[nagdu] allergies v. service animals

[Margo and Elmo]

charlene, your experience with the church is unfortunately one we all too 
often experience.  I'm glad you have a better church to go to or place to go 
to sundays.

Margo and Elmo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals


> Oh boy, you guys, you've just done my heart good with this discussion!!!
>
> When people where I go to church found out I was getting a guide dog, 
> there
> were some who made me feel a whole lot less than welcome.  The pastor's 
> wife
> asked me: "You're not going to bring that dog to church are you?" I said 
> yes
> I am and she pointed out about the people who have allergies, you know. 
> And
> why did I have to bring it to church. I finally said I could go elsewhere 
> if
> that would be better!  That kind of stopped that particular conversation,
> but others had their digs, too.  Finally, we were sent an e-mail by the
> person who helps find transportation who proceeded to tell us that now 
> we'd
> made it just too difficult for her to find us a ride so we could just take
> care of it ourselves from now on and why did we have to bring that dog 
> since
> you know there are people including "the writer of the e-mail) who have
> allergies, you know! And on and on!  Now, don't you think it was 
> interesting
> that for a couple of years, this lawyer friend of the pastor's wife could
> bring her stupid little dog in a bag because the dog had separation 
> anxiety
> so she couldn't leave it home? Nobody gave her a hard time but rolled out
> the red carpet because I guess she wasn't quite the second-class citezen
> like me.  My husband still goes back evenings to play the organ oon 
> Sundays,
> but I have a hard time with it and don't show up there very often.  We've
> found a much better place to go Sunday mornings.  They're so sheltered, 
> they
> can't even stand having an interpreter there if someone deaf attends the
> church.  It's pitiful that's how the attitude is in some of our churches. 
> I
> know that some of that congregation don't feel the same way, but somehow,
> it's just not very welcoming to know that there are enough who do and
> they're the ones that don't waste any time making their views known, 
> either.
> Funny thing, too, one evening at a potluck, someone sat me down by one of
> the complainers and before I could even turn around to say hello they were
> gone.  And yet, that person is such a pillar in the church, whatever!
>
> Sorry guys, but guess you got my venting, but it feels good to share it 
> and
> get it out!
>
> Charlene
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:25 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals
>
> Bunny,
>
> Well put!  I've attempted to express the same thing on the issue a fuew
> times but end up getting super snarly and have to give it up.  /smile/ 
> Like
> you, I know people who take responsibility for their own allergies and
> asthma, as well as for MCS and the like.  But I know too many others who
> honestly expect everyone around them, including the general public, to go
> through enormous efforts so the allergy-sufferer won't have to take a
> pill...  The same principle, IMO, applies to people with dog phobias.
> Xanax, anyone?  Every heard of a shrink?  /smile/  If you would prefer to
> move from the priority seating area (as they call it here) where you 
> didn't
> belong in the first place without a fuss, then you are welcome to deal 
> with
> your fears and anxieties as you see fit, and I respect your decision. 
> Just
> don't expect me to deal with them, thank you.  I had this happen once, 
> only
> the person across the aisle spent much of the bus ride telling me that the
> person I heard moving away was afraid of my dog, didn't I think?  She got
> off where I did and needed our guidance to the train, so had plenty of
> opportunity to repeat herself on the subject.  /lol/  Since it wasn't any 
> of
> her business, I just repeated nonchalantly that I didn't know, perhaps it
> was so, but since the other woman moved away from the dog it was a 
> nonissue
> as far as I could tell.  /lol/  I gave a more coherent, informative answer
> the first time she brought it up, of course; but sometimes people just 
> won't
> let things go, so the best one can do is repeatedly refuse to give them 
> what
> they want (I couldn't tell and didn't care, frankly).  Has anyone ever
> noticed that dogs and horses, even cats, get the reward refusal aspect of
> operant conditioning far more quickly than supposedly intelligent humans?
> /snotty smile/  I prefer to deal more directly and assertively, frankly, 
> but
> I have discovered in my new life as a blind person that it doesn't seem to
> work as well with some people for some reason.  If they won't back off 
> when
> asked firmly and reasonably, I've stopped wasting my energy on giving them 
> a
> reaction.  Sigh.
>
> Back to the subject.  A majority of our dogs' rearing and training goes to
> ensuring that the working guide will be able to go into any human 
> situation
> with manners above reproach at all times.  We're taught to maintain
> exceptional grooming and health standards to ensure our dogs are fit to go
> into restaurants and grocery stores.  Guide dogs schools have, for a 
> number
> of years, been working with various hypo-allergenic breeds to address the
> issue of allergies and asthma, not only for blind allergy-sufferers, but
> also for the sake of allergic family members, etc.  And, to throw in 
> phobias
> again, the majority of our dogs are specifically bred to be nonaggressive
> from the get-go, while every aspect of their socialization and training is
> designed to reinforce their lack of aggression.  The owner-trainers I know
> all test their prospects for aggression before anything else and are ready
> to retire a dog in a heartbeat if it shows aggression at any time during 
> the
> training process.  I had a scare that way during convention, even though 
> my
> youngster had never shown the least sign before.  Further observation back
> in our natural habitat and as we settled into a new home with another dog,
> who can be aggressive, showed that Mitzi was still the peace-loving soul
> she's always been, if a sometimes very snotty soul.  Thank heavens I was
