[nagdu] statement re: ownership and qeustions re: schools policies

Sat Feb 28 16:22:09 UTC 2009

Hi Merry- 
I have just completed my training with a new dog at the seeing eye, and we
did not use food as part of the training. In the future they will be
offering food reward training in the program, but it will be optional and
individualized. Now I did use food reward training while at the Seeing Eye
onetime  when my dog had to go see the vet for follow up on an ear infection
because she  was not  wanting to go in the vets office and would not sit
still for the vet so we used click and treat to assist in getting her to
understand that we weren't trying to hurt her. 
Tina  

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Merry Schoch
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:05 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] statement re: ownership and qeustions re: schools policies

Hi All,

I had several problems with my second dog.  The first is he hated the
harness.  He would run away from me when I went to put it on.  Once on, he
worked like a champ.  I called the school without hesitation.  The gave me
some ideas which worked temporary until he figured out my tricks i.e. using
food to get him to come to me.  This situation was resolved when I bought
Julie's harness'.

One aspect of ownership that I am pleased about is that I have to choice of
keeping the dog (still have the first one) or finding a new home for my dog
when retired (which I did for the second one).  My 2nd guide Teller broke my
heart when he nipped my grandchild on the head.  This was an unprovoked
event.

The school I obtained him from would not introduce me to his puppyraiser or
give me contact information regarding her, as they did other grads, because
when she was raising him she had an issue of him attacking puppies.  She
worked with the local people on the issue, tried all their suggestions and
then drove 1 1/2 hours to give him to a staff person in the area and this
individual never showed up.  Being frustrated over the situation she drove
to the school (8 hours away), and gave him back to the school to work with
him.  He was over a year old, and she felt she had exhausted all her efforts
to fix the problem.  Instead, of the school being thankful she was
blackballed.  This was the second dog she raised, and the first works with a
handler who is blind and in a wheelchair.

I was not happy that I did not get to talk with my puppyraiser, so after a
few months I did research and found her.  She and I hit it off great, and
she told me the above story.  Which made sense since the dog had already
attacked a puppy when I was doing an NFB event, and a puppyraiser was
providing transportation, and I assured her it would be okay to put the pup
on the floor in the back with us.  How embarrassed I was that my dog
attacked her dog.  The school never told me about this problem with the dog.

When I was at an NFB convention in Atlanta she came to visit us.  The night
before we went home we went to her home, all the people who knew my dog when
he was a pup was there, he ran around with all the dogs he grew up we, and
we had a cook out.  I asked her that night if he had to be retired early and
I could not keep him would she be willing to take him.  She said no matter
what she would.

Now back to the point,  when he nipped my grandchild I called her and within
a week she drove the 8 hours, stayed overnight, and left with him the next
day.  It broke my heart to say goodbye; however, I stay in touch with her
and he is a happy dog.  If the school became involved with this situation, I
am not sure what might have happened to him due to what he did to my
grandchild.  I am grateful I had the authority to decide his fate.

I have filled out three applications with three schools, GDB, GDF, and
Seeing Eye. Since I am in the middle of changing physicians and it takes
awhile to get a new appointment this has been delayed because the medical
form cannot be filled out right away.  This has actually been a benefit,
although I am a get it done now type person, it has caused me to slow down 
and consider these different school more carefully than I would have.   I 
talked to quite a few schools at the national convention last year; however,
being married to the Marion and this list has caused me to think a little
more indepth regarding obtaining a new dog.  I have contacted GDB and they
sent me their ownership policy, and I believe I am going to rule them out
due to the policy.  I was also told they are using food and clicker training
training.  I am not sure about using food with my guide as part of our
training.

Anyone have any input regarding food?  Also, one question I'll ask GDF and
the Seeing Eye is if they use food?  Please share your experiences.

And Tami, a few years ago Marion and I went into a restaurant, and they
wanted to put us back in the corner.  At this time there were smoking areas
in restaurants in Florida, so as we were being led to the back corner, I
asked them for a nonsmoking area, and they had to put us elsewhere.  We were
not segregated that time!

Thanks and sorry for such a long post,
Merry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader

> Marion,
>
> I'd assert that even when graduates have ownership, such as most GDF grads
> do, people are far too hesitant to contact the school about problems. Some
> are embarrassed. Some truly do think we can still take the dog away, even
> though we explain what factors would cause this to happen and how rare it
> is.
>
> Might we suggest retirement? Certainly, but we can't force the issue 
> unless
> some extremely serious things have already happened.
>
> I'm not sure I completely understand the behavior of not wanting to call 
> the
> school for fear of having a dog taken away when people do legally own the
> dog, but it happens. I've sadly had to talk to people who waited way, way
> too late to call and then the issues were far beyond fixing and the dogs 
> had
> to be retired. When asked why they didn't call sooner, many of these 
> people
> said they were afraid we'd take the dog away. Well, because we weren't 
> able
> to offer any help, in any form, the dog had to be retired, so, person 
> calls
> school, dog has to retire, calling school is bad? Stranger things have 
> been
> proposed.
>
>
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