[nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR

Tue Jan 6 13:01:17 UTC 2009

Craig,
    I believe that the real issue with monkeys is that they are wild 
animals. Though they can be tamed, they are still wild and, therefore, 
unpredictable. Furthermore, there is evidence to show that monkeys carry 
communicable diseases, a direct threat that cannot be mitigated by 
modifications to policies, practices, or procedures.

Fraternally,
marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <craig.borne at dot.gov>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR


> Marion and Julie,
>
> Remember, the definition is in essence a two prong test:
>
> 1. specifically trained to perform a task to mitigate the disability;
> and
> 2. does not pose a direct threat.
>
> Marion is correct; this is a two pronged test, where both prongs must be
> satisfied.  In the case of a monkey, there is no doubt that monkeys are
> capable of prong #1.  However, because of the outside stimuli that may
> cause the monkey, as a breed and not necessarily individually, to go
> nutty, the second prong of the test might not be satisfied.
>
> True, both dogs and monkeys have inate abilities that lead to a better
> training experience with handlers, but the tendency to satisfy #2 lies
> with the dog and not the monkey.  It's not that the monkey is "smarter;"
> it is that the monkey is more independent minded, loud, and is capable
> of having a right old fit when it is compelled.  Dogs are by and large
> not wired that way.
>
> Craig
>
> Craig Borne
> NHTSA/DOT
> (202) 493-0627
> craig.borne at dot.gov
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:59 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR
>
> Julie,
>    The issue is whether or not the animal complies with the definition
> of a
> service animal. By this definition, the animal must be trained to
> perform a
> task. An innate ability is not a task-trained behavior. In Florida, a
> man
> carrying a snake into a Courthouse was denied access because the snake
> was
> not a service animal, even though the man said it was able to detect a
> seizure. the innate ability of the snake to detect a seizure is not
> sufficient to qualify it as a service animal, as it was not trained to
> perform any tasks to mitigate the person's disability.
>    Furthermore, it was decided that the mere presence of the snake
> created
> a direct threat that could not be mitigated by a modification of
> policies,
> practices, or procedures.
>    My understanding is that the specific issue with monkeys is that
> they
> are wild animals. though they can be tamed, they still have wild
> tendencies
> that cannot be controlled. It is also my understanding that there have
> been
> a large number of incidents in which monkeys, acting as service animals,
>
> have reacted adversely to environmental stimuli that has had negative
> consequences, supporting the aforementioned issue. the DOJ is
> considering
> banning wild and farm animals from their definition of service animals.
> Though I believe that horses may be the exception, I do not believe that
>
> some of the array of animals is appropriate as service animals. I am
> certain
> there will be some legal challenges to whatever definition the DOJ
> releases
> and we will need to let the courts vet out that issue with evidence from
>
> both sides.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- 
> From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR
>
>
> Marion even though monkeys are reacting to a stimuli with their innate
> abilities what difference does it make as long as they are performing
> the
> service that the person benefits from every time the stimuli occurs.
> Our
> dogs are trained based on their innate abilities too.
>
> Julie Phillipson
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR
>
>
> Dear All,
>    I think this is an issue we all need to be aware of and
> well-educated
> on. Though I am supportive of ann's right to use Panda, the other
> "service
> animals" mentioned in this article are not currently protected by the
> Americans with disabilities Act. The crucial part of the ADA's
> definition of
> a service animal is one that is "individually trained". The parrot and
> the
> monkey, though they may have an effect on the individual, have not been
> trained to perform that function; rather, what they do is an innate
> ability.
> It is a function of their presence, not a task for which they have been
> trained. I would like to hear other's comments.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerkutsch at yahoo.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:41 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Ann Edie - Day to day on NPR
>
>
> Helper Parrots, Guide Horses Face Legal Challenges
> NPR Listen Now [7 min 20 sec] add to playlist
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98958273
>
> Photos:
> Jim Eggers carries his parrot Sadie around with him in this cage
> converted
> into a backpack.
>
> Richard, a bonnet macaque monkey, helps Debby Rose get through the day
> without debilitating panic attacks. Read more about him on our blog.
>
> Ann Edie, who is blind, relies on Panda to guide her through her daily
> activities
>
> Day to Day, January 2, 2009 * Chances are you've seen a blind person
> accompanied by a guide dog. But what about a guide horse, a service
> parrot
> or a monkey trained to help an agoraphobic?
>
> These are just a few of the nontraditional service animals that are used
> across the country to help people with disabilities and psychological
> disorders. As their uses are expanding, however, the government is
> considering a proposal that would limit the definition of "service
> animal"
> to "a dog or other common domestic animal."
>
> In an article in the upcoming New York Times Magazine, Rebecca Skloot
> outlines why many people are upset about the pending law. Sometimes less
> familiar animals make better helpers, she tells Alex Cohen.
>
> Miniature horses, for example, live much longer than dogs, which means
> that
> their owners don't have to readjust to a new guide as often.
>
> "Horses tend to live and work into their 30s, whereas a guide dog will
> work
> six to eight years total," she explains.
>
> And while guide horses may prompt more questions when entering a store
> or
> restaurant than guide dogs, their strengths can make it worth it, she
> explains. In addition to having amazing vision, they instinctually work
> in
> synchronicity with their owner.
>
> "They are herd animals, so they naturally work really well with other
> people," she says, adding that "they are aware of their surroundings in
> a
> way dogs aren't because they are prey animals as opposed to predators."
>
> Skloot spent many hours observing how a miniature horse named Panda
> helped a
> blind woman named Ann Edie. Even after all her preparatory research,
> Skloot
> was blown away.
>
> "I could sort of envision how a horse could guide a person. But the
> level at
> which Panda guides her is amazing. In just a few blocks, I saw her
> maneuver
> around things that I, as a person that's sighted, wouldn't have thought
> of."
>
> As Panda walks, her hooves make a distinctive sound on the ground, sort
> of
> like a person walking in clogs. The pitch changes on wood, leaves,
> cement
> and metal, offering important clues for Edie about her surroundings.
> Panda
> can also use her hooves to tell Edie to step up or touch the crosswalk
> button - something a dog couldn't do.
>
> "This is a perk we didn't expect," Skloot says that Panda's trainer told
> her.
>
> A Calming Parrot
>
> The surprises don't end with horses. Jim Eggers, who suffers from
> bipolar
> disorder, accidentally discovered that his parrot can help him calm down
> and
> avoid destructive behavior.
>
> Sensing that her owner is on the verge of a psychotic episode, Sadie
> talks
> him down with, "It's OK, Jim. Calm down, Jim. You're all right, Jim. I'm
> here, Jim."
>
> He carries her around at all times in a backpack carefully fitted to
> hold
> her cage. It's not an arrangement that people are accustomed to and
> people
> are often skeptical.
>
> "The reaction from a lot of business owners and the general public is
> often
> one of suspicion, that you're making it up," Skloot says.
>
> Eggers has been told, for example, that his parrot isn't allowed on the
> bus
> with him.
>
> This is why the "service animal" definition is crucial to people such as
> Eggers and Edie. According to the American with Disabilities Act,
> service
> animals are allowed to go anywhere with their owners. Confusion stemming
> from the current law prompted a move for a more careful definition. But
> the
> proposed change would exclude birds and horses, among other animals not
> technically considered "common."
>
> This means people like Eggers and Edie will risk breaking the law if
> they
> keep their helpers.
>
> Your can read more about the proposed legislation in Skloot's article in
> The
> New York Times Magazine and see additional photos on her blog.
>
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