[nagdu] Questions about Federal regs regarding paratransit
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Sat Jan 24 09:19:00 UTC 2009
Hi, Linda and Everyone,
Linda, in this case I must agree with what Chasity and Angie have said, that
I am not required to accept accommodations that someone else, no matter how
well-meaning, assumes I want or need, just so that that person will have a
favorable opinion of blind people and will be willing and happy to provide
the same accommodation to another blind person later. Now, let me assure
you, that I would not intentionally "snap" at the person offering me an
unwanted accommodation or help. I would politely decline the offered help.
But if the person insisted that I should or "had to" accept the
accommodation, I would certainly firmly refuse the supposed "help".
Perhaps it cannot be avoided that one blind person will represent all blind
people to an individual who has never interacted with a blind person before.
But, if this is the case, then I would rather present blind people as
autonomous human beings who can and do make their own decisions, rather than
as helpless "wards" of society who require others to look out for their
needs all the time, and who have to just wait until some kind soul provides
them with whatever they need in any situation.
I will illustrate my thinking with a couple of recent examples:
A few days ago, I was walking somewhere in my own town at about 3 o'clock on
a weekday afternoon, which happens to be dismissal time at the local high
school which is a couple of blocks from my home. I had walked to the corner
to cross the main street near the high school and pressed the button for the
audible signal and was waiting for the walk cycle to begin so that I could
cross the street. There were several school busses passing or waiting to
turn onto the main street, so I had to listen carefully to hear cars and
quieter vehicles over the noise of the bus engines. Suddenly, a woman's
voice from the far side of the street called, "Go ahead and cross."
I called back, "Thanks, I'm fine." (It has been my experience that I am
better off not depending on the advice of passers-by on when to cross
streets,but rather to depend on my own skills in listening to and judging
the traffic, on the training of my guide horse, and at this particular
intersection, on the audible signal.)
Usually, when I smile and say that I am fine, the person takes me at my word
and moves along. But in this case, the person again shouted, "Go ahead and
cross now." Since the audible signal had not sounded, I still did not move
into the intersection.
Should I have "smiled and accepted this person's help" regardless of my own
judgement of what is best for my safety, just so that the person would have
a good impression of blind people and would be willing to offer help to the
next blind person she encountered? Maybe this is your feeling, but I am not
willing to risk my safety, so that a well-meaning, but unintentionally
interfering stranger can go away with warm, fuzzy feelings about having
helped a poor, blind lady.
Here is another example: I am an itinerant teacher of blind children. I
have a student in a 4th grade class in one school. The classroom teacher in
my student's class is very nice, and I like her a lot. But she has an
annoying habit of trying to do more things for me than I want or need, and
of asking the students to do things for me as well.
For example, she will insist on grabbing the braillewriter from the shelf
where it is kept and bringing it to the table where I work with my student,
instead of letting me get it or letting me ask my student to get it and
carry it to the table. Or, if the class is going to be moving to one corner
of the room to share the reading of a book, the teacher will ask a student
to move a chair to that area for me, rather than letting me move my own
chair into place. These are things which I don't believe the teacher would
think of doing for the many other teachers, therapists, and aides who work
in the class.
These constant "offers" of help make me feel very uncomfortable for several
reasons: First of all, I simply don't need the help, and if there is a
situation where I don't know where something is, or where I do need some
other type of help, I am perfectly capable of asking for information or
assistance.
Secondly, I am trying to teach my blind student by example to be more
independent. How can I do this if I am seen as a person who "needs" help to
do the simplest things?
Thirdly, I would like to educate the other students in the class and in the
school in general about the "normalcy" of blindness and about the ordinary
capabilities of blind people, so that they will have realistic, high
expectations for the abilities of my blind students as well as for any other
blind or otherwise disabled people they encounter in their lives. How can I
do this if I accept "help" with so many trivial, everyday tasks?
I have tried smiling politely and declining the teacher's "offers" of help.
But I have found that this simply does not work. I do not snap at the
teacher; that would be unprofessional. But I have had to go ahead and do
some of the things that the teacher has asked a student to do for me, just
to make the point that I am perfectly capable of doing these simple things
for myself, and that I prefer it that way.
