[nagdu] allergies v. service animals

[Pickrell, Rebecca M (IT)]

Know too that your church has an organizational higharacy and you can
probably tell the higher-ups what's going on, same as you would if the
pastor was mishandling money or doing something inappropriate with a
parisohner. 
And yeah, Linda is right, why is your husband still playing the organ at
a church that treated his wife so badly? 
No wonder you're bitter having to crawl into bed next to that every
night. 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:58 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals

Hi Charlene,
You know what - get a new church and also get your husband to leave
playing the organ there and he go to your new church with you.

I didn't go to church for YEARS before I found the one I attend now.  I
go to Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in San Diego.  There are several of
us with guide dogs and nobody bats an eye.  Nine years ago, when I
joined Good Shepherd, the pastor even blessed and welcomed our dogs
there!  They are members who guide us around!  We even have our own
relief area for the dogs.

Our church has a very friendly congregation and have always been
welcoming to blind and disabled people.  I take my turn in serving
donuts and coffee and I served on the Council.  I left and another blind
woman came on Council as an Elder.  Because of the prohibitive cost, we
are unable to provide full wheelchair access - built in 1930 and
rennovated in the 1950s.  Way before the ADA. We do have a ramp to allow
access to the sanctuary and the office. 
In the Parish House, we have limited access. We have an electric chair
that goes up the steps but you have to get out of your wheelchair to do
this. 
But the wheelchair using people at our church can transfer out and ride
the chairlift up. For us blind, we have large print and Braille
bulletins - we pay a blind transcriptionist to do this.

I really hate the hypocracy of alot of church people - like your
congregation.  UGHHH!!!  They don't seem to "get it" that Jesus would
welcome the guide dogs!

Cheers,

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals


> Oh boy, you guys, you've just done my heart good with this
discussion!!!
>
> When people where I go to church found out I was getting a guide dog, 
> there
> were some who made me feel a whole lot less than welcome.  The
pastor's 
> wife
> asked me: "You're not going to bring that dog to church are you?" I
said 
> yes
> I am and she pointed out about the people who have allergies, you
know. 
> And
> why did I have to bring it to church. I finally said I could go
elsewhere 
> if
> that would be better!  That kind of stopped that particular
conversation,
> but others had their digs, too.  Finally, we were sent an e-mail by
the
> person who helps find transportation who proceeded to tell us that now

> we'd
> made it just too difficult for her to find us a ride so we could just
take
> care of it ourselves from now on and why did we have to bring that dog

> since
> you know there are people including "the writer of the e-mail) who
have
> allergies, you know! And on and on!  Now, don't you think it was 
> interesting
> that for a couple of years, this lawyer friend of the pastor's wife
could
> bring her stupid little dog in a bag because the dog had separation 
> anxiety
> so she couldn't leave it home? Nobody gave her a hard time but rolled
out
> the red carpet because I guess she wasn't quite the second-class
citezen
> like me.  My husband still goes back evenings to play the organ oon 
> Sundays,
> but I have a hard time with it and don't show up there very often.
We've
> found a much better place to go Sunday mornings.  They're so
sheltered, 
> they
> can't even stand having an interpreter there if someone deaf attends
the
> church.  It's pitiful that's how the attitude is in some of our
churches. 
> I
> know that some of that congregation don't feel the same way, but
somehow,
> it's just not very welcoming to know that there are enough who do and
> they're the ones that don't waste any time making their views known, 
> either.
> Funny thing, too, one evening at a potluck, someone sat me down by one
of
> the complainers and before I could even turn around to say hello they
were
> gone.  And yet, that person is such a pillar in the church, whatever!
>
> Sorry guys, but guess you got my venting, but it feels good to share
it 
> and
> get it out!
>
> Charlene
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:25 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals
>
> Bunny,
>
> Well put!  I've attempted to express the same thing on the issue a
fuew
> times but end up getting super snarly and have to give it up.  /smile/

