[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

[Tamara Smith-Kinney]

Linda,

>From what I have been told, the dog spends the day in an office with a staff
member, who will also take it to relieve and all that.  So the dog isn't
left alone.  Still, I want to be responsible for my own dog, so did not feel
terribly comfortable with the notion.  Had I been able to work out the
time/money/etc. problems, I don't think it would be a deal breaker, since
there were so many good and even really great things about going.

I'm excited for you going back to Vermont.  /smile/  I really love it back
there.  To visit.  I am too much of a weather-weanie to live there. /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:55 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide
dogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

Dan,
I agree with you on the guide dogs at orientation centers.  Yeah, Dan, this 
issue does definately stir the pot (grin!).

What does one do with the dog all day (8am-5pm) with the dog home alone in 
the apartment with no one to take it out to relieve during the day?

It certainly is reasonable to not use the dog during the cane mobility 
lessons or have the dog present in the kitchen during the cooking classes. 
But, to make the dog stay alone all day in an apartment is not reasonable. 
It is not reasonable to not allow the dog to go with you for your computer 
class or Braille class.

I do think it is best to attend the centers before getting a dog - you'll 
really learn your travel skills with the cane there.  But that isn't always 
possible if a guide dog user wants to learn some more skills other than cane

travel.

Regards,

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog 
policydoesnotdiscriminate


> The Iowa Center, I presume, is in the United States and there is an ADA 
> and
> state laws here, it's not an island unto itself.
>
> If the Iowa Center were called the Iowa Cane Center, and only cane 
> training
> and no other skill were offered, than maybe I could see it.  Still I would
> advocate for the dog being allowed to accompany the individual on the
> premises.
>
> Laws aren't just made for the rest of the world, blind training centers 
> must
> abide by them, too.
>
> Referring to the dog as a visual aid  is misleading.  Obviously, the dog
> sees, if the dogs were b lined we probably wouldn't be using them--smile.
> Every guide dog program teaches us that we're supposed to give commands to
> our dogs, I assume.
>
> The guide dog issue, or rather what I perceive the NFB leadership's 
> approach
> to the guide dog issue, is the one serious divergence I have with the
> Federation.  This is from someone who got involved when he was a 
> teen-ager.
>
> Well, also I'm not favorably inclined to the NFB's position on audible
> pedestrian signals, also, but that's another subject.
>
> The obsession with white cane travel and the tacit implication that those
> who don't use a cane are somehow less capable, together with what I've 
> seen
> as a tendency to discourage people from saying anything glowing about the
> dog while glorifying the cane doesn't sit well with me.
>
> The guide dog and the cane are different mobility aids.  I personally
> believe the dog to be superior for my situation and my type of travel,
> There are things I can do easily with a dog that I would be hard-pressed 
> to
> do with a cane, such as cross streets in a straight  line.
> Anyway, I've gone a bit beyond the question you posed, Rebecca.  My short
> answer is that, as I said state rehab centers and even NFB centers should,
> and in my opinion, must accommodate access with a guide dog.  I view it as
> an access issue and access denial.  Could it be  that some people 
> discourage
> the use of guide dogs because they, the dogs,  see and for no other 
> reason?
> I'm not sure that's true, but I'm posing the question to stir up the pot a
> bit.
> My personal approach to life isn't to prove that I'm able to do things all
> the time independently, I mean without help.
>
> I would say that as an adult, I do have some idea of what my skills are 
> and
> if I felt my cane skills are adequate, wanted to work my dog, and received

> a
> closed-minded  access denial, I would be loathe to patronize such a 
> program.
> What would happen if I just wanted to attend such a program, for say, my
> computer skills?
>
> Now, for the record, nothing in this post is meant to cast aspersions on 
> any
> of my list friends, these are just my opinions, strongly held ones, of
> course.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Dan W.
>
>
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