[nagdu] allergies v. service animals

[lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com]

Hi Charlene,
You know what - get a new church and also get your husband to leave playing 
the organ there and he go to your new church with you.

I didn't go to church for YEARS before I found the one I attend now.  I go 
to Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in San Diego.  There are several of us with 
guide dogs and nobody bats an eye.  Nine years ago, when I joined Good 
Shepherd, the pastor even blessed and welcomed our dogs there!  They are 
members who guide us around!  We even have our own relief area for the dogs.

Our church has a very friendly congregation and have always been welcoming 
to blind and disabled people.  I take my turn in serving donuts and coffee 
and I served on the Council.  I left and another blind woman came on Council 
as an Elder.  Because of the prohibitive cost, we are unable to provide full 
wheelchair access - built in 1930 and rennovated in the 1950s.  Way before 
the ADA. We do have a ramp to allow access to the sanctuary and the office. 
In the Parish House, we have limited access. We have an electric chair that 
goes up the steps but you have to get out of your wheelchair to do this. 
But the wheelchair using people at our church can transfer out and ride the 
chairlift up. For us blind, we have large print and Braille bulletins - we 
pay a blind transcriptionist to do this.

I really hate the hypocracy of alot of church people - like your 
congregation.  UGHHH!!!  They don't seem to "get it" that Jesus would 
welcome the guide dogs!

