[nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR

Mon Jan 5 14:18:07 UTC 2009

Marion and Julie,

Remember, the definition is in essence a two prong test:

1. specifically trained to perform a task to mitigate the disability;
and
2. does not pose a direct threat.

Marion is correct; this is a two pronged test, where both prongs must be
satisfied.  In the case of a monkey, there is no doubt that monkeys are
capable of prong #1.  However, because of the outside stimuli that may
cause the monkey, as a breed and not necessarily individually, to go
nutty, the second prong of the test might not be satisfied.

True, both dogs and monkeys have inate abilities that lead to a better
training experience with handlers, but the tendency to satisfy #2 lies
with the dog and not the monkey.  It's not that the monkey is "smarter;"
it is that the monkey is more independent minded, loud, and is capable
of having a right old fit when it is compelled.  Dogs are by and large
not wired that way.

Craig

Craig Borne
NHTSA/DOT
(202) 493-0627 
craig.borne at dot.gov

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:59 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR

Julie,
    The issue is whether or not the animal complies with the definition
of a 
service animal. By this definition, the animal must be trained to
perform a 
task. An innate ability is not a task-trained behavior. In Florida, a
man 
carrying a snake into a Courthouse was denied access because the snake
was 
not a service animal, even though the man said it was able to detect a 
seizure. the innate ability of the snake to detect a seizure is not 
sufficient to qualify it as a service animal, as it was not trained to 
perform any tasks to mitigate the person's disability.
    Furthermore, it was decided that the mere presence of the snake
created 
a direct threat that could not be mitigated by a modification of
policies, 
practices, or procedures.
    My understanding is that the specific issue with monkeys is that
they 
are wild animals. though they can be tamed, they still have wild
tendencies 
that cannot be controlled. It is also my understanding that there have
been 
a large number of incidents in which monkeys, acting as service animals,

have reacted adversely to environmental stimuli that has had negative 
consequences, supporting the aforementioned issue. the DOJ is
considering 
banning wild and farm animals from their definition of service animals. 
Though I believe that horses may be the exception, I do not believe that

some of the array of animals is appropriate as service animals. I am
certain 
there will be some legal challenges to whatever definition the DOJ
releases 
and we will need to let the courts vet out that issue with evidence from

both sides.

Fraternally,
Marion gwizdala

----- 
From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR

Marion even though monkeys are reacting to a stimuli with their innate
abilities what difference does it make as long as they are performing
the
service that the person benefits from every time the stimuli occurs.
Our
dogs are trained based on their innate abilities too.

Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR

Dear All,
    I think this is an issue we all need to be aware of and
well-educated
on. Though I am supportive of ann's right to use Panda, the other
"service
animals" mentioned in this article are not currently protected by the
Americans with disabilities Act. The crucial part of the ADA's
definition of
a service animal is one that is "individually trained". The parrot and
the
monkey, though they may have an effect on the individual, have not been
trained to perform that function; rather, what they do is an innate
ability.
It is a function of their presence, not a task for which they have been
trained. I would like to hear other's comments.

Fraternally,
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerkutsch at yahoo.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR

Helper Parrots, Guide Horses Face Legal Challenges
NPR Listen Now [7 min 20 sec] add to playlist
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98958273

Photos:
Jim Eggers carries his parrot Sadie around with him in this cage
converted
into a backpack.

Richard, a bonnet macaque monkey, helps Debby Rose get through the day
without debilitating panic attacks. Read more about him on our blog.

Ann Edie, who is blind, relies on Panda to guide her through her daily
activities

Day to Day, January 2, 2009 * Chances are you've seen a blind person
accompanied by a guide dog. But what about a guide horse, a service
parrot
or a monkey trained to help an agoraphobic?

These are just a few of the nontraditional service animals that are used
across the country to help people with disabilities and psychological
disorders. As their uses are expanding, however, the government is
considering a proposal that would limit the definition of "service
animal"
to "a dog or other common domestic animal."

In an article in the upcoming New York Times Magazine, Rebecca Skloot
outlines why many people are upset about the pending law. Sometimes less
familiar animals make better helpers, she tells Alex Cohen.

Miniature horses, for example, live much longer than dogs, which means
that
their owners don't have to readjust to a new guide as often.

"Horses tend to live and work into their 30s, whereas a guide dog will
work
six to eight years total," she explains.

And while guide horses may prompt more questions when entering a store
or
restaurant than guide dogs, their strengths can make it worth it, she
explains. In addition to having amazing vision, they instinctually work
in
synchronicity with their owner.

"They are herd animals, so they naturally work really well with other
people," she says, adding that "they are aware of their surroundings in
a
way dogs aren't because they are prey animals as opposed to predators."

Skloot spent many hours observing how a miniature horse named Panda
helped a
blind woman named Ann Edie. Even after all her preparatory research,
Skloot
was blown away.

"I could sort of envision how a horse could guide a person. But the
level at
which Panda guides her is amazing. In just a few blocks, I saw her
maneuver
around things that I, as a person that's sighted, wouldn't have thought
of."

As Panda walks, her hooves make a distinctive sound on the ground, sort
of
like a person walking in clogs. The pitch changes on wood, leaves,
cement
and metal, offering important clues for Edie about her surroundings.
Panda
can also use her hooves to tell Edie to step up or touch the crosswalk
button - something a dog couldn't do.

"This is a perk we didn't expect," Skloot says that Panda's trainer told
her.

A Calming Parrot

The surprises don't end with horses. Jim Eggers, who suffers from
bipolar
disorder, accidentally discovered that his parrot can help him calm down
and
avoid destructive behavior.

Sensing that her owner is on the verge of a psychotic episode, Sadie
talks
him down with, "It's OK, Jim. Calm down, Jim. You're all right, Jim. I'm
here, Jim."

He carries her around at all times in a backpack carefully fitted to
hold
her cage. It's not an arrangement that people are accustomed to and
people
are often skeptical.

"The reaction from a lot of business owners and the general public is
often
one of suspicion, that you're making it up," Skloot says.

Eggers has been told, for example, that his parrot isn't allowed on the
bus
with him.

This is why the "service animal" definition is crucial to people such as
Eggers and Edie. According to the American with Disabilities Act,
service
animals are allowed to go anywhere with their owners. Confusion stemming
from the current law prompted a move for a more careful definition. But
the
proposed change would exclude birds and horses, among other animals not
technically considered "common."

This means people like Eggers and Edie will risk breaking the law if
they
keep their helpers.

Your can read more about the proposed legislation in Skloot's article in
The
New York Times Magazine and see additional photos on her blog.

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