[nagdu] allergies v. service animals

Charlene Ota caota at hawaii.rr.com
Fri Jan 30 03:52:21 UTC 2009 

I think people think they can bug us about our dogs but they can't bug each
other about their perfumes.  You know how it is, easier to confront them
because dogs aren't human or something.  Anyway, that's probably what's
behind that because it really doesn't make much sense, but people have been
pushing us around for a long time and they're still trying.  (smile!) 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Nicole B. Torcolini
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:14 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals

If you're going to complain about dog allergies in church, let's start
complaining about perfume. Why is it okay for people to wear perfume, but
not for us to bring dogs?  I just don't get some people sometimes. Maybe we
should make a joke about it and put perfume on the dog when it goes to
church.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals


Oh boy, you guys, you've just done my heart good with this discussion!!!

When people where I go to church found out I was getting a guide dog, there
were some who made me feel a whole lot less than welcome.  The pastor's wife
asked me: "You're not going to bring that dog to church are you?" I said yes
I am and she pointed out about the people who have allergies, you know.  And
why did I have to bring it to church. I finally said I could go elsewhere if
that would be better!  That kind of stopped that particular conversation,
but others had their digs, too.  Finally, we were sent an e-mail by the
person who helps find transportation who proceeded to tell us that now we'd
made it just too difficult for her to find us a ride so we could just take
care of it ourselves from now on and why did we have to bring that dog since
you know there are people including "the writer of the e-mail) who have
allergies, you know! And on and on!  Now, don't you think it was interesting
that for a couple of years, this lawyer friend of the pastor's wife could
bring her stupid little dog in a bag because the dog had separation anxiety
so she couldn't leave it home? Nobody gave her a hard time but rolled out
the red carpet because I guess she wasn't quite the second-class citezen
like me.  My husband still goes back evenings to play the organ oon Sundays,
but I have a hard time with it and don't show up there very often.  We've
found a much better place to go Sunday mornings.  They're so sheltered, they
can't even stand having an interpreter there if someone deaf attends the
church.  It's pitiful that's how the attitude is in some of our churches.  I
know that some of that congregation don't feel the same way, but somehow,
it's just not very welcoming to know that there are enough who do and
they're the ones that don't waste any time making their views known, either.
Funny thing, too, one evening at a potluck, someone sat me down by one of
the complainers and before I could even turn around to say hello they were
gone.  And yet, that person is such a pillar in the church, whatever!

Sorry guys, but guess you got my venting, but it feels good to share it and
get it out!

Charlene



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:25 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals

Bunny,

Well put!  I've attempted to express the same thing on the issue a fuew
times but end up getting super snarly and have to give it up.  /smile/  Like
you, I know people who take responsibility for their own allergies and
asthma, as well as for MCS and the like.  But I know too many others who
honestly expect everyone around them, including the general public, to go
through enormous efforts so the allergy-sufferer won't have to take a
pill...  The same principle, IMO, applies to people with dog phobias.
Xanax, anyone?  Every heard of a shrink?  /smile/  If you would prefer to
move from the priority seating area (as they call it here) where you didn't
belong in the first place without a fuss, then you are welcome to deal with
your fears and anxieties as you see fit, and I respect your decision.  Just
don't expect me to deal with them, thank you.  I had this happen once, only
the person across the aisle spent much of the bus ride telling me that the
person I heard moving away was afraid of my dog, didn't I think?  She got
off where I did and needed our guidance to the train, so had plenty of
opportunity to repeat herself on the subject.  /lol/  Since it wasn't any of
her business, I just repeated nonchalantly that I didn't know, perhaps it
was so, but since the other woman moved away from the dog it was a nonissue
as far as I could tell.  /lol/  I gave a more coherent, informative answer
the first time she brought it up, of course; but sometimes people just won't
let things go, so the best one can do is repeatedly refuse to give them what
they want (I couldn't tell and didn't care, frankly).  Has anyone ever
noticed that dogs and horses, even cats, get the reward refusal aspect of
operant conditioning far more quickly than supposedly intelligent humans?
/snotty smile/  I prefer to deal more directly and assertively, frankly, but
I have discovered in my new life as a blind person that it doesn't seem to
work as well with some people for some reason.  If they won't back off when
asked firmly and reasonably, I've stopped wasting my energy on giving them a
reaction.  Sigh.

Back to the subject.  A majority of our dogs' rearing and training goes to
ensuring that the working guide will be able to go into any human situation
with manners above reproach at all times.  We're taught to maintain
exceptional grooming and health standards to ensure our dogs are fit to go
into restaurants and grocery stores.  Guide dogs schools have, for a number
of years, been working with various hypo-allergenic breeds to address the
issue of allergies and asthma, not only for blind allergy-sufferers, but
also for the sake of allergic family members, etc.  And, to throw in phobias
again, the majority of our dogs are specifically bred to be nonaggressive
from the get-go, while every aspect of their socialization and training is
designed to reinforce their lack of aggression.  The owner-trainers I know
all test their prospects for aggression before anything else and are ready
to retire a dog in a heartbeat if it shows aggression at any time during the
training process.  I had a scare that way during convention, even though my
youngster had never shown the least sign before.  Further observation back
in our natural habitat and as we settled into a new home with another dog,
who can be aggressive, showed that Mitzi was still the peace-loving soul
she's always been, if a sometimes very snotty soul.  Thank heavens I was
able to address the behavior effectively.  I haven't had a chance to see if
it recurs in the presence of other guide dogs yet, but at least I know I can
deal with it at the first sign.  Before it gets out of hand.  Live and
learn.

