[nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

Dan Weiner dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
Wed Feb 25 14:33:18 UTC 2009


I haven't decided yet.  I'm hoping my next dog is a long way away--smile.

Cordially,

Dan  

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sherri
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:38 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

Dan, does this mean that you won't go back to Leader for your next dog? I
too hope they change the policy.

Sherri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader


> Marion.
> I believe in full and unconditional ownership of our dogs.
> Any other policy shows that the school doesn't have trust and that you're
> not an adult basically.
>
> I feel, just as you do, that Leader Dog's probationary period is a step
> backward.
> If the schools want to own our dogs, then they should come to our houses,
> park our dogs four times a day, pay our veterinary bills, etc.
>
> When I've had this discussion with fellow Leader grads, or grads of other
> schools, I've been told that not allowing ownership is good because it 
> helps
> avoid abuse.
> Well, honestly, any dasterdly  so and so who'd abuse a dog would do it
> whether they own the dog or not.
> They should be dealt with in the way any other case of animal abuse is 
> dealt
> with.
>
> I'll also add that the Seeing Eye granted ownership since 1929 and somehow
> their school's grad haven't just rampantly abused their dogs so much more
> than any other program.
>
>
>
> Cordially,
>
> Dan W.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Garry and Joy Relton
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:26 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader
>
> Marion,
>
> I agree. The ownership issue is only one of the many reasons I have 
> obtained
> my dogs from the seeing Eye.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:12 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader
>
>
> Joy,
>    I heard that, as well. I also know, however, that Leader Dogs does not
> currently give ownership upon graduation, opting for a "probationary 
> lease".
>
> I feel this change is regressive and reactive. Interestingly, when they
> attended our convention in 2007 after they changed their policy, they did
> not share this with the members. Were they trying to hide it?They tell 
> their
>
> graduates that this is the current trend with all of the guide dog 
> schools.
> It sounds as if they aren't being completely forthright!
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Garry and Joy Relton" <relton30857 at cox.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog
> policydoesnotdiscriminate
>
>
>> For my own education, am I correct that Leader Dog will give cane
>> travel instruction to assist students enrolled in their training in
>> improving their orientation and mobility? I thought I read that some
>> where.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marsha
>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:50 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog
>> policydoes notdiscriminate
>>
>>
>>
>> No school is going to admit it, but yes there are schools in which do
>> not require such orientation like GDB and Seeing Eye does. But of
>> course it all depends on the person too. Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:46 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog
>> policydoes notdiscriminate
>>
>> This also raises an interesting question. Supposedly, if the person
>> needs more mobility training, the dog guide school would not have
>> admitted them. In other words, are some dog guide schools not strict
>> enough on their mobility requirements?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "sarah baebler" <wolvessarah at hotmail.com>
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog
>> policydoes not
>>
>> discriminate
>>
>>
>>
>> The way I took it was that they weren't leaving her out but wanted her
>> to get the fundamentals of cane travel before using the dog as a
>> mobility aid. Just like in the center they want you to use the cane
>> before if you have a dog use that.  At GDB they test us to make sure
>> we have good cane travel before we're accepted into the program so I
>> don't see why she was anti trying.  I don't want to give up traveling
>> with Dante all the time but I would if I was being taught on cane
>> travel.  Even in a new area I go out with a cane and learn the area
>> before I take my dog.  I just think they could have made a plan.  To
>> work with the cane even if she had the dog with her, or use the cane
>> one week the dog the next.  I just think if your learning cane travel
>> then use the cane.  I agree that she shouldn't have just left the dog
>> home for the 6 months, or not use the dog at all. I don't know maybe I
>> misinterpreded the article but that's what I got from it. I also think
>> people are too eager to sue sometimes instead of working things out.
>> Sarah and Dante
>>
>>> From: queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:40:54 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog
>>> policydoes not discriminate
>>>
>>> I do not understand myself. How is this center any different than one
>>> of our training centers? Even people who attend our centers can use
>>> their dogs.
>>> I
>>> understand the need to learn to use the cane, but if that person
>>> chooses to use a dog then so be it.
>>>
>>> Why do we always have to put the cane users against the guide dog
>>> users? Marsha
>>>
>>>
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