[nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

Wed Feb 25 05:09:49 UTC 2009

Let's say for example you have ownership fo the dog and the team doesn't
work out what happens then?

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Sherri <flmom2006 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dan, does this mean that you won't go back to Leader for your next dog? I
> too hope they change the policy.
>
> Sherri
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:50 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader
>
>
>   Marion.
>> I believe in full and unconditional ownership of our dogs.
>> Any other policy shows that the school doesn't have trust and that you're
>> not an adult basically.
>>
>> I feel, just as you do, that Leader Dog's probationary period is a step
>> backward.
>> If the schools want to own our dogs, then they should come to our houses,
>> park our dogs four times a day, pay our veterinary bills, etc.
>>
>> When I've had this discussion with fellow Leader grads, or grads of other
>> schools, I've been told that not allowing ownership is good because it
>> helps
>> avoid abuse.
>> Well, honestly, any dasterdly  so and so who'd abuse a dog would do it
>> whether they own the dog or not.
>> They should be dealt with in the way any other case of animal abuse is
>> dealt
>> with.
>>
>> I'll also add that the Seeing Eye granted ownership since 1929 and somehow
>> their school's grad haven't just rampantly abused their dogs so much more
>> than any other program.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Dan W.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Garry and Joy Relton
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:26 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader
>>
>> Marion,
>>
>> I agree. The ownership issue is only one of the many reasons I have
>> obtained
>> my dogs from the seeing Eye.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:12 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader
>>
>>
>> Joy,
>>   I heard that, as well. I also know, however, that Leader Dogs does not
>> currently give ownership upon graduation, opting for a "probationary
>> lease".
>>
>> I feel this change is regressive and reactive. Interestingly, when they
>> attended our convention in 2007 after they changed their policy, they did
>> not share this with the members. Were they trying to hide it?They tell
>> their
>>
>> graduates that this is the current trend with all of the guide dog
>> schools.
>> It sounds as if they aren't being completely forthright!
>>
>> Fraternally,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Garry and Joy Relton" <relton30857 at cox.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog
>> policydoesnotdiscriminate
>>
>>
>> For my own education, am I correct that Leader Dog will give cane
>>> travel instruction to assist students enrolled in their training in
>>> improving their orientation and mobility? I thought I read that some
>>> where.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Marsha
>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:50 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog
>>> policydoes notdiscriminate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No school is going to admit it, but yes there are schools in which do
>>> not require such orientation like GDB and Seeing Eye does. But of
>>> course it all depends on the person too. Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:46 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog
>>> policydoes notdiscriminate
>>>
>>> This also raises an interesting question. Supposedly, if the person
>>> needs more mobility training, the dog guide school would not have
>>> admitted them. In other words, are some dog guide schools not strict
>>> enough on their mobility requirements?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "sarah baebler" <wolvessarah at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog
>>> policydoes not
>>>
>>> discriminate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The way I took it was that they weren't leaving her out but wanted her
>>> to get the fundamentals of cane travel before using the dog as a
>>> mobility aid. Just like in the center they want you to use the cane
>>> before if you have a dog use that.  At GDB they test us to make sure
>>> we have good cane travel before we're accepted into the program so I
>>> don't see why she was anti trying.  I don't want to give up traveling
>>> with Dante all the time but I would if I was being taught on cane
>>> travel.  Even in a new area I go out with a cane and learn the area
>>> before I take my dog.  I just think they could have made a plan.  To
>>> work with the cane even if she had the dog with her, or use the cane
>>> one week the dog the next.  I just think if your learning cane travel
>>> then use the cane.  I agree that she shouldn't have just left the dog
>>> home for the 6 months, or not use the dog at all. I don't know maybe I
>>> misinterpreded the article but that's what I got from it. I also think
>>> people are too eager to sue sometimes instead of working things out.
>>> Sarah and Dante
>>>
>>> From: queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:40:54 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog
>>>> policydoes not discriminate
>>>>
>>>> I do not understand myself. How is this center any different than one
>>>> of our training centers? Even people who attend our centers can use
>>>> their dogs.
>>>> I
>>>> understand the need to learn to use the cane, but if that person
>>>> chooses to use a dog then so be it.
>>>>
>>>> Why do we always have to put the cane users against the guide dog
>>>> users? Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle