of my list friends, these are just my opinions, strongly held ones, of
>> course.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Dan W.
>>
>>
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>
>
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