[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does not discriminate

Mon Feb 23 18:07:13 UTC 2009

Interesting comments. Certainly, the cane is a symbol of independence for
blind people. The public sees a blind person using a cane and sees
independence. I believe that the same is true of a blind person using a dog.
I remind folks that there are blind people who are not comfortable being
seen reading braille in public. We as a society need to move beyond
stereotypes of all kinds, including assumptions about dog guides. 

I will share that I have learned personally that a dog will not loose their
guiding skills in a month or two of not being used. This happened to me a
few years ago when I had an aneurism burst in my brain. I was hospitalized
in the Nero Intensive Care Unit for nearly a month and subsequently in a
rehab hospital. My dog was brought to me once I was in the rehab hospital to
visit but I couldn't really use her until I was back at home. This was due
to my physical strength, balance and ability to understand what was going on
around me. My faithful pup picked up where we left off without any problems.
Fortunately, my family kept her behavior consistent with what I expect and
took her on plenty of walks. My family situation is such that I could go for
a short training session at a center without my dog but I definitely would
not go for six months without her. Having said all that, the arrangements of
having the dog in a room during classes would not impair the average dog's
ability to work later in the day after class. I would be concerned about my
dog getting into some bad habits and chewing but, as I understand it, users
can check on their dogs periodically.  My cane technique isn't perfect but I
can, and do use it. Last summer, as a celebration of my rehabilitation my
husband and I went to Jamaica where dogs cannot go without quarantine. For
those ten days I used my cane. In situations where I don't take my dog I
bring my cane and use it. I would, and did use my cane when I went on a
date. I use my cane even when I go sighted guide, which is rare. At a
minimum, when on a date, I wouldn't want to have to stumble around to find
my way in a bathroom. 

Having said all that, I have turned down opportunities to go to training
centers because I wasn't able to choose what classes I attended. This hasn't
been a problem because I obtained the training I wanted through other means.

Sorry, for the lengthy post.

Joy 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:29 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does not
discriminate

Just that, it undeniably says I am blind and I can't and won't hide 
it.  Some people want to carry a folding cane and put it away 
whenever possible.  The long white cane makes that not possible.  For 
many people carrying that cane is tied to their own self acceptance 
of their blindness.

Dave

At 10:08 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>What exactly do you mean by "the cane is the ultimate symbol of 
>blindness"?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy 
>does not discriminate
>
>
>Alysha:
>
>As I have tried to say in another message, cane travel at NFB centers 
>is there in part to accomplish other goals besides just literally 
>teaching cane travel.  The cane is the ultimate symbol of blindness, 
>and learning to carry it with confidence is where the rubber hits the 
>road for most newly blind persons.
>
>Most people think the dog does more than he/she does, but they think it 
>nonetheless.  I suspect some blind persons attribute more to the dog 
>then they should too.  So, they wouldn't be developing confidence in 
>their own skills.
>
>People from the dog community should come together and start a 
>dog-oriented center I think!
>
>Dave
>
>At 07:07 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
> >As others have mentioned in their posts, I think we need to consider 
> >that much more than just cane travel is offered at training centers. 
> >So say there's a guide dog user who is comfortable with mobility but 
> >who needs some work on cooking or technology or braille. Then, there 
> >doesn't seem to be a program out there this person could attend to 
> >learn the necessary skills without risking damage to their 
> >relationship with their dog. I do think that cane travel is quite 
> >important and that all guide dog users should be comfortable with it, 
> >but it seems like all the training centers I've heard about mandate 
> >it as the only means of mobility to be used during the time one is 
> >there. So I suppose I'm wondering why there are no programs (that I 
> >know of) that accommodate the potential needs of guide dog users 
> >instead of expecting them to essentially temporarily give up their 
> >chosen mobility aid. The important thing is that we can get around 
> >independently, not whether we do so with a dog or a cane. Why is it 
> >that people seem to link mobility classes only with cane travel? I 
> >think a guide dog user could still benefit from mobility lessons that 
> >aren't focused on the training of the dog. The problem solving and 
> >orientation skills taught in good mobility programs are useful to you 
> >no matter what mobility aid you use. So I think it is fair for a 
> >program to demand competency with a cane, but I do not think that it 
> >is right to restrict the choices of guide dog users to either doing 
> >without training in the myriad of skills taught at centers or giving 
> >up the use of their dogs for a significant fraction of the day.
> >
> >Alysha
> >
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