[nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws

Wed Jan 14 19:05:22 UTC 2009

Hi Marion,
I understand where you are coming from about how we shouldn't be exempt from 
the pooper scooper law.  According to the law - as it is written - we don't 
even have to try to pick it up and dispose of it.  Yeah, that is 
paternalistic and does give people the impression that we blind can't pick 
up after our dogs.  All of the guide dog users here, who I know of, DO pick 
up and put it in the trash.  We DO observe the law even though we are 
tecnically exempt. It's those times when there is no trash can around, 
nobody around to ask for assistance in finding one, that the exemption is 
helpful.  Who wants to put it in ones pocket??  If I have other trash, 
tissues, plastic bottles, I put those in my pocket or backpack until I get 
home or when I encounter a trash can. (I recycle the bottles!)

The reason I want to publicize the incident is not to show people that blind 
people are incompetentant.  I want to show them that the police need to be 
educated about how to deal with people with disabilities and to have a 
better knowledge of the law as it stands in the books now.  The cop didn't 
identify himself to me until, after asking me for my ID, I asked him who he 
was.  He had no radio to give himself away.  I wanted to comply but needed 
assistance in finding the can because I couldn't see for myself where one 
might be.  I asked for help and was refused and he said that I had to find 
it ON MY OWN! So, these are issues that don't have anything to do with the 
actual law.  The seargent I talked to also was just as ignorant. He thought 
I was sighted because I bent over and picked up the poop. He had no idea 
that the blind could learn how to do this task.  I've been picking up after 
my dog long before anyone thought of pooper scooper laws!  I think that this 
could be turned into a positive educational thing rather than showing people 
how the blind can't do stuff.

The other thing is that I did contact the Disability Coordinator and my City 
Councilmember's offices.  The DC said that they didn't deal with issues like 
this.  The Councilmember's staffperson didn't have a clue about something 
like this either.  I did find out that there was education for police 
officers in the past but it was discontinued some time ago because of budget 
cuts. So, we are back to square one on the education of officers in how to 
deal with people with disabilities.  They really need to do that.

Not too long ago, another blind person in our community was arrested. 
Someone ran over his cane with a bike and took off.  The blind guy ranted 
and raved and cussed big time. Someone came up to him and didn't identify 
themselves as an SDPD officer. The officer asked the blind guy to describe 
the bike rider!!!  DUH!  Now, the guy was very wrong to go ballistic on the 
cop - thus he was arrested.  He was never summoned to go to court!  So there 
is a track record of the SDPD in not having a clue - nor common sense - 
about dealing with blind or otherwise disabled people they encounter.

Marion or others, what do you do when your dog poops and you can't find a 
trash and you can't carry it forever hoping to find a trash?  Placing the 
neat, bagged poop in an out of the way place is what everyone does here when 
they can't find a trash can.  Otherwise, we either get help from a passerby 
or we are in a place where we know where a trash is.

Regards,

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws

> Linda,
>    First, I would like to say that I don't think blind people should be 
> exempt from such laws. On the contrary, I think we need to be more 
> diligent, since we are more likely than the sighted to have our dogs in 
> public. That said, it sounds as if the officers didn't know you were blind 
> due to their ignorance, not to mention their insensitivity.
>    I believe you are taking the correct action by going to the PD and your 
> ADA coordinator's office. It sounds as if you have a just cause to fight 
> the citation should you need to take it to court, as inaccessible as that 
> may be. Now, this sounds like a story: Blind woman cited for pooper 
> scooper violation can't have her day in court because she can't get there! 
> (smile) I do think, though, that making a media issue of the citation in 
> spite of the laws exemption would not serve our mission well, as it would 
> send the message that the blind are incapable of performing this simple 
> task.
>
> fraternally,
> marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com>
> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:44 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws
>
>
>> Hi All,
>> I recently got cited by the police for violating San Diego's "pooper 
>> scooper law".  Both our county and city laws exempt blind people. 
>> Curious to know if anyone else has had this problem?
>>
>> I was at a political rally at our County Administration Building last 
>> Saturday.  Landon took a dump on the grass near the street, I picked it 
>> up with a baggie, and put the package under a nearby bush out of the way. 
>> I wasn't able to find a trash can to throw it away in.
>>
>> I was talking to a lady who is in my Democratic Party club when a man 
>> came up to me to tell me I had to throw the poop in a trash can.  I told 
>> him that I was blind and can't find a trash can and asked him to show me 
>> to one and I'd be happy to do that.  He said that I had to do it myself 
>> and that he wasn't going to help me find a can.  He then asked me for my 
>> ID. Then I asked him who he was.  He answered " San Diego Police".  I 
>> again told him that I was blind and needed his help to find a trash can 
>> to throw the poop into.  Again, he said that I had to do this myself. 
>> The lady's kid offered to throw it away for me but the police had my ID 
>> and they wrote me a citation for "Dog Nuisence" and that I was to appear 
>> in Traffic Court (in an inaccessible location) in March.
>>
>> The lady I was with said that I could have avoided the ticket if I was 
>> real polite and begging for help from him.  I did tell the police officer 
>> that I was exempt from the County's law and most likely, the San Diego 
>> city law.  So, this lady wasn't at all sympathetic to me on this.  She 
>> even has a disabled son!  I was not angry or disrespectful to the cop.  I 
>> just stated facts and didn't grovel.
>>
>> I went home after the event and called the police department to place a 
>> complaint against an officer because he was totally insensitive to the 
>> fact that I couldn't find the trash can due to my blindness and for his 
>> failure to identify himself - I thought I was talking to just another 
>> person at the rally who objected to my putting the dog crap under the 
>> bush.
>>
>> I got a call back from the seargent and it turned out that the same 
>> seargent was there!  He didn't identify himself to me either!  The 
>> seargent said that he observed me letting Landon defecate, saw me 
>> competently pick it up, and throw it under the bush.  He wondered why, if 
>> I was really blind, how could I know where the pile was to pick up.  I 
>> told him that we are all trained in the arts of picking up dog crap - it 
>> was part of the curriculum of the guide dog schools.  He was surprized 
>> that the blind could learn how to find the pile their dog leaves.  So 
>> that told me that not only did he not know the law, he didn't know 
>> anything about blind people either.
>>
>> I called the office of our City Disability Coordinator and have not heard 
>> back from them yet.  I called my City Council member's office and talked 
>> to somebody there.  They thought that I would still have to go to the 
>> inaccessible Traffic Court, or maybe, they could come to a downtown 
>> location that I could get to.  He was going to check on that and get back 
>> to me. He also said he knew of someone at the Police Department who dealt 
>> with disability issues.
>>
>> Some of my friends thought I should go public with this by contacting a 
>> lawyer on KSUI-TV named Mike Turko.  He has a segment called"Turko Files" 
>> and he gets contacted by lots of people with all kinds of problems and he 
>> helps the problems to be solved and goes public with them.  My CCB (ACB) 
>> chapter members went to him about SD TRansit refusing to put bus changes 
>> and meetings in a format readable by the blind.  The website was also 
>> inaccessible as well.  After Turko did two seperate segments on KUSI-TV 
>> on this, Transit made the needed changes.  I told my friends that I'd 
>> save Turko for later if needed!
>>
>> Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do about it? Thanks.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Linda and Landon
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