> Like
> you, I know people who take responsibility for their own allergies and
> asthma, as well as for MCS and the like.  But I know too many others
who
> honestly expect everyone around them, including the general public, to
go
> through enormous efforts so the allergy-sufferer won't have to take a
> pill...  The same principle, IMO, applies to people with dog phobias.
> Xanax, anyone?  Every heard of a shrink?  /smile/  If you would prefer
to
> move from the priority seating area (as they call it here) where you 
> didn't
> belong in the first place without a fuss, then you are welcome to deal

> with
> your fears and anxieties as you see fit, and I respect your decision. 
> Just
> don't expect me to deal with them, thank you.  I had this happen once,

> only
> the person across the aisle spent much of the bus ride telling me that
the
> person I heard moving away was afraid of my dog, didn't I think?  She
got
> off where I did and needed our guidance to the train, so had plenty of
> opportunity to repeat herself on the subject.  /lol/  Since it wasn't
any 
> of
> her business, I just repeated nonchalantly that I didn't know, perhaps
it
> was so, but since the other woman moved away from the dog it was a 
> nonissue
> as far as I could tell.  /lol/  I gave a more coherent, informative
answer
> the first time she brought it up, of course; but sometimes people just

> won't
> let things go, so the best one can do is repeatedly refuse to give
them 
> what
> they want (I couldn't tell and didn't care, frankly).  Has anyone ever
> noticed that dogs and horses, even cats, get the reward refusal aspect
of
> operant conditioning far more quickly than supposedly intelligent
humans?
> /snotty smile/  I prefer to deal more directly and assertively,
frankly, 
> but
> I have discovered in my new life as a blind person that it doesn't
seem to
> work as well with some people for some reason.  If they won't back off

