[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does notdiscriminate

Sun Feb 22 02:53:05 UTC 2009

then, have different curricula for those who have been blind for a long time 
and those who are newly blind.

margo and Elmo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
notdiscriminate

> but again you are blind and have always been blind.
>
> Julie Phillipson
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Margo and Elmo" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
> not discriminate
>
>
>> and my guide dog doesn't hide my blindness either.
>>
>> I still have to know where I'm going.  I still go places.
>>
>> margo and Elmo
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
>> not
>> discriminate
>>
>>
>>> Just that, it undeniably says I am blind and I can't and won't hide it.
>>> Some people want to carry a folding cane and put it away whenever
>>> possible.  The long white cane makes that not possible.  For many people
>>> carrying that cane is tied to their own self acceptance of their
>>> blindness.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 10:08 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>>>>What exactly do you mean by "the cane is the ultimate symbol of
>>>>blindness"?
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:05 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does
>>>>not
>>>>discriminate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Alysha:
>>>>
>>>>As I have tried to say in another message, cane travel at NFB centers
>>>>is there in part to accomplish other goals besides just literally
>>>>teaching cane travel.  The cane is the ultimate symbol of blindness,
>>>>and learning to carry it with confidence is where the rubber hits the
>>>>road for most newly blind persons.
>>>>
>>>>Most people think the dog does more than he/she does, but they think
>>>>it nonetheless.  I suspect some blind persons attribute more to the
>>>>dog then they should too.  So, they wouldn't be developing confidence
>>>>in their own skills.
>>>>
>>>>People from the dog community should come together and start a
>>>>dog-oriented center I think!
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>At 07:07 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
>>>> >As others have mentioned in their posts, I think we need to consider
>>>> >that much more than just cane travel is offered at training centers.
>>>> >So say there's a guide dog user who is comfortable with mobility but
>>>> >who needs some work on cooking or technology or braille. Then, there
>>>> >doesn't seem to be a program out there this person could attend to
>>>> >learn the necessary skills without risking damage to their
>>>> >relationship with their dog. I do think that cane travel is quite
>>>> >important and that all guide dog users should be comfortable with
>>>> >it, but it seems like all the training centers I've heard about
>>>> >mandate it as the only means of mobility to be used during the time
>>>> >one is there. So I suppose I'm wondering why there are no programs
>>>> >(that I know of) that accommodate the potential needs of guide dog
>>>> >users instead of expecting them to essentially temporarily give up
>>>> >their chosen mobility aid. The important thing is that we can get
>>>> >around independently, not whether we do so with a dog or a cane. Why
>>>> >is it that people seem to link mobility classes only with cane
>>>> >travel? I think a guide dog user could still benefit from mobility
>>>> >lessons that aren't focused on the training of the dog. The problem
>>>> >solving and orientation skills taught in good mobility programs are
>>>> >useful to you no matter what mobility aid you use. So I think it is
>>>> >fair for a program to demand competency with a cane, but I do not
>>>> >think that it is right to restrict the choices of guide dog users to
>>>> >either doing without training in the myriad of skills taught at
>>>> >centers or giving up the use of their dogs for a significant
>>>> >fraction of the day.
>>>> >
>>>> >Alysha
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>
>>>
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