Cheers,

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals


> Oh boy, you guys, you've just done my heart good with this discussion!!!
>
> When people where I go to church found out I was getting a guide dog, 
> there
> were some who made me feel a whole lot less than welcome.  The pastor's 
> wife
> asked me: "You're not going to bring that dog to church are you?" I said 
> yes
> I am and she pointed out about the people who have allergies, you know. 
> And
> why did I have to bring it to church. I finally said I could go elsewhere 
> if
> that would be better!  That kind of stopped that particular conversation,
> but others had their digs, too.  Finally, we were sent an e-mail by the
> person who helps find transportation who proceeded to tell us that now 
> we'd
> made it just too difficult for her to find us a ride so we could just take
> care of it ourselves from now on and why did we have to bring that dog 
> since
> you know there are people including "the writer of the e-mail) who have
> allergies, you know! And on and on!  Now, don't you think it was 
> interesting
> that for a couple of years, this lawyer friend of the pastor's wife could
> bring her stupid little dog in a bag because the dog had separation 
> anxiety
> so she couldn't leave it home? Nobody gave her a hard time but rolled out
> the red carpet because I guess she wasn't quite the second-class citezen
> like me.  My husband still goes back evenings to play the organ oon 
> Sundays,
> but I have a hard time with it and don't show up there very often.  We've
> found a much better place to go Sunday mornings.  They're so sheltered, 
> they
> can't even stand having an interpreter there if someone deaf attends the
> church.  It's pitiful that's how the attitude is in some of our churches. 
> I
> know that some of that congregation don't feel the same way, but somehow,
> it's just not very welcoming to know that there are enough who do and
> they're the ones that don't waste any time making their views known, 
> either.
> Funny thing, too, one evening at a potluck, someone sat me down by one of
> the complainers and before I could even turn around to say hello they were
> gone.  And yet, that person is such a pillar in the church, whatever!
>
> Sorry guys, but guess you got my venting, but it feels good to share it 
> and
> get it out!
>
> Charlene
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:25 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals
>
> Bunny,
>
> Well put!  I've attempted to express the same thing on the issue a fuew
> times but end up getting super snarly and have to give it up.  /smile/ 
> Like
> you, I know people who take responsibility for their own allergies and
> asthma, as well as for MCS and the like.  But I know too many others who
> honestly expect everyone around them, including the general public, to go
> through enormous efforts so the allergy-sufferer won't have to take a
> pill...  The same principle, IMO, applies to people with dog phobias.
> Xanax, anyone?  Every heard of a shrink?  /smile/  If you would prefer to
> move from the priority seating area (as they call it here) where you 
> didn't
> belong in the first place without a fuss, then you are welcome to deal 
> with
> your fears and anxieties as you see fit, and I respect your decision. 
> Just
> don't expect me to deal with them, thank you.  I had this happen once, 
> only
> the person across the aisle spent much of the bus ride telling me that the
> person I heard moving away was afraid of my dog, didn't I think?  She got
> off where I did and needed our guidance to the train, so had plenty of
> opportunity to repeat herself on the subject.  /lol/  Since it wasn't any 
> of
> her business, I just repeated nonchalantly that I didn't know, perhaps it
> was so, but since the other woman moved away from the dog it was a 
> nonissue
> as far as I could tell.  /lol/  I gave a more coherent, informative answer
> the first time she brought it up, of course; but sometimes people just 
> won't
> let things go, so the best one can do is repeatedly refuse to give them 
> what
> they want (I couldn't tell and didn't care, frankly).  Has anyone ever
> noticed that dogs and horses, even cats, get the reward refusal aspect of
> operant conditioning far more quickly than supposedly intelligent humans?
> /snotty smile/  I prefer to deal more directly and assertively, frankly, 
> but
> I have discovered in my new life as a blind person that it doesn't seem to
> work as well with some people for some reason.  If they won't back off 
> when
> asked firmly and reasonably, I've stopped wasting my energy on giving them 
> a
> reaction.  Sigh.
>
> Back to the subject.  A majority of our dogs' rearing and training goes to
> ensuring that the working guide will be able to go into any human 
> situation
> with manners above reproach at all times.  We're taught to maintain
> exceptional grooming and health standards to ensure our dogs are fit to go
> into restaurants and grocery stores.  Guide dogs schools have, for a 
> number
> of years, been working with various hypo-allergenic breeds to address the
> issue of allergies and asthma, not only for blind allergy-sufferers, but
> also for the sake of allergic family members, etc.  And, to throw in 
> phobias
> again, the majority of our dogs are specifically bred to be nonaggressive
> from the get-go, while every aspect of their socialization and training is
> designed to reinforce their lack of aggression.  The owner-trainers I know
> all test their prospects for aggression before anything else and are ready
> to retire a dog in a heartbeat if it shows aggression at any time during 
> the
> training process.  I had a scare that way during convention, even though 
> my
> youngster had never shown the least sign before.  Further observation back
> in our natural habitat and as we settled into a new home with another dog,
> who can be aggressive, showed that Mitzi was still the peace-loving soul
> she's always been, if a sometimes very snotty soul.  Thank heavens I was
> able to address the behavior effectively.  I haven't had a chance to see 
> if
> it recurs in the presence of other guide dogs yet, but at least I know I 