> able to address the behavior effectively.  I haven't had a chance to see 
> if
> it recurs in the presence of other guide dogs yet, but at least I know I 
> can
> deal with it at the first sign.  Before it gets out of hand.  Live and
> learn.
>
> The point being that we take extraordinary efforts to avoid any negative
> impact on the public from our dogs before we ever put on the harness and
> head out the door.  We just accept that this is going to be a natural part
> of our lifestyle and a significant chunk of our daily schedules -- not to
> mention our budgets! -- as part of the package that falls under the 
> heading
> "guide dog user."  So, no, we should not have to put up with being hassled
> or interfered with or to have to jump through hoops because others won't
> take responsibility for their own issues.  Now to convince those folks who
> simply can't grasp that simple concept...
>
> But that's why we organize and lobby and work collectively to address
> individual instances legally and discuss ways to deal with the hassles
> proactively yet positively (it would be more satisfying to bite people
> sometimes; metaphorically, or course) without giving up our self-respect 
> and
> independence by letting others infringe on our rights by just taking it so
> people won't think we're not nice, non-uppity blind people...
>
> It's always great to hear other guide dog users' experiences and their
> responses to them, along with the discussions about the various points of
> view on one should or should not, along with how one actualy does at the
> time (not always the same thing; at least, not for me!).  And it's also 
> nice
> to have a forum to discuss my own learning progress with people who 
> actually
> understand the issues.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Bunny Davidson
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:07 AM
> To: National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals
>
>
> HI all,
>
> It is my opinion that there are those among the general public who feel &
> express that their needs superseed the needs of anyone in the minority -be
> it anyone they consider not as good as them- like race, sex, education,
> sight, mobility, hearing, whatever- there is a sense of superiority and
> entitlement that abounds in our society...
>
> this is why our goverment had to make laws saying discrimination is 
> illegal
> in the first place!  yet with laws and laws you still cant legislate
> selfishness and piosness in people.
>
> As for the airline dealing (or NOT) with pets, service animals and 
> passenger
> sensitivity issues... It is my opinion that a person with a service dog
> should not have to jump thru hoops to claim their seat on the plane- no
> prior notice should be required from the disabled with service animals, 
> and
> anyone on plane who has a non lethal or non disability condition who
> complains or wants to make a commotion about the service dog... should be
> given the option of moving their seat if possable, or being quiet - it is 
> my
> opinion anyone with allergies or asma should not go to confined places
> without their meidications, inhailers et... unfortunatley we as disabled
> needing service animals can not remidy our situations with meds or
> inhailers-thus it is not our problem!
>
>
> For instance, my brother is very very allergic to cats and to perfumes... 
> he
> carries antihistimine pills and an inhailer because as a plumber he has to
> go to work in peoples homes who have cats and wear fragrances...air
> fresheners et...  he learned years ago, that without his meds his eyes
> swell, he cant breath and may need the emergency room.  so HE IS 
> RESPONSABLE
> TO PROTECT HIMSELF!  Not tell all his customers they must get their cats
> out, clean their homes, and air it all out without chemicals so he can
> install a toilet!!!
>
> so why shouldnt they who have allergies who must fly carry their medicines
> and be pro active rather than try to make the citizens of a free country
> like ours who use s.a. jump thru hoops or try to pass rules where we cant
> use our animals????
>
> If my brother has to fly on the plane, he doesnt go around the plane like 
> a
> victim of "her perfume" or " his aftershave" demanding these folks go wash
> off their sents!!! No , he takes his medicine before he boards!
>
> this whole allergy thing is just another excuse by the selfish public to
> deny the disabled their rights to use whatever mobility /functioning aids
> they can to live an independent and peacefull life...
>
> come on, who needs all this attention (neg. attention) every time we want 
> to
> fly, go out to eat et... I prefer to be left the heck alone when im 
> eating,
> not have some know it all who never read the ada, tell me I cant have my 
> dog
> , or need certification papers or some other nauseating harrasment!
>
> ok, im done now-  ah...............thats righ, breathe!
>
> oh btw, yesterday My Service dog and I enjoyed a beatuful birthday dinner
> out - since we had over a foot of snow, no one was in the restarant except
> us =up untill the end of the meal...= A which time some customer walked in
> to be seated behind the hostess and says oh... look the puppy -yeckity
> yeckity yeckity as she goes right over and gets my dog all stired up, pets
> ontop of the "service dog do not pet"
> badge on the top of the vest!!!  So of course, i had to say, mam please
> dont- the dog is working, your attention to her can be dangerous to me as
> she can not do her job if you are interfearing by petting, talking and
> playing with her... oh well most of the dinner was peacefull! lol
>
> respectfully
> bunny
>
> <<Well, Becca:The answer is that, as Mike pointed out, the needs of the
> disabled are notconsidered as important as those of pretty much anyone,
> includingallergy-sufferers.Despite my sarcasm in a previous post, I can
> understand that allergies canbe severe or unpleasant. It seems to me,
> though, that the user of a serviceanimal need not, nor should he be, the 
> one
> required to make theaccommodation. Plus allergies aren't considered,
> legally, a disability.Most allergy-sufferers I know, including my sister,
> wouldn't want themselvesconsidered disabled as it might limit their choice
> of work, etc.  Dan >>
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