[nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

Tue Feb 24 17:50:05 UTC 2009

Marion.
I believe in full and unconditional ownership of our dogs.
Any other policy shows that the school doesn't have trust and that you're
not an adult basically.

I feel, just as you do, that Leader Dog's probationary period is a step
backward.
If the schools want to own our dogs, then they should come to our houses,
park our dogs four times a day, pay our veterinary bills, etc.

When I've had this discussion with fellow Leader grads, or grads of other
schools, I've been told that not allowing ownership is good because it helps
avoid abuse.
Well, honestly, any dasterdly  so and so who'd abuse a dog would do it
whether they own the dog or not.
They should be dealt with in the way any other case of animal abuse is dealt
with. 

I'll also add that the Seeing Eye granted ownership since 1929 and somehow
their school's grad haven't just rampantly abused their dogs so much more
than any other program.

Cordially,

Dan W. 
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Garry and Joy Relton
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:26 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

Marion, 

I agree. The ownership issue is only one of the many reasons I have obtained
my dogs from the seeing Eye. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:12 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

Joy,
    I heard that, as well. I also know, however, that Leader Dogs does not
currently give ownership upon graduation, opting for a "probationary lease".

I feel this change is regressive and reactive. Interestingly, when they
attended our convention in 2007 after they changed their policy, they did
not share this with the members. Were they trying to hide it?They tell their

graduates that this is the current trend with all of the guide dog schools. 
It sounds as if they aren't being completely forthright!

Fraternally,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry and Joy Relton" <relton30857 at cox.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog
policydoesnotdiscriminate

> For my own education, am I correct that Leader Dog will give cane 
> travel instruction to assist students enrolled in their training in 
> improving their orientation and mobility? I thought I read that some 
> where.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Marsha
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:50 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog 
> policydoes notdiscriminate
>
>
>
> No school is going to admit it, but yes there are schools in which do 
> not require such orientation like GDB and Seeing Eye does. But of 
> course it all depends on the person too. Marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:46 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog 
> policydoes notdiscriminate
>
> This also raises an interesting question. Supposedly, if the person 
> needs more mobility training, the dog guide school would not have 
> admitted them. In other words, are some dog guide schools not strict 
> enough on their mobility requirements?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sarah baebler" <wolvessarah at hotmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog 
> policydoes not
>
> discriminate
>
>
>
> The way I took it was that they weren't leaving her out but wanted her 
> to get the fundamentals of cane travel before using the dog as a 
> mobility aid. Just like in the center they want you to use the cane 
> before if you have a dog use that.  At GDB they test us to make sure 
> we have good cane travel before we're accepted into the program so I 
> don't see why she was anti trying.  I don't want to give up traveling 
> with Dante all the time but I would if I was being taught on cane 
> travel.  Even in a new area I go out with a cane and learn the area 
> before I take my dog.  I just think they could have made a plan.  To 
> work with the cane even if she had the dog with her, or use the cane 
> one week the dog the next.  I just think if your learning cane travel 
> then use the cane.  I agree that she shouldn't have just left the dog 
> home for the 6 months, or not use the dog at all. I don't know maybe I 
> misinterpreded the article but that's what I got from it. I also think 
> people are too eager to sue sometimes instead of working things out.
> Sarah and Dante
>
>> From: queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:40:54 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog 
>> policydoes not discriminate
>>
>> I do not understand myself. How is this center any different than one 
>> of our training centers? Even people who attend our centers can use 
>> their dogs.
>> I
>> understand the need to learn to use the cane, but if that person 
>> chooses to use a dog then so be it.
>>
>> Why do we always have to put the cane users against the guide dog 
>> users? Marsha
>>
>>
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