> can
> deal with it at the first sign.  Before it gets out of hand.  Live and
> learn.
>
> The point being that we take extraordinary efforts to avoid any negative
> impact on the public from our dogs before we ever put on the harness and
> head out the door.  We just accept that this is going to be a natural part
> of our lifestyle and a significant chunk of our daily schedules -- not to
> mention our budgets! -- as part of the package that falls under the 
> heading
> "guide dog user."  So, no, we should not have to put up with being hassled
> or interfered with or to have to jump through hoops because others won't
> take responsibility for their own issues.  Now to convince those folks who
> simply can't grasp that simple concept...
>
> But that's why we organize and lobby and work collectively to address
> individual instances legally and discuss ways to deal with the hassles
> proactively yet positively (it would be more satisfying to bite people
> sometimes; metaphorically, or course) without giving up our self-respect 
> and
> independence by letting others infringe on our rights by just taking it so
> people won't think we're not nice, non-uppity blind people...
>
> It's always great to hear other guide dog users' experiences and their
> responses to them, along with the discussions about the various points of
> view on one should or should not, along with how one actualy does at the
> time (not always the same thing; at least, not for me!).  And it's also 
> nice
> to have a forum to discuss my own learning progress with people who 
> actually
> understand the issues.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Bunny Davidson
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:07 AM
> To: National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] allergies v. service animals
>
>
> HI all,
>
> It is my opinion that there are those among the general public who feel &
> express that their needs superseed the needs of anyone in the minority -be
> it anyone they consider not as good as them- like race, sex, education,
> sight, mobility, hearing, whatever- there is a sense of superiority and
> entitlement that abounds in our society...
>
> this is why our goverment had to make laws saying discrimination is 
> illegal
> in the first place!  yet with laws and laws you still cant legislate
> selfishness and piosness in people.
>
> As for the airline dealing (or NOT) with pets, service animals and 
> passenger
> sensitivity issues... It is my opinion that a person with a service dog
> should not have to jump thru hoops to claim their seat on the plane- no
> prior notice should be required from the disabled with service animals, 
> and
> anyone on plane who has a non lethal or non disability condition who
> complains or wants to make a commotion about the service dog... should be
> given the option of moving their seat if possable, or being quiet - it is 
> my
> opinion anyone with allergies or asma should not go to confined places
> without their meidications, inhailers et... unfortunatley we as disabled
> needing service animals can not remidy our situations with meds or
> inhailers-thus it is not our problem!
>
>
> For instance, my brother is very very allergic to cats and to perfumes... 
> he
> carries antihistimine pills and an inhailer because as a plumber he has to
> go to work in peoples homes who have cats and wear fragrances...air
> fresheners et...  he learned years ago, that without his meds his eyes
> swell, he cant breath and may need the emergency room.  so HE IS 
> RESPONSABLE
> TO PROTECT HIMSELF!  Not tell all his customers they must get their cats
> out, clean their homes, and air it all out without chemicals so he can
> install a toilet!!!
>
> so why shouldnt they who have allergies who must fly carry their medicines
> and be pro active rather than try to make the citizens of a free country
> like ours who use s.a. jump thru hoops or try to pass rules where we cant
> use our animals????
>
> If my brother has to fly on the plane, he doesnt go around the plane like 
> a
> victim of "her perfume" or " his aftershave" demanding these folks go wash
> off their sents!!! No , he takes his medicine before he boards!
>
> this whole allergy thing is just another excuse by the selfish public to
> deny the disabled their rights to use whatever mobility /functioning aids
> they can to live an independent and peacefull life...
>
> come on, who needs all this attention (neg. attention) every time we want 
> to
> fly, go out to eat et... I prefer to be left the heck alone when im 
> eating,
> not have some know it all who never read the ada, tell me I cant have my 
> dog
> , or need certification papers or some other nauseating harrasment!
>
> ok, im done now-  ah...............thats righ, breathe!
>
> oh btw, yesterday My Service dog and I enjoyed a beatuful birthday dinner
> out - since we had over a foot of snow, no one was in the restarant except
> us =up untill the end of the meal...= A which time some customer walked in
> to be seated behind the hostess and says oh... look the puppy -yeckity
> yeckity yeckity as she goes right over and gets my dog all stired up, pets
> ontop of the "service dog do not pet"
> badge on the top of the vest!!!  So of course, i had to say, mam please
> dont- the dog is working, your attention to her can be dangerous to me as
> she can not do her job if you are interfearing by petting, talking and
> playing with her... oh well most of the dinner was peacefull! lol
>
> respectfully
> bunny
>
> <<Well, Becca:The answer is that, as Mike pointed out, the needs of the
> disabled are notconsidered as important as those of pretty much anyone,
> includingallergy-sufferers.Despite my sarcasm in a previous post, I can
> understand that allergies canbe severe or unpleasant. It seems to me,
> though, that the user of a serviceanimal need not, nor should he be, the 
> one
> required to make theaccommodation. Plus allergies aren't considered,
> legally, a disability.Most allergy-sufferers I know, including my sister,
> wouldn't want themselvesconsidered disabled as it might limit their choice
> of work, etc.  Dan >>
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