The point being that we take extraordinary efforts to avoid any negative
impact on the public from our dogs before we ever put on the harness and
head out the door.  We just accept that this is going to be a natural part
of our lifestyle and a significant chunk of our daily schedules -- not to
mention our budgets! -- as part of the package that falls under the heading
"guide dog user."  So, no, we should not have to put up with being hassled
or interfered with or to have to jump through hoops because others won't
take responsibility for their own issues.  Now to convince those folks who
simply can't grasp that simple concept...

But that's why we organize and lobby and work collectively to address
individual instances legally and discuss ways to deal with the hassles
proactively yet positively (it would be more satisfying to bite people
sometimes; metaphorically, or course) without giving up our self-respect and
independence by letting others infringe on our rights by just taking it so
people won't think we're not nice, non-uppity blind people...

It's always great to hear other guide dog users' experiences and their
responses to them, along with the discussions about the various points of
view on one should or should not, along with how one actualy does at the
time (not always the same thing; at least, not for me!).  And it's also nice
to have a forum to discuss my own learning progress with people who actually
understand the issues.  /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Bunny Davidson
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:07 AM
To: National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals


HI all,

It is my opinion that there are those among the general public who feel &
express that their needs superseed the needs of anyone in the minority -be
it anyone they consider not as good as them- like race, sex, education,
sight, mobility, hearing, whatever- there is a sense of superiority and
entitlement that abounds in our society...

this is why our goverment had to make laws saying discrimination is illegal
in the first place!  yet with laws and laws you still cant legislate
selfishness and piosness in people.

As for the airline dealing (or NOT) with pets, service animals and passenger
sensitivity issues... It is my opinion that a person with a service dog
should not have to jump thru hoops to claim their seat on the plane- no
prior notice should be required from the disabled with service animals, and
anyone on plane who has a non lethal or non disability condition who
complains or wants to make a commotion about the service dog... should be
given the option of moving their seat if possable, or being quiet - it is my
opinion anyone with allergies or asma should not go to confined places
without their meidications, inhailers et... unfortunatley we as disabled
needing service animals can not remidy our situations with meds or
inhailers-thus it is not our problem!


For instance, my brother is very very allergic to cats and to perfumes... he
carries antihistimine pills and an inhailer because as a plumber he has to
go to work in peoples homes who have cats and wear fragrances...air
fresheners et...  he learned years ago, that without his meds his eyes
swell, he cant breath and may need the emergency room.  so HE IS RESPONSABLE
TO PROTECT HIMSELF!  Not tell all his customers they must get their cats
out, clean their homes, and air it all out without chemicals so he can
install a toilet!!!

so why shouldnt they who have allergies who must fly carry their medicines
and be pro active rather than try to make the citizens of a free country
like ours who use s.a. jump thru hoops or try to pass rules where we cant
use our animals????

If my brother has to fly on the plane, he doesnt go around the plane like a
victim of "her perfume" or " his aftershave" demanding these folks go wash
off their sents!!! No , he takes his medicine before he boards!

this whole allergy thing is just another excuse by the selfish public to
deny the disabled their rights to use whatever mobility /functioning aids
they can to live an independent and peacefull life...

come on, who needs all this attention (neg. attention) every time we want to
fly, go out to eat et... I prefer to be left the heck alone when im eating,
not have some know it all who never read the ada, tell me I cant have my dog
, or need certification papers or some other nauseating harrasment!

ok, im done now-  ah...............thats righ, breathe!

oh btw, yesterday My Service dog and I enjoyed a beatuful birthday dinner
out - since we had over a foot of snow, no one was in the restarant except
us =up untill the end of the meal...= A which time some customer walked in
to be seated behind the hostess and says oh... look the puppy -yeckity
yeckity yeckity as she goes right over and gets my dog all stired up, pets
ontop of the "service dog do not pet"
badge on the top of the vest!!!  So of course, i had to say, mam please
dont- the dog is working, your attention to her can be dangerous to me as
she can not do her job if you are interfearing by petting, talking and
playing with her... oh well most of the dinner was peacefull! lol

respectfully
bunny

<<Well, Becca:The answer is that, as Mike pointed out, the needs of the
disabled are notconsidered as important as those of pretty much anyone,
includingallergy-sufferers.Despite my sarcasm in a previous post, I can
understand that allergies canbe severe or unpleasant. It seems to me,
though, that the user of a serviceanimal need not, nor should he be, the one
required to make theaccommodation. Plus allergies aren't considered,
legally, a disability.Most allergy-sufferers I know, including my sister,
wouldn't want themselvesconsidered disabled as it might limit their choice
of work, etc.  Dan >>
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