[nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws

Lora and Myrtle blindhistory at gmail.com
Thu Jan 15 23:03:10 UTC 2009


I also put "presents" in my pocket if I can't find a trash can.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:28 PM, <wcmerritt at gmail.com> wrote:

> If I can't find a trash can or know that there's not one nearby, then
> I'll put the bag in my pocket for later disposal or use the direct
> approach. This means I'll walk up to an unsuspecting sighted person,
> hold the bag up, and ask them if they know where a trash is, or I
> might even ask if they want to direct me to a trashcan or take my
> "present." This has worked so far. I think that if I were in the
> incident mentioned originally, I'd just put the bag in my jacket
> pocket and wait until I reached a trash can. Though it does sound like
> a no win situation since both the woman and the "officer" refused to
> help. If I were in that situation though and two different people
> refused to help, I'd probably just drop it, since I could always
> dispose of it later.
>
> In fact, I found myself in a similar situation not long ago when my
> dog decided to leave a present on the sidewalk on the way to the bus
> transit center. I picked up the mess and then not knowing where the
> trash can was, I just put it in my jacket pocket. The pocket can zip
> shut, so I figured that the smell would stay inside the pocket, which
> it did. If anyone smelled it on the bus, there was no comment. I
> actually started to grin since I wondered if anyone could smell it,
> and if so, if they were looking at people's shoes, and then wondering
> where the smell was coming from. I eventually disposed of the present
> when I got to work, putting it in an outside trash can near the door
> to my office.
>
> I can understand the person's points in the original situation and
> that there's definitely a lack of education, I'm just not sure that
> I'd push an issue like this. Educating on topics like blind people
> have an know how to use guide dogs, Braille, equal treatment, etc,
> seem like better starting points than whether or not we're exempt from
> having to pick up the poop or not.
>
> Just my thoughts,
> Wayne
>
> On 1/14/09, lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> > Rebecca,
> > Tomorrow, when I go to the Humane Society to do our pet visitation, I'll
> go
> > across the courtyard to the Animal Control to get copies of the law.  I
> just
> > happened to think about that police station I pass on my way home.  I'll
> > stop in there armed with my copy of the law and the citation and I'll see
> if
> > they'll overturn it and have this over and done with.  I might still go
> to
> > Mike Turko and our CCB chapter to see what can be done to prevent another
> > local guide dog user from having this headache.
> >
> > Linda and Landon
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M. (TASCSD)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws
> >
> >
> >> Linda Along with the dogs, Landon also got to meet a pig. I'm sorry.
> >> Do check out the link I sent you.
> >> My other question is why NFB isn't doing more to educate police
> >> officers.
> >> In the two guide dog discrimination cases I was involved with, the
> >> police were useless and treated it as a civil matter, not an aDA issue.
> >> The first officer had never heard of the Ada, and the second time, the
> >> officer responding had maybe heard of it but didn't know "how it applied
> >> here".
> >> It seems likeNFB could learn from the gay and lesbian communities, and
> >> also the transgender community on issues dealing with the police.
> >> Why can't a course be part of the police academy training?
> >> This seems to be a problem NFB has no interest in. Why?
> >> Lastly Linda, have you contacted the police chieff, the mayor, (who I
> >> think appoints the police chief), and also the sheriff? Both themayor
> >> and sheriff are elected officials andshould by the nature of their
> >> position respond to you.
> >> In my situations, I did everything I suggested with good results, though
> >> my criteria for "good' is limited in that I haven't had any guide dog
> >> discrimination issues, or dealings with the police.
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:20 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws
> >>
> >> Hi Rebecca,
> >> That was funny about the Democrats and Republicans.  Actually, the rally
> >> was a bipartisan one - No on Prop 8 Marriage Equality For All Campaign.
> >> If I can enjoy marriage, so should my gay and lesbian brothers and
> >> sisters. Landon loves those rallies and marches - lots of nice dogs to
> >> meet! (smile!)
> >>
> >> Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.  That's funny about your dog
> >> pooping near a Democrat's sign.  Maybe other dogs did the same and he
> >> smelled it and added his own commentary.  I'm a lifelong Democrat but I
> >> function more like an Independent.  I have worked for Republicans who
> >> were more progressive.
> >> There haven't been many of those because of the neoconservatives and
> >> other fanatics who have commendeered the Republican Party over the last
> >> 30 years!
> >> I did vote for the Republican in this year's City Attorney race because
> >> I thought the Democratic incumbant was an idiot.  (grin!)
> >>
> >> Well, one way or another, I will both fight the citation and educate
> >> folks.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Linda and Landon
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M. (TASCSD)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:22 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws
> >>
> >>
> >>> Linda,
> >>> Know too that the policeman may indeed be a Democrat, who was upset at
> >>> your dog's comment on the event.
> >>> My previous Leader Dog without fail would always take me to a
> >> Republican
> >>> sign, and she would poop near Democrat ones.
> >>> I have no idea how she knew.
> >>> Maybe your dog is the Rrepublican and was displeased about the rally?
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:05 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws
> >>>
> >>> Linda,
> >>>    First, I would like to say that I don't think blind people should
> >> be
> >>> exempt from such laws. On the contrary, I think we need to be more
> >>> diligent, since we are more likely than the sighted to have our dogs
> >> in
> >>> public. That said, it sounds as if the officers didn't know you were
