[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

[Pickrell, Rebecca M (IT)]

Linda, I disagree. In order for students of these centers to have a real
experience, they need to have a dog present in the kitchen, ideally one
who is a master at counter surfing. That will really teach them to be
aware of what's going on around them! 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:55 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide
dogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

Dan,
I agree with you on the guide dogs at orientation centers.  Yeah, Dan,
this issue does definately stir the pot (grin!).

What does one do with the dog all day (8am-5pm) with the dog home alone
in the apartment with no one to take it out to relieve during the day?

It certainly is reasonable to not use the dog during the cane mobility
lessons or have the dog present in the kitchen during the cooking
classes. 
But, to make the dog stay alone all day in an apartment is not
reasonable. 
It is not reasonable to not allow the dog to go with you for your
computer class or Braille class.

I do think it is best to attend the centers before getting a dog -
you'll really learn your travel skills with the cane there.  But that
isn't always possible if a guide dog user wants to learn some more
skills other than cane travel.

Regards,

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog
policydoesnotdiscriminate


> The Iowa Center, I presume, is in the United States and there is an 
> ADA and state laws here, it's not an island unto itself.
>
> If the Iowa Center were called the Iowa Cane Center, and only cane 
> training and no other skill were offered, than maybe I could see it.  
> Still I would advocate for the dog being allowed to accompany the 
> individual on the premises.
>
> Laws aren't just made for the rest of the world, blind training 
> centers must abide by them, too.
>
> Referring to the dog as a visual aid  is misleading.  Obviously, the 
> dog sees, if the dogs were b lined we probably wouldn't be using
them--smile.
> Every guide dog program teaches us that we're supposed to give 
> commands to our dogs, I assume.
>
> The guide dog issue, or rather what I perceive the NFB leadership's 
> approach to the guide dog issue, is the one serious divergence I have 
> with the Federation.  This is from someone who got involved when he 
> was a teen-ager.
>
> Well, also I'm not favorably inclined to the NFB's position on audible

> pedestrian signals, also, but that's another subject.
>
> The obsession with white cane travel and the tacit implication that 
> those who don't use a cane are somehow less capable, together with 
> what I've seen as a tendency to discourage people from saying anything

> glowing about the dog while glorifying the cane doesn't sit well with 
> me.
>
> The guide dog and the cane are different mobility aids.  I personally 
> believe the dog to be superior for my situation and my type of travel,

> There are things I can do easily with a dog that I would be 
> hard-pressed to do with a cane, such as cross streets in a straight  
> line.
> Anyway, I've gone a bit beyond the question you posed, Rebecca.  My 
> short answer is that, as I said state rehab centers and even NFB 
> centers should, and in my opinion, must accommodate access with a 
> guide dog.  I view it as an access issue and access denial.  Could it 
> be  that some people discourage the use of guide dogs because they, 
> the dogs,  see and for no other reason?
> I'm not sure that's true, but I'm posing the question to stir up the 
> pot a bit.
> My personal approach to life isn't to prove that I'm able to do things

> all the time independently, I mean without help.
>
> I would say that as an adult, I do have some idea of what my skills 
> are and if I felt my cane skills are adequate, wanted to work my dog, 
> and received a closed-minded  access denial, I would be loathe to 
> patronize such a program.
> What would happen if I just wanted to attend such a program, for say, 
> my computer skills?
>
> Now, for the record, nothing in this post is meant to cast aspersions 
> on any of my list friends, these are just my opinions, strongly held 
> ones, of course.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Dan W.
>
>
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