> when
> asked firmly and reasonably, I've stopped wasting my energy on giving
them 
> a
> reaction.  Sigh.
>
> Back to the subject.  A majority of our dogs' rearing and training
goes to
> ensuring that the working guide will be able to go into any human 
> situation
> with manners above reproach at all times.  We're taught to maintain
> exceptional grooming and health standards to ensure our dogs are fit
to go
> into restaurants and grocery stores.  Guide dogs schools have, for a 
> number
> of years, been working with various hypo-allergenic breeds to address
the
> issue of allergies and asthma, not only for blind allergy-sufferers,
but
> also for the sake of allergic family members, etc.  And, to throw in 
> phobias
> again, the majority of our dogs are specifically bred to be
nonaggressive
> from the get-go, while every aspect of their socialization and
training is
> designed to reinforce their lack of aggression.  The owner-trainers I
know
> all test their prospects for aggression before anything else and are
ready
> to retire a dog in a heartbeat if it shows aggression at any time
during 
> the
> training process.  I had a scare that way during convention, even
though 
> my
> youngster had never shown the least sign before.  Further observation
back
> in our natural habitat and as we settled into a new home with another
dog,
> who can be aggressive, showed that Mitzi was still the peace-loving
soul
> she's always been, if a sometimes very snotty soul.  Thank heavens I
was
> able to address the behavior effectively.  I haven't had a chance to
see 
> if
> it recurs in the presence of other guide dogs yet, but at least I know
I 
> can
> deal with it at the first sign.  Before it gets out of hand.  Live and
> learn.
>
> The point being that we take extraordinary efforts to avoid any
negative
> impact on the public from our dogs before we ever put on the harness
and
> head out the door.  We just accept that this is going to be a natural
part
> of our lifestyle and a significant chunk of our daily schedules -- not
to
> mention our budgets! -- as part of the package that falls under the 
> heading
> "guide dog user."  So, no, we should not have to put up with being
hassled
> or interfered with or to have to jump through hoops because others
won't
> take responsibility for their own issues.  Now to convince those folks
who
> simply can't grasp that simple concept...
>
> But that's why we organize and lobby and work collectively to address
> individual instances legally and discuss ways to deal with the hassles
> proactively yet positively (it would be more satisfying to bite people
> sometimes; metaphorically, or course) without giving up our
self-respect 
> and
> independence by letting others infringe on our rights by just taking
it so
> people won't think we're not nice, non-uppity blind people...
>
> It's always great to hear other guide dog users' experiences and their
> responses to them, along with the discussions about the various points
of
> view on one should or should not, along with how one actualy does at
the
> time (not always the same thing; at least, not for me!).  And it's
also 
> nice
> to have a forum to discuss my own learning progress with people who 
> actually
> understand the issues.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Bunny Davidson
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:07 AM
> To: National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals
>
>
> HI all,
>
> It is my opinion that there are those among the general public who
feel &
> express that their needs superseed the needs of anyone in the minority
-be
> it anyone they consider not as good as them- like race, sex,
education,
> sight, mobility, hearing, whatever- there is a sense of superiority
and
> entitlement that abounds in our society...
>
> this is why our goverment had to make laws saying discrimination is 
> illegal
> in the first place!  yet with laws and laws you still cant legislate
> selfishness and piosness in people.
>
> As for the airline dealing (or NOT) with pets, service animals and 
> passenger
> sensitivity issues... It is my opinion that a person with a service
dog
> should not have to jump thru hoops to claim their seat on the plane-
no
> prior notice should be required from the disabled with service
animals, 
> and
> anyone on plane who has a non lethal or non disability condition who
> complains or wants to make a commotion about the service dog... should
be
> given the option of moving their seat if possable, or being quiet - it
is 
> my
> opinion anyone with allergies or asma should not go to confined places
> without their meidications, inhailers et... unfortunatley we as
disabled
> needing service animals can not remidy our situations with meds or
> inhailers-thus it is not our problem!
>
>
> For instance, my brother is very very allergic to cats and to
perfumes... 
> he
> carries antihistimine pills and an inhailer because as a plumber he
has to
> go to work in peoples homes who have cats and wear fragrances...air
> fresheners et...  he learned years ago, that without his meds his eyes
> swell, he cant breath and may need the emergency room.  so HE IS 
> RESPONSABLE
> TO PROTECT HIMSELF!  Not tell all his customers they must get their
cats
> out, clean their homes, and air it all out without chemicals so he can
> install a toilet!!!
>
> so why shouldnt they who have allergies who must fly carry their
medicines
> and be pro active rather than try to make the citizens of a free
country
> like ours who use s.a. jump thru hoops or try to pass rules where we
cant
> use our animals????
>
> If my brother has to fly on the plane, he doesnt go around the plane
like 
> a
> victim of "her perfume" or " his aftershave" demanding these folks go
wash
> off their sents!!! No , he takes his medicine before he boards!
>
> this whole allergy thing is just another excuse by the selfish public
to
> deny the disabled their rights to use whatever mobility /functioning
aids
> they can to live an independent and peacefull life...
>
> come on, who needs all this attention (neg. attention) every time we
want 
> to
> fly, go out to eat et... I prefer to be left the heck alone when im 
> eating,
> not have some know it all who never read the ada, tell me I cant have
my 
> dog
> , or need certification papers or some other nauseating harrasment!
>
> ok, im done now-  ah...............thats righ, breathe!
>
> oh btw, yesterday My Service dog and I enjoyed a beatuful birthday
dinner
> out - since we had over a foot of snow, no one was in the restarant
except
> us =up untill the end of the meal...= A which time some customer
walked in
> to be seated behind the hostess and says oh... look the puppy -yeckity
> yeckity yeckity as she goes right over and gets my dog all stired up,
pets
> ontop of the "service dog do not pet"
> badge on the top of the vest!!!  So of course, i had to say, mam
please
> dont- the dog is working, your attention to her can be dangerous to me
as
> she can not do her job if you are interfearing by petting, talking and
> playing with her... oh well most of the dinner was peacefull! lol
>
> respectfully
> bunny
>
> <<Well, Becca:The answer is that, as Mike pointed out, the needs of
the
> disabled are notconsidered as important as those of pretty much
anyone,
> includingallergy-sufferers.Despite my sarcasm in a previous post, I
can
> understand that allergies canbe severe or unpleasant. It seems to me,
> though, that the user of a serviceanimal need not, nor should he be,
the 
> one
> required to make theaccommodation. Plus allergies aren't considered,
> legally, a disability.Most allergy-sufferers I know, including my
sister,
> wouldn't want themselvesconsidered disabled as it might limit their
choice
> of work, etc.  Dan >>
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