> >>> blind due to their ignorance, not to mention their insensitivity.
> >>>    I believe you are taking the correct action by going to the PD and
> >>> your ADA coordinator's office. It sounds as if you have a just cause
> >> to
> >>> fight the citation should you need to take it to court, as
> >> inaccessible
> >>> as that may be. Now, this sounds like a story: Blind woman cited for
> >>> pooper scooper violation can't have her day in court because she can't
> >>> get there! (smile) I do think, though, that making a media issue of
> >> the
> >>> citation in spite of the laws exemption would not serve our mission
> >>> well, as it would send the message that the blind are incapable of
> >>> performing this simple task.
> >>>
> >>> fraternally,
> >>> marion
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com>
> >>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> Users"
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:44 PM
> >>> Subject: [nagdu] Pooper Scooper Laws
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>> I recently got cited by the police for violating San Diego's "pooper
> >>>> scooper law".  Both our county and city laws exempt blind people.
> >>> Curious
> >>>> to know if anyone else has had this problem?
> >>>>
> >>>> I was at a political rally at our County Administration Building last
> >>>> Saturday.  Landon took a dump on the grass near the street, I picked
> >>> it up
> >>>> with a baggie, and put the package under a nearby bush out of the
> >> way.
> >>> I
> >>>> wasn't able to find a trash can to throw it away in.
> >>>>
> >>>> I was talking to a lady who is in my Democratic Party club when a man
> >>> came
> >>>> up to me to tell me I had to throw the poop in a trash can.  I told
> >>> him
> >>>> that I was blind and can't find a trash can and asked him to show me
> >>> to
> >>>> one and I'd be happy to do that.  He said that I had to do it myself
> >>> and
> >>>> that he wasn't going to help me find a can.  He then asked me for my
> >>> ID.
> >>>> Then I asked him who he was.  He answered " San Diego Police".  I
> >>> again
> >>>> told him that I was blind and needed his help to find a trash can to
> >>> throw
> >>>> the poop into.  Again, he said that I had to do this myself.  The
> >>> lady's
> >>>> kid offered to throw it away for me but the police had my ID and they
> >>>> wrote me a citation for "Dog Nuisence" and that I was to appear in
> >>> Traffic
> >>>> Court (in an inaccessible location) in March.
> >>>>
> >>>> The lady I was with said that I could have avoided the ticket if I
> >> was
> >>>
> >>>> real polite and begging for help from him.  I did tell the police
> >>> officer
> >>>> that I was exempt from the County's law and most likely, the San
> >> Diego
> >>>
> >>>> city law.  So, this lady wasn't at all sympathetic to me on this.
> >> She
> >>>
> >>>> even has a disabled son!  I was not angry or disrespectful to the
> >> cop.
> >>> I
> >>>> just stated facts and didn't grovel.
> >>>>
> >>>> I went home after the event and called the police department to place
> >>> a
> >>>> complaint against an officer because he was totally insensitive to
> >> the
> >>>
> >>>> fact that I couldn't find the trash can due to my blindness and for
> >>> his
> >>>> failure to identify himself - I thought I was talking to just another
> >>>> person at the rally who objected to my putting the dog crap under the
> >>>> bush.
> >>>>
> >>>> I got a call back from the seargent and it turned out that the same
> >>>> seargent was there!  He didn't identify himself to me either!  The
> >>>> seargent said that he observed me letting Landon defecate, saw me
> >>>> competently pick it up, and throw it under the bush.  He wondered
> >> why,
> >>> if
> >>>> I was really blind, how could I know where the pile was to pick up.
> >> I
> >>>
> >>>> told him that we are all trained in the arts of picking up dog crap -
> >>> it
> >>>> was part of the curriculum of the guide dog schools.  He was
> >> surprized
> >>>
> >>>> that the blind could learn how to find the pile their dog leaves.  So
> >>> that
> >>>> told me that not only did he not know the law, he didn't know
> >> anything
> >>>
> >>>> about blind people either.
> >>>>
> >>>> I called the office of our City Disability Coordinator and have not
> >>> heard
> >>>> back from them yet.  I called my City Council member's office and
> >>> talked
> >>>> to somebody there.  They thought that I would still have to go to the
> >>>> inaccessible Traffic Court, or maybe, they could come to a downtown
> >>>> location that I could get to.  He was going to check on that and get
> >>> back
> >>>> to me. He also said he knew of someone at the Police Department who
> >>> dealt
> >>>> with disability issues.
> >>>>
> >>>> Some of my friends thought I should go public with this by contacting
> >>> a
> >>>> lawyer on KSUI-TV named Mike Turko.  He has a segment called"Turko
> >>> Files"
> >>>> and he gets contacted by lots of people with all kinds of problems
> >> and
> >>> he
> >>>> helps the problems to be solved and goes public with them.  My CCB
> >>> (ACB)
> >>>> chapter members went to him about SD TRansit refusing to put bus
> >>> changes
> >>>> and meetings in a format readable by the blind.  The website was also
> >>>> inaccessible as well.  After Turko did two seperate segments on
> >>> KUSI-TV on
> >>>> this, Transit made the needed changes.  I told my friends that I'd
> >>> save
> >>>> Turko for later if needed!
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone else had this problem and what did you do about it?
> >> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Linda and Landon
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nagdu mailing list
> >>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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> >>>> nagdu:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40ve
> >>> rizon.net
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>
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> >> oplepc.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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>
>
> --
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> http://wayneism.blogspot.com
> My websites:
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> www.whitecaneday.org
>
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-- 
Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle



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