I certainly would not go to the teacher's supervisor and expect the
supervisor to educate the teacher on my behalf. I have had several private,
cheerful, non-confrontational conversations with the teacher on the subject
of help versus independence, and she seems to understand my views in the
abstract. But it seems that people need many concrete, practical
demonstrations that blind people can do for themselves, in order to
internalize this fact.
I don't think we do ourselves any good by meakly accepting help or
accommodations that we don't want or need. We can certainly try our best to
decline unwanted help politely and to explain why we don't want the help.
But there is usually not time for lengthy explanations. And sometimes it
simply comes down to a choice between being humiliated by accepting
custodial treatment or seeming "uppity" or rude by refusing well-meaning
assistance. In such cases, I will opt for preserving my self-respect by
declining or ignoring the proffered help and doing for myself what I feel
perfectly capable of doing.
By the way, I don't feel the need to "prove" that I can be 100% independent,
or to insist on doing things myself when that is inefficient or would
greatly inconvenience others. But when it comes to simply carrying out the
everyday functions of living as an adult, I don't think we have to
relinquish our independence or our self-respect just to pander to others'
need to feel helpful.
AS always, these are just my humble opinions, for your consideration.
Best,
Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: <lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions about Federal regs regarding paratransit
> Hi Chasity,
> Don't you think there may have been a better way to deal with the
> supervisor on the train? Don't you think it would have been better to
> smile, take the seat and then deal with it later with the train's higher
> ups? Wouldn't it be less stressful for you to just wait til later and talk
> to the guy's boss?
>
> To me, this would have made the supervisors want to say, "The hell with
> those @%&* blind people!" OK, maybe you wanted to stand, but I can't
> stand much with my knees and feet. The rememberance of the nasty blind gal
> would make him less likely to give assistance to a blind person who really
> did need that kind of help.
>
> Please everyone, please think before you snap at people who are wanting to
> be helpful. I know it gets old and it's hard sometimes (grin!). Just
> smile and say thank you and then deal with their boss. I have had people
> say to me that they were reluctant to give me assistance because of a
> negative reaction from another blind person.
>
> The supervisor should have respected your wishes to stand on the train -
> for sure. If you talked to the supervisor's boss, then that education
> coould happen and they'd learn that not all blind people's needs or wants
> are alike.
>
> Chasity, pleasse don't take this as me dumping on you - I understand the
> frustration all too well of over zeolous "helpers" around! I'm just
> saying not to get nasty at these people - they're probably doing their job
> as they've been told by their boss. (smile!)
> Regards,
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 7:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions about Federal regs regarding paratransit
>
>
>> HI Marion,
>>
>> Actually, when I make a reservation on paratransit, they do always ask
>> "Will your service animal be with you?" Also, when I call cabs they do
>> the same thing. So what do you advise we tell them when they ask?
>>
>> As far as transportation and people making choices for you...I had this
>> happen while traveling with my dog about a month ago. I was standing at a
>> metrolink station waiting for the train. Chris and I had his luggage,
>> because he had just returned home from a visit with his family. We only
>> had to go one or two stops, so since we had the luggage, we wanted to
>> stand. As we were standing there waiting for the train, there were two
>> security guards and their supervisor standing behind us. I heard the
>> supervisor tell the security people, "As soon as the train gets here, go
>> on and make the person in the front seat move, and put these people
>> there." I turned around and told her it was not necessary to help and
>> we've done this before. She said, "Yes, but I'm their supervisor." Just
>> then, the train came, and we got on board, and stood and held the poll.
>> One of the security guards started yelling, "Ma'am, over here, over here.
>> Sit in this seat up front." I calmly said, "I have it under control,
>> thanks." And then she came over and said, "My supervisor said you have to
>> sit up front," and I snapped back, "I don't *have* to do anything!" So
>> finally they got off the train and we had a smooth ride.
>>
>> Chasity
>> Check out the tribute page I created for my guide dog Vanda at:
>> www.myspace.com/vandaandchasity
>> Listen to my radio show every Thursday from 4-7pm on the Q Online:
>> www.theqonline.net
>> Visit my MySpace page and add me at
>> www.myspace.com/chasityandvanda
>> Listen to my podcast at:
>> http://www.gcast.com/u/Chasityvanda/main.xml
>> Or by phone at: (559) 553-4627
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 7:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions about Federal regs regarding paratransit
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> the problem that arises when one is asked about whether a service
>>> animal will be accompanying a person is the potential for
>>> discrimination. This may not occur with paratransit, however, it could
>>> happen with private transportation services. For instance, if a taxi
>>> company flags someone in their system and, when that person calls for a
>>> ride is asked the same question, it could result in an unequal
>>> treatment. Should the dispatcher place a call for a pick-up in what is
>>> known as a "bid" system in which the call is placed and drivers respond
>>> that they are willing to take the fare, as is true here in Tampa, we
>>> could wait an inordinate amount of time for a ride. If the dispatcher
>>> says, "I have a fare with a dog in zone 50." and drivers are not willing
>>> to take my dog, they will not bid on that fare and I am being
>>> discriminated against because of my choice to use a guide dog.
>>> Another instance is with the airlines. If you tell them in advance
>>> that you will be accompanied by a service animal, any of the personnel
>>> who have access to your information will see that and make certain
>>> assumptions "in your best interest"! For instance, they will
>>> automatically assume you want to sit in the bulkhead (or not), that you
>>> will want to pre-board, will need certain assistance, etc. Frequently
>>> airline personnel will insist that you accept such accomodation, whether
>>> or not you want them and, when you decline them, insist it is "Federal
>>> regulation", which it is not. In fact, Federal regulations say we have
>>> the right to refuse any accommodation. HTH!
>>>
>>> Fraternally,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Margo and Elmo" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions about Federal regs regarding paratransit
>>>
>>>
>>>> Charlene, I just spoke with a couple of folks in the know about these
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> Generally speaking, they are not doing anything illegal by asking you
>>>> to mention that your guide dog is accompanying you on each trip. Now,
>>>> it was suggested to me that perhaps it might be possible that the
>>>> paratransit service might be using an outdated software program on
>>>> their computers. it was further suggested that they look at a software
>>>> called Trapeze which is extremely accurate--not perfect but accurate.
>>>> For example, our paratransis sytem which is a very good and reliable
>>>> system uses Trapeze. On the application I filled out, I checked that I
>>>> have a guide dog. that info went into my records on this software and
>>>> that fact automatically goes into my trip when I make a paratransit
>>>> reservation. the reason they like to know these things is to ensure
>>>> comfortable space for the dog. They also know about scooters,
>>>> wheelchairs, PCA's and such to ensure space on the van.
>>>>
>>>> hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> margo and Elmo
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:27 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Questions about Federal regs regarding paratransit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Several of us in Hawaii are having a problem with guide dogs on
>>>>> paratransit.
>>>>> We've all notified the company and validated that the fact that we
>>>>> have
>>>>> guide dogs is in our records and the reservationists see this at the
>>>>> time we
>>>>> make reservations. However, even so, we're having a problem if we
>>>>> make a
>>>>> reservation when we are picked up we are at times given a hard time
>>>>> about
>>>>> because we didn't tell the reservationists that we have a service dog.
>>>>> The
>>>>> other day I was almost put out of a cab from one of the companies that
>>>>> paratransit contracts with. When I pointed out to the reservationists
>>>>> that
>>>>> it is in my record that I have a guide dog so why do I have to tell
>>>>> you
>>>>> every time that I take him she kept arguing that it's assumed that if
>>>>> you
>>>>> don't mention that you're taking the dog then you're not taking the
>>>>> dog. She
>>>>> compared it to having a PCA. I tried to tell them that it's actually
>>>>> the
>>>>> norm for me to have my guide dog with me, but this didn't matter to
>>>>> her.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, my question is, can we be put off of paratransit if we don't
>>>>> specifically mention our dog every time we make a reservation? Is a
>>>>> service
>>>>> dog or guide dog comparable to a PCA? Personally, I think this is
>>>>> going too
>>>>> far and it is verging on discrimination. Also, one final question,
>>>>> are our
>>>>> HIPA rights violated when our information is discussed over the air of
>>>>> the
>>>>> radio or cell phone with the drivers? To me, paratransit is public
>>>>> transportation and I don't feel they have the right to do some of
>>>>> these
>>>>> things. But, I need the Federal regs to do much about the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlene
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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