[nagdu] when is a guide not a guide

Sun Jun 14 10:29:37 UTC 2009

Ann,
    In my unprofessional opinion, it is not the insurance companies who make 
these rules that limit our access; rather, it is the entity that uses the 
insurance company as a scapegoat to deny our access. The principle of 
supremacy is that no body may make a law or policy that is in conflict with 
a higher authority. This includes not only lower levels of governments, but 
companies, as well. An insurance company cannot make a policy or rule that 
is in conflict with the law unless there is actuarial evidence to support 
such a policy. For instance, there is evidence that males under the age of 
25 are more likely to be involved in car crashes than other groups. For this 
reason, such males are charged more for their auto insurance.
    If I were asked to sign a special release, I would refuse to do so. If 
signing the form were to continue to be a prerequisite for participating in 
a service or benefit, I would ask that this be so stated on the release and 
that I get a copy of the release. I would then use this copy as evidence 
that I was discriminated against when filing my complaint with the DOJ.

Fraternally,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] when is a guide not a guide


> Hi, All,
>
> Sorry, in my previous message, I inadvertently replied to the wrong list. 
> But perhaps the legal minds here would be able to address the question of 
> insurance companies making rules which limit our access to public places 
> with our assistance animals or just on the basis of our blindness.
>
> Thanks,
> Ann
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Ann Edie
>  To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:18 PM
>  Subject: Re: when is a guide not a guide
>
>
>  It really pushes my buttons when insurance companies get to decide what a 
> person can or cannot do in this country!  Last I heard, it was Congress 
> which legislates in the USA.
>
>  I have certainly had run-ins with insurance companies before. like when I 
> want to go horseback riding at a place, and they tell me that I have to be 
> on a lead rope, or I can't ride at all, or I have to sign a different 
> release form--all because I am a member of a minority, a person with a 
> disability.  It's no different, in my opinion, and perhaps even worse, 
> than when the restaurant tells someone they can't enter the restaurant 
> with a guide dog because the Health Department won't allow it, or when a 
> taxi driver tells someone he can't take them in his cab because his 
> religion says dogs are unclean.  As far as I know, it is Congress that 
> sets Civil Rights policy in this country, and all these other "authorities 
> are just talking through their hats.
>
>  I hope the legal minds on this list can clarify this point.
>
>  Best,
>  Ann
>
>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>    Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:18 PM
>    Subject: RE: when is a guide not a guide
>
>
>
>
>
>    Jenine, each year as a hospice volunteer (and mia is one also) I need 
> to
>    present certification that she has had her rabies shots. I was told 
> that
>    this is required of any dog going into the building at
>
>    The request of the insurance company.
>
>    From: GDUI-Friends at yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:GDUI-Friends at yahoogroups.com] On
>    Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
>    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:23 AM
>    To: 'Lenny McHugh'; 'gdui-friends'
>    Subject: RE: [GDUI-Friends] when is a guide not a guide
>
>    Lenny,
>
>    Not to argue here as your own personal choices as to your dog's status 
> and
>    how you wished to handle this situation are just that, but legally, 
> here's
>    what I know.
>
>    Your dog, if you state that it is a service animal, is a service animal 
> all
>    the time, regardless of whether you are holding its harness handle, or 
> even
>    whether it is wearing a harness or not. Under the ADA, and this was
>    explained to us in a presentation at GDUI oh, nearly 10 years ago now, 
> that
>    even if your dog is walking at heel and you are using sighted guide, 
> that
>    dog is still a service animal and you are legally entitled to all 
> rights and
>    privileges due someone accompanied by said service animal.
>
>    Someone else could come along wishing access to this facility and 
> legally
>    she could certainly be challenged even if the dog was taken out of 
> harness.
>    The reason for this is that there is an assumption, rightly or wrongly, 
> that
>    people who use service animals do take better care of them an insure 
> that
>    all their vaccines are current. It's why we don't have to have health
>    certificates when we fly in the continental US.
>
>    Now, that said, there may be some provision in Pennsylvania law that
>    addresses service animals in these types of facilities, under the
>    requirement to see a current Rabies vaccine certificate.
>
>    I wonder, would a tag due? I don't normally carry my dog's Rabies
>    certificate with me. Maybe I should?
>
>    I can understand if the facility is closed to the public and you must 
> make
>    an appointment to come in.
>
>    This is the case for many guide dog school campuses. Only small parts 
> are
>    open to the public and if you wish to bring even a service animal into 
> the
>    parts not open to the public and you make an appointment, the school 
> can't
>    deny you but they can have certain qualifications you need to follow. 
> These
>    might include providing proof of vaccination.
>
>    So, though I understand your position, legally, someone could argue 
> just the
>    opposite.
>
>    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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