[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dogpolicydoes not discriminate

[Angie Matney]

As I said to someone offlist, guide-dog users have been a part of the NFB since its inception. (At least, I assume so. That sounded good, anyway. And they have *definitely* been a part of the NFB for a long time. But I digress.) Guide-dog users 
have raised funds for the organization. So the centers we have now were not just created by the cane-using members of the group. This is why I think we should explore other options before considering a center created by guide-dog users.

Angie

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:01:37 -0800, Tamara Smith-Kinney wrote:

>Dave,

>I hadn't really thought of it that way.  Hmm....  I had plenty of
>forewarning, so even newly blind those things weren't big issues for me as
>they surely would have been otherwise.

>My dog is a deity, too, and believes she should spend her days basking in
>the adulation of her many worshippers.  Perhaps we should put a chapl in the
>NAGDU dog-oriented training center you proposed?  /grin/

>Tami Smith-Kinney

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of David Andrews
>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 2:57 AM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dogpolicydoes not
>discriminate

>Angie:

>I think that you are just seeing this as a "skills training" kind of 
>thing, and I think it is more than that.  NFB-type centers are 
>teaching specific skills, but much more than that.  The skills are 
>part of the way they get at it.  They are teaching people how to be 
>blind persons in a sighted world, how to handle your blindness, 
>confidence, self reliance, independence, and a belief in alternative 
>techniques and the power of blind persons.
>You learn to believe in yourself.

>With a dog you talk about the partnership, and while the person is in 
>charge and makes decisions, I think there are things you hand over to 
>the dog, so to speak.  So, it is possible that some people would not 
>develop as much confidence in their own skills if they used a god, 
>because of what they believed they were doing, and what the dog was doing.

>I have said, on this list, in the past, that I think it would be 
>possible for a nfb-type center that used dogs to be designed.  I 
>think it would need to be done from the ground up though, and the 
>people involved would really have to understand what and how NFB 
>centers were doing with the cane.  They could then find ways to 
>impart the same lessons and confidence using other things.  People 
>would need to get past just viewing as straight skills though, and 
>past being mad and feeling left out.  If the guide dog community 
>wants this then they should find a way and come forward and do it.

>Dave


>At 03:02 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
>>We don't know all the facts behind the verdict. If, for example, she 
>>was denied the opportunity to use her dog at all during her program, 
>>I would say that the jury made a bad decision, and I would hope the 
>>verdict would be reversed on appeal. If, on
>>the other hand, she was denied the opportunity to use her dog during 
>>cane-travel courses, I can be a bit more sympathetic to the Iowa 
>>Department's position. Still, I really don't see why guide dog use 
>>during mobility training at centers must be an all
>>or nothing deal. I think the NFB really should consider ways to 
>>incorporate *some* guide-dog use into O&A training, and that would 
>>include *some* guide-dog use during travel courses. The current 
>>system does not accurately reflect the reality of the
>>lives of many potential center students.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>Angie
>>
>>On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:52:25 -0500, Marion & Martin wrote:
>>
>> >Well, this woman did sue